Buying Advice Is it possible to go too big?

[kenmac]

2wd vs 4wd - Someone taught me a trick - go in with 2wd, if you get stuck, you can use 4wd to get out. If you get REALLY stuck, lock the diff (lever on the floor on my Kubota) and that will do it. If you get REALLY REALLY stuck, sometimes using the FEL as a "jack" will free you. If that fails, yell for help.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

If I'm working my mx5100, I'm always in 4wd. If I get stuck and can't free myself ( which I have many times) I go get the 105 hp tractor and lift the 5100 out.

I have never gotten my 105 stuck, But A friend up the road has the same tractor, and he has gotten his stuck. It took my 105 and another friends 105 to get him out !

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Heck, I wasn't looking for a 105 hp tractor. I already had a 50 HP tractor. I was just looking for about a 75 hp tractor.
Since I wasn't buying new to stay away from emissions, I bought my 105 HP cheaper than I could buy used a 70 HP tractor. It was a no brainer for me !

I like my big tractor as well and use it for hay and putting in winter rye and mowing pastures but I still use my little tractor a good bit mostly in tight places and or since it has R4 industrial tires around the house and yard, it does way less damage than my larger tractor with Ag tires.My dad row crop farmed vegetables as well as corn and soybeans so I started on an open station JD 2840 and a cab JD 4040 both 85 to 100 HP tractors, he was a real farmer and I could always rely on him to have the answers when I had the questions, I'm about half as good as he was, but he started with a mule as a boy and later graduated to a Farmall, said he got a lot more work done with the Farmall than the mule and it got even better with the bigger John Deere's but the point is most people don't start out big , most start out small usually due to budgetary reasons and work their way up, I wouldn't take a gold monkey for either one of my tractors, they both have their place.

 

[kenmac]

Oh, Don't get me wrong. I started small too. 1st tractor Ferguson TO20. 2nd. tractor Yanmar 35hp , third tractor mx5100, third the CX105.
I moved up each time.
But had I started with a 75 HP tractor to begin with. I probably wouldn't have bought the 105 either, because that 75 HP would have pulled the heavy disc, seed drill, baler, got that load in the bucket /hay spear just a little higher, etc, and performed many other task I have done around here

 

[SamO]

Hello folks. Moving to a 58 acre property soon from the 'burbs (also escaping CA, but that is a different discussion) and am looking into getting my first tractor. About 28 acres of the land is previously farmed acreage that I want to keep knocked down and tamed by semi regular mowing/bush hogging. I have a full time job that is not farming and have no intention of farming the land myself, at least in the near future. Leasing some of the land to someone else to farm is something I want to look more in to. The rest of the land is very thick vegetation and trees. Solid wall of green type situation.

Besides the previously mentioned 28 acres of maintenance taming, over the next few years I want to potentially relocate, and certainly maintain, the gravel driveway into the property which is about 1500', create a gravel "road" to the more separated farm area for lessees to access that 15ish acres which will be at least another 1500', fell some timber and clear brush to make trails to the more wooded areas, potentially light grading for a future storage structure and swing set, and support of some heavier/specialized rented machinery for constructing a private shooting range with berm backstops in the back woods. Near the house I'd like to set up a sizable garden plot for the wife and kids to tool around in and some tree planting around the new driveway for future privacy.

My question is this: Should I start with a "learner size"? I've never owned or driven a tractor but from research I've seen that a fairly sizable machine would be ideal for my needs/wants. I've also gotten my heart set on a buddy seat so in a few years when I've learned to drive the thing and my very young children are a tiny bit older they can ride with dad. I think those moments will be priceless. I have no brand loyalty and I've yet to see how dealers around me treat their customers, which I've heard is a huge consideration. I've also got my heart set on a cab because frankly I think it will make chores like the mowing enjoyable instead of potential misery.

The machines I've been interested in thus far are the kubota m4d-071 and the tym 1104 and I'm mostly considering new instead of used. I'm slowly working my way though the other colors looking for other models of weight, power, and size to fit my needs but I've gotten a bit nervous about my lack of experience and piloting something this large and expensive without ever even sitting in a drivers seat. Any thoughts? Am I getting in over my head with machines this big? The terrain around my house is about as flat as a pancake which is at least in my favor and because I have a full time gig elsewhere, my off time, which I'm hoping a machine this size will save some of, is very valuable and more time I can spend with my young kids. Thanks for your help and looking forward to getting to know you all.

Paul, DO NOT START with a beginner size unless you like spending money on tractors. Figure out what you think you need, I can't help you with that, that buy 1 size larger as you will figure out a way to use the extra power quickly. Sam (CRNA)

 

[DieselBound]

Paul, DO NOT START with a beginner size unless you like spending money on tractors. Figure out what you think you need, I can't help you with that, that buy 1 size larger as you will figure out a way to use the extra power quickly. Sam (CRNA)

If he/we don't know what size a "beginner size" is then it's kind of hard to up-size it a notch, no? (my "beginner car was something insane, power wise; my "expert size" has become a lot less so, far less power)

Again, ground conditions matter a LOT. I get it that people have wide open spaces with firm ground and BIG tractors work well for them. But my take on the OP's situation is that he is not sure exactly what his property is like (expect a larger area that he's thinking he'll lease(?) out for haying(?)), in which case I'm having a hard time thinking that his actual working conditions match those for which a larger machine is required.

rScotty, what about an M59? (not sure why, but every time I see one I want one!)

 

[rogerneal]

A lot of information in all these posts for you to digest and think about. I have been driving tractors of all sizes since I was about 8 years old...way too young for the potential danger involved. But you have a lot to consider. Tractors are great tools and there is no one tractor is perfect in your situation, in my opinion. And budget/cost can't be ignored. My advice is to start with a 45-60 hp range 4WD, with loader, a 6 or 7 ft rear 3 pt HD blade (not box blade), a 3 pt carry-all platform (or small trailer) and a 6 to 8 foot shredder (shredder size depends on your terrain (flat/hilly), what you are cutting, and type of ground (sandy, clay, wet, dry).... This first tractor should be something big enough for maintaining your open land, your roads and fences, but still able to be used (safely) as needed for the near term in the tighter wooded areas . And within a 5 years, you will probably be adding a 2nd tractor... you can see that I have 4 tractors right now and about to add a 5th one. They range from 23 hp to 85 hp, 2WD and 4WD, FEL and not, subcompact, compact, utility and row crop. Each one is perfect for me for a their optimal range of capabilities when/as I need that across my much wider range of farming / forestry needs. I'm betting that you will find the same thing with your needs as they evolve and as you progress with your life on your new land. You'll probably be adding a larger tractor next for use in open land / farming / haying that you may progress into (needing bigger attachments / more hp), and/or the next one may be a smaller 32-38 HP compact tractor for more practical applications around the house and for use in the woods when set up with a FEL with grapple, a log splitter, and maybe a chipper for use in the woods. My hunch is that in 10 years you will have all 3 sizes/types of tractors, and will be happy that you did.

Brands...I've owed/run all the major ones over my 65 years. I've found that reliable models are more important than just plain brand. I'm mainly partial to John Deeres, but that is really because of the well known bullet-proof reliability history for specific model / year for each one that I have. I want to spend more of my time farming, and less time "wrenching".

Good luck with your new farm life adventures. And please heed the advice already given here bu others.....NEVER mix active PTO attachments and children on a tractor, whether on an open station or in a cab.

 

[IndyJay]

My advice is to start with a 45-60 hp range 4WD, with loader, a 6 or 7 ft rear 3 pt HD blade (not box blade), a 3 pt carry-all platform (or small trailer) and a 6 to 8 foot shredder (shredder size depends on your terrain (flat/hilly), what you are cutting, and type of ground (sandy, clay, wet, dry).... This first tractor should be something big enough for maintaining your open land, your roads and fences, but still able to be used (safely) as needed for the near term in the tighter wooded areas .

Considering your stated life/work balance goals, this is probably the best advice, leaning toward the 60HP end of the range. Hire someone to do the initial work on the road and trails using the appropriate heavier equipment. A 45-60 HP tractor will be well suited to maintain both, just maybe not to do the initial work. This approach would also leave more time for the fun stuff with the family with you and your wife's busy schedule.

 

[dflur]

Hello folks. Moving to a 58 acre property soon from the 'burbs (also escaping CA, but that is a different discussion) and am looking into getting my first tractor. About 28 acres of the land is previously farmed acreage that I want to keep knocked down and tamed by semi regular mowing/bush hogging. I have a full time job that is not farming and have no intention of farming the land myself, at least in the near future. Leasing some of the land to someone else to farm is something I want to look more in to. The rest of the land is very thick vegetation and trees. Solid wall of green type situation.

Besides the previously mentioned 28 acres of maintenance taming, over the next few years I want to potentially relocate, and certainly maintain, the gravel driveway into the property which is about 1500', create a gravel "road" to the more separated farm area for lessees to access that 15ish acres which will be at least another 1500', fell some timber and clear brush to make trails to the more wooded areas, potentially light grading for a future storage structure and swing set, and support of some heavier/specialized rented machinery for constructing a private shooting range with berm backstops in the back woods. Near the house I'd like to set up a sizable garden plot for the wife and kids to tool around in and some tree planting around the new driveway for future privacy.

