Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ?

[/pine]

Love those old continental Red Seal engines...had a L6 226 in a Willys pick up...used to see the same engine in Bantam cranes and other industrial machines like compressors, generators, pumps etc., etc...!

 

[Hay Dude]

Had old gasoline tractors, it is a nightmare and all of them had a unlimited thirst for fuel, have a MF135 diesel and a full tank seems last forever, no gas trakctor starts easier than a AD3-152 diesel.

I remember big block gas engines in class 7 & 8 trucks. They were a joke and got 3-4 MPG

 

[Hilbilly]

So after some of the feedback here and gathering more information, I see that the main reason for the increase in diesel vs gas, is the conversion to ULS fuel. However reading the link that Williy provided indicates the huge increases are mainly due to oil companies gouging us now to make up for the losses they experienced due to Covid. I'm sure there are lots of reasons / excuses for the ridiculous prices we are facing but like most people I am not pleased.

I guess I should have bought shares in the oil companies during Covid.

 

[finn1]

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but let's face it, diesel is in the public eye these days. Our current government would love to do away with it completely. If they somehow create an environment artificially that keeps fuel prices high, perhaps it will give the industry more incentive to start moving away from diesel. At least, that's the plan. And it seems to be working, with Cummins developing a gasoline version of their popular 6.7L engine, Ford dropping two new gas engines in the last 24 months, and semi-truck manufacturers showing off hydrogen fuel cell and electric options to fleets. I would say it's only a matter of time until ag equipment follows suit.

I would like to note that I do not personally agree with the way things are going. I'm just pointing out how it is. This current administration sees environmental issues as their key to staying in power. All they have to do is convince folks there is a problem, and then present themselves as the solution to that problem.

Your manifesto is the epitome of conspiracy theory propaganda.

 

[Cougsfan]

Having owned both gas and diesel tractors for years and put lots of hours on both, there ain't no way you could talk me into buying a gas tractor again for numerous reasons. I think a lot of people are comparing the simplicity of a 1960's gas tractor engine to the complexity of a modern diesel tractor engine. A modern gas tractor engine would likely be just as complex as a modern diesel engine, but likely have a much shorter life cycle and have a higher fuel consumption rate per ft lb of torque. Same as in the '60's.

The $2 per gallon diesel vs gasoline cost difference on average would be a fairly sizable exaggeration where I live. Off-road diesel vs regular gas is currently less than half that difference. Taxed diesel is around $1.50/gallon more expensive, but I never buy that for my tractor. And we are in an anomaly at the moment, it usually isn't that great of difference.

 

[Paystar]

Having owned both gas and diesel tractors for years and put lots of hours on both, there ain't no way you could talk me into buying a gas tractor again for numerous reasons. I think a lot of people are comparing the simplicity of a 1960's gas tractor engine to the complexity of a modern diesel tractor engine. A modern gas tractor engine would likely be just as complex as a modern diesel engine, but likely have a much shorter life cycle and have a higher fuel consumption rate per ft lb of torque. Same as in the '60's.

The $2 per gallon diesel vs gasoline cost difference on average would be a fairly sizable exaggeration where I live. Off-road diesel vs regular gas is currently less than half that difference. Taxed diesel is around $1.50/gallon more expensive, but I never buy that for my tractor. And we are in an anomaly at the moment, it usually isn't that great of difference.

Right now where I am north of the Sault in Ontