Loader FL7 Loader on CT2025 Doesn’t Seem to Meet Spec

[Snowlan]

I just unloaded a snow blower from the delivery truck today, using the Bobcat pallet forks. The blower is in the 800+lb range, so with pallet call it 900lb. The center of gravity was within 600mm of the loader pins.

At truck deck height I was able to roll back enough and lifting was no problem. Once backed away from the truck and lowering the load to safe height I could not get the roll back beyond the amount shown in the picture. This resulted in the load not being level unless raising the load higher than desired for transport.

Considering rollback force is stated to be 1834lb 20” out from the pins at ground level, far exceeding the lift force, something seems wrong. Anyone else experienced anything similar with known weight or agree the dealer should be consulted? I don’t really want a warranty call to turn into a billable service call because they slap a gage on the hydraulics and say it’s in spec.

 

[Snowlan]

Looking at the manual again, I believe they made a mistake for the capacity at 59” off the ground. It makes absolutely no sense to have less capacity at 59” than at full height, the higher the loader goes, the worse the geometry for the boom cylinder.

Looking at the boom breakout force which is more relevant than lifting capacity since the issue was tested low to ground, the boom is quite close to the rollback in capacity, however the boom continued to lift effortlessly at higher heights demonstrating the reserve capacity with the given load.

Considering that the rollback force at 20” from pin is 1834lb, the entire 900lb I was lifting could have been near the tip of my 42” forks and there still should have been power enough to rollback. Am I missing something?

It’s strange that lifting wasn’t a problem, maybe this points to the loader valve rather than the system relief valve setting?

 

[fasttruck860]

I does look like the bulk of the weight was more forward than 20" in the above picture. The weight being shifted more will drastically decrease capacity. With that said I have the FL8 loader and I feel like it struggles with curl sometimes. I move some larger oak rounds with pallet forks and also grabbing logs with the grapple. When grabbing something in the 700-800 pound range I typically have limited curl. The grapple does weight about 400lbs though and larger pieces are about 24" from the pins.

I need to find some time to do a better test of the ct2040's lift capacity.

 

[Snowlan]

I tried from the other side of the pallet today (it’s about 40” wide so if center of gravity was too far forward then it should be favorable from the other side). Unfortunately the 3PH on the blower projected beyond the pallet so it kept me about 4” away from the pallet. I still couldn’t roll it back, might have been worse. In fact, I pushed the forks into the ground so I could roll it back which worked. When I lifted the load the dump cylinders could not hold the load and the cylinders extended until about the same position in the previous picture which is where the dump geometry begins to improve.

 

[GJohnson]

I have a ct225 that is very strong In hydraulics for the size of the machine. The thing some folks forget is the weight of the pallet forks or whatever attachment is on the loader. I know my forks are extremely heavy duty and weigh quite a lot. Be sure you’re factoring the weight of the attachment when doing the math.

 

[tman1020]

As stated earlier the weight of the forks is definitely a consideration some forks are much heavier than others. Skid steer forks are typically around 400 pounds. Lightweight tractor forks are generally closer to 250.
Also when I tested my hydraulics the specs called for tractor to be at full RPM. it does make a difference.

 

[GJohnson]

As stated earlier the weight of the forks is definitely a consideration some forks are much heavier than others. Skid steer forks are typically around 400 pounds. Lightweight tractor forks are generally closer to 250.
Also when I tested my hydraulics the specs called for tractor to be at full RPM. it does make a difference.

I guess the reason I’m struggling with your issue is my personal experience is so drastically different. I can literally lift the rear of the tractor by curling the bucket. Although I do not move hay with the loader, I do use this tractor for a lot of lifting tasks. I don’t think I have ever needed to test the hydraulic pressure because it is so strong for its size. I hope you can resolve your issue.

 

[Snowlan]

I can literally lift the rear of the tractor by curling the bucket.

That is good to know, do you have loaded tires or any ballast on back when you lift the rear off the ground? I can't make the rear end budge, but the tires are loaded and I had a box blade mounted when trying to make this lift. I've never once lifted the rear tires off the ground in any implement configuration and I often get the bucket stuck in the dirt pile and have to reverse because I can't lift out of the pile.

One other thing surprised me, with the 42" forks level and about waste high off the ground, just my body weight (210lb) on the end of the light weight forks actually extends the curl cylinders and compresses the boom cylinders. Remove the weight and they spring back. I expected flex in the loader frame/arms, not springiness in the hydraulic system. In hind sight I do recall stepping on the bucket to avoid mud while walking around the front of the tractor and the bucket dipped while my body weight was on it.

 

[tman1020]

I wonder if maybe there’s some air stuck in your hydraulic system. Try pushing your loader control all the way to max and holding it there for15 or 20 seconds in multiple directions and see if that changes things.

 

[GJohnson]

I am with Tman on this. It either sounds like air or you have a bleed, possibly in the joystick where some pressure is getting to up/down and curl up/down. A simple seal leak can make your hydraulics seem weak. To answer your question, I usually have something on the 3 point, heavy old forklift forks or something. I do not have the tires loaded though.

 

[Snowlan]

I’m back at sea again, I’ll work the loader when I get back and see if the springiness reduces.

I’m also going to pick up a gage and some quick connections to test the pressure at the loader ports and rear remotes. I’ve been thinking about the backhoe performance and the fact that the stabilizers can’t always fully extend unless I use the backhoe to lift the rear end and reduce the weight the stabilizers need to lift. I mentioned this to my dealer a while back and he blamed it on me putting pressure on the loader bucket before lifting the back end. Anyone else have trouble picking up the rear end with the backhoe stabilizers?

 

[tman1020]

No my stabilizers will lift the back of my CT 225 without issue or hesitation. Definitely sounds like something is out of wack. I’m assuming you have checked your fluid level correct?

 

[Snowlan]

No my stabilizers will lift the back of my CT 225 without issue or hesitation. Definitely sounds like something is out of wack. I’m assuming you have checked your fluid level correct?

Yes, fluid levels are good and filters/oil changing up to date.

 

[Houdini]

I had the same problem with mine, wouldn’t curl much weight, just bypassed. I removed the quick connects one by one until I isolated the curl circuit. The curl QD had one of the needles that push together to enable flow “hyper extended” for lack of a better term and wouldn’t depress. I took a drift punch and gave a few gentle taps on it with a hammer to reseat the needle to re-enable flow and it seems to spring in/out normally like the rest.

That being said, I haven’t had an opportunity to try and lift something heavy to verify it fixed the problem, but it seemed like a smoking gun. If it isn’t the case with yours, try flip-flopping the curl/uncurl functions and see if it has full curl there. Maybe replace the offending QD before a service call.

 

[Gambillford]

Sorry I am kind of late to the party but did you ever resolve your issue? I am experiencing the same thing. Thanks

 

[Snowlan]

Sorry I am kind of late to the party but did you ever resolve your issue? I am experiencing the same thing. Thanks

No I have not had the opportunity due to my work schedule. I will be able to look at it again in January. Now that others have confirmed their backhoe stabilizers can lift the back of the tractor up with no problem, I know for sure my hydraulics are not as strong as they should be and my dealer is full of crap for saying otherwise. I can only get the back wheels off the ground if I use the backhoe pressed into the ground and then put down stabilizers bit by bit.

I’m going to put a gage on a quick connect and test at the loader ports what pressure I get while the relief lifts. Then speak to the dealer again with data in hand.

 

[Redleafmaple]

Incase it helps, I lifted a pallet with 1240 lbs on it. It was able to curl a little bit so it leaned towards the tractor but not more and it was able to lift plenty. The weight was evenly distributed on a 40x48 pallet so I'm sure it could have curled better/ lifted more if it was closer to the pivot not spread up to 4 feet from the tractor

 

[woolyAcres]

Our CT2025 (now with about 100 hours) also doesn't curl as well as I expected. It has another issues, perhaps related, where uncurling the loader generally makes the noise associated with fluid bypass. I don't really understand how or why. It's always done it. It's worse at low rpms. I wonder if maybe I've got the same issue as Houdini. I'll have to look at that.

Anyone else with by-pass issues on curl/dump?

 

[Bonbcatter]

I also have the same sound and “bypassing when dumping” any solution?

 

[Redleafmaple]

Are your RPMs low when that's happening? As I understand it you want your RPMs at a certain level because that's what will keep the hydraulic fluid flowing faster, too low and the system may be struggling under load. When doing loader work I'm usually at 2000 to 2500 rpm