My question is this: Should I start with a "learner size"? I've never owned or driven a tractor but from research I've seen that a fairly sizable machine would be ideal for my needs/wants. I've also gotten my heart set on a buddy seat so in a few years when I've learned to drive the thing and my very young children are a tiny bit older they can ride with dad. I think those moments will be priceless. I have no brand loyalty and I've yet to see how dealers around me treat their customers, which I've heard is a huge consideration. I've also got my heart set on a cab because frankly I think it will make chores like the mowing enjoyable instead of potential misery.

The machines I've been interested in thus far are the kubota m4d-071 and the tym 1104 and I'm mostly considering new instead of used. I'm slowly working my way though the other colors looking for other models of weight, power, and size to fit my needs but I've gotten a bit nervous about my lack of experience and piloting something this large and expensive without ever even sitting in a drivers seat. Any thoughts? Am I getting in over my head with machines this big? The terrain around my house is about as flat as a pancake which is at least in my favor and because I have a full time gig elsewhere, my off time, which I'm hoping a machine this size will save some of, is very valuable and more time I can spend with my young kids. Thanks for your help and looking forward to getting to know you all.

Your choices seembyo be real big for the needs you stated. Buying a tractor is like buying clothes. Something too big is as bad as something too small. They just don't fit right. A tractor too small may be weak and takes longer. One too big may be bulky, hard to manuever, uses more fuel, and the implements will be much more expensive.

Be sure you are buying what you need, not what you want. We seem to have a tendency to go cave man, wanting size and power, but that I'd a mistake. Get a machine that is suited for the job. It seems that you are looking forward to your kids riding your tractor with you. Sounds like fun, be careful though. Let that be a consideration in your choice, not a deciding factor.

 

[rScotty]

This is an interesting conversation!
It's not often that long time TBN members read a different slant the old subject of ""which tractor should I buy?"

My thinking is if the OP looks at which tractors the people posting own, he will see that many own several. Maybe that's partly acquisition fever, but a lot of it is because for the jobs for a around the property the "chore tractor" and a larger field and woodland tractor are used differently. Either can replace the other in a pinch.

The chore tractor is smaller i.e. in the 40/60 hp range, open station, easy on/off...and fits places the larger one won't. If it has to, the chore tractor can do pretty much the same work as the larger one, but does it more slowly. You will be surprised how often you use it.

The larger tractor won't fit as easily into tight places or maybe not at all. It has less visibility but more comfort. This one probably has a cab. It's the one you take to the end of the property when the weather isn't great. It will do most any work at a good clip and in comfort.

Up to you which one you get first. I'd get the smaller.
rScotty

 

[jjp8182]

Your choices seembyo be real big for the needs you stated. Buying a tractor is like buying clothes. Something too big is as bad as something too small. They just don't fit right. A tractor too small may be weak and takes longer. One too big may be bulky, hard to manuever, uses more fuel, and the implements will be much more expensive.

Be sure you are buying what you need, not what you want. We seem to have a tendency to go cave man, wanting size and power, but that I'd a mistake. Get a machine that is suited for the job. It seems that you are looking forward to your kids riding your tractor with you. Sounds like fun, be careful though. Let that be a consideration in your choice, not a deciding factor.

....and like clothes "too big" vs "too small" is very dependent on the person/situation.

On that note personal safety and discipline are also very dependent on the person. I've met more than a few children that are more responsible than many adults I've met (which isn't saying much in some cases) and the fact those children were responsible and safety minded as children was no accident.

Has lead me to the personal opinion that if a person is never taught how to deal with dangerous situations (and held accountable for mistakes or not thinking through the unique situation) -- or never taught to think and learn on their own -- while growing up there's a good chance they'll turn into the much older ( e.g. 20 to 60 year old) brats that engage in the sort of irresponsible "fun/thrill seeking" that can end up with a vehicle being wrapped around something that's off the road.

From what I've seen very, very few "accidents" are due to "bad luck" (or even "bad weather") but are frequently cause by bad judgment, lack of thought/awareness, or complacency (aka operator error). ...or less commonly (but every bit as dangerous) by the same sort of things done by someone(s) in the design, development or manufacturing process (which is the sort of thing that may end up as product recalls). .....which is something that generally becomes evident when looking at fleets' worth of mishap data.

While no one can be perfect (I was definitely chewed out more than a few times growing up for even attempting to do something "stupid"), the real problems arise from not trying/caring or even comprehending what should be done.

...and since what "should" be done is often far safer to learn from someone else (who is competent) than it is to learn for yourself someone has to take on the task of teaching children (and adults).

However, none of that replaces evaluating the specific tasks and conditions that exist when doing the actual work - nor knowing yourself and when you are (or aren't) in a suitable condition to perform the task. (more than a bit of the unintentional damage I've done on my property has been after I got to the point of being mentally tired, but pushed on because I felt a need to "just get done" .... a mindset that's well worth replacing).

BTW ....no matter how big the tractor, a tractor is a tractor it's neither a bulldozer nor a battering ram -- and even bulldozers aren't battering rams so ramming things is never a good idea since most machinery isn't designed to be a battering ram.

 

[Xfaxman]

I think that since the OP is not going to be farming, he does not need a farm tractor.

I speak from experience, this is me 76 years ago on grandpa's Case VAC:

Since then I have owned more tractors than I can remember. This is the last one, a MF 240D, before I went to a better for me machine:

The Toolcat with a small grapple:

 

[jjp8182]

Now that I've finished my mini-rant - I'll step off my soap box and add (on a different note) buying implements designed for use with both cat 1 & 2 linkages may help offset some of the costs of buying a somewhat "smaller" tractor as a potential starter.

A large/heavy frame tractor (even one with low Hp) can do more work than a similar hp tractor with a smaller/lighter frame. For example the difference in size between the various Kubota lines in the 30hp to 50-ish hp range ...or even the standard L vs. the Grand L's. The latter of which as "premuium" compacts offer some nice productivity features that could benefit a new operator (stall guard for example).

 

[Xfaxman]

The very stable, not tippy, Toolcat with the Monster Grapple:

 

[jjp8182]

I think that since the OP is not going to be farming, he does not need a farm tractor.

I speak from experience, this is me 76 years ago on grandpa's Case VAC:
View attachment 719397
View attachment 719398

Since then I have owned more tractors than I can remember. This is the last one, a MF 240D, before I went to a better for me machine:
View attachment 719399

The Toolcat with a small grapple:
View attachment 719400
View attachment 719401
View attachment 719402

...a very good reason to consider the tasks that need to be done, and the implements needed to perform them prior to looking at the powering machine (be it a tractor, Toolcat, telehandler, skid steer or anything else) in my opinion.....

Even if farming (or large scale gardening) is a potential task the size/type of tractor besd used for the task will vary ....have seriously considered adding a cultivating tractor (whether a newer version or older one) to the stable.

 

[Xfaxman]

More tasks the model 5610 Toolcat can do, 5x6 round bales:

Pulling the 22' gooseneck:

6' box blade on the front:

 

[smiley]

Sometimes adults have no sense about tractors either. I was unloading a 40' container (on a truck) using pallet forks, and someone walked between the tractor and the truck/container. He's an adult and should have known a LOT better, and he promptly and deservedly got yelled at right and proper. If my foot had slipped, he'd have been crippled, as a minimum. Ten minutes later HE DID IT AGAIN, and at that point I told him to either get and stay in the (bleeping) container (moving the pallets with a pallet jack) or GTF away and go have lunch or something . . .


Mike/Florida

You said a mouthful there Mike. The closest I ever came to injuring or killing someone was carrying an 8 ft. square manhole down into the excavation with a large loader that did not have very good brakes. I told everyone to stay completely clear off to the side until I sat it down. One guy decided he'd step in back and guide it into place I hollered at him and sat it down, yanked the shifter into reverse and hit both brakes at the same time. Unfortunately on that particular model when you step on the left brake it automatically de-clutches the machine (useful when loading trucks) so although the manhole was sitting on the ground, I was still attached to it and still rolling forward, it started tipping the manhole over toward the guy. Thankfully the guy had started jumping backward and only pinned his leg between the structure and bank. Luckily I realized the machine was declutched and let off on the brake so the machine jumped backward an straightened the manhole back up. He was fortunate that he only had a badly bruised leg which was no where near as his sore butt after I and a couple others dressed him down.

 

[mo1]

It is possible to get too large of a tractor. A tractor is too large if it can't maneuver well enough to easily get into the places where you are working. Having to make frequent multi-point turns to maneuver around gets very old very quickly.

I read the entire thread including the numerous tangents that got well off topic. The OP has 58 acres. Most of what he plans to do is run a rotary mower to keep the weeds knocked down on 28 acres of open land at most a few times per year, maintain a several hundred yard long gravel driveway, and take a few trees down on the 30 acres of woods. Appropriate implements for that would be a 6-8' rotary cutter, a 6' box blade, and a 6-8' straight blade. I would not recommend a drawn cutter unless your field is completely open and has no obstacles. I would not want to run one up and down a trail either. That pretty much limits you to a 6' cutter with a larger compact as they can't really handle an 8' 3 point cutter due to weight, you would have to get a full sized utility tractor to run one. Personally I would get the 6' cutter as it will take roughly 15 hours to cut the 28 acres of fields, which will be done at most a few times per year. A 6'er has one gearbox and costs $2-3k for a decent one, an 8' unit has three gearboxes and costs about five grand more. Unless the OP wants to run an 8' cutter, a larger compact such as a Deere 4 series or larger Kubota L/MX would work fine. I wouldn't recommend going larger than the smallest full-sized utility tractors (e.g. 3 cylinder Deere 5E, Kubota M60). I also wouldn't see much of a benefit of much more than about 50 HP here either. If you do get a full sized utility tractor, none of those tasks require a MFWD machine. MFWD is not needed for running a rotary cutter. A 2WD utility will also pull around a 6' box blade and overflow it without even knowing it's back there.

The full sized utility tractors will have a gear transmission, weight quite a bit more, often have fewer electronic features, generally be less expensive, and pull ground-engaging implements with more authority (due to the heavier weight.) However, an MFWD full sized utility tractor will have a turning radius at least half again as wide as a larger compact (or a 2WD full sized utility tractor, which is about as maneuverable as a large compact.) Often people will get the full sized tractor for property maintenance if they can drive a clutch, have enough area to maneuver the machine, and performance in pulling ground-engaging implements is important. People will often get the larger compacts if they can't drive a clutch, have small areas the tractor has to fit into, and don't do a lot of ground-engaging work. I personally prefer gear transmissions particularly for any sort of cutting/mowing and ground-engaging work. They are not hard to operate with a little practice and there is no issue with using one with a loader, even a regular manual without a hydraulic reverser.

Regardless of what size tractor you get, I recommend you get fluid-filled ag tires rather than industrial tires. The traction difference is quite noticeable.

Cabbed tractors are bulky and not a good fit for the woods as a result, I would advise the OP to get an open station tractor.

 

[Tbone07]

Yes it's absolutely possible to go too big. Our 135 acre property is ~65% wooded. In order to make it around the wooded portions with a 70+ HP tractor (like a John Deere 5 Series), I'd have to do a bunch more maintenance and make trails wider. So for now we're using a NH TC40D with an open station.

I sure would like a 70+ HP model when we have to brush hog all of our CRP plots. But they only need it once every 5 years. And we might contract that out to someone with a skid steer and large brush hog. It would sure save wear and tear on our tractors.

I wouldn't buy a brand new tractor if you weren't even sure what size you wanted. But that's up to you, if you have the money to spend then why not.

I think a 4 Series John Deere (or similar) would be a good start. Something like a 4052 or 4066

 

[DieselBound]

Like I mentioned previously, one has to actually know the ground that one is expecting to work/manipulate/maintain before knowing what tools one is going to be using. Although I didn't have the money for anything other than my B7800 I can look back and say that (except for not ballasting the rear wheels and not having a tooth bar) it managed to do what was necessary as an exploratory tractor. Unknowns isn't something that one ought rush into. Rushing in with a larger tractor can result in some really bad outcomes: broken stuff; stuck - I got stuck enough with my B7800 to know how to extricate myself; doing so usually required a come-a-long*; doing this with larger equipment is a lot more scary/unsafe.

* I even once was able to use some tires (no rims) under the front wheels such that the front wheels would grab and kind of lock on to the tires and use them as paddles. Can't imagine trying to do that with a big machine!

Paul (OP), scout out the property thoroughly. Watch what happens in different locations throughout the year. Only then will you know what sort of work you'll be able to do, and what time of year. Some folks advocate for Ag tires. If I had Ags I'd have gotten stuck worse and would have torn up the ground a lot more (my picture of ruts from a skidder should make that clear- note that those were made toward the END OF SUMMER! - any other time and it would have been a horrible mess). R4s and running in 2wd to the point of getting stuck and then switching to 4wd and getting the heck out is a strategy that has worked well for me.

 

[Xfaxman]

Some info on the Toolcat:

4 wheel steering:

Lift maxed out at 3,189 pounds with the engine idling.

There are many comments about not using a cab tractor in the woods, but those tractors won't fit through a 7' high overhead door like the Toolcat does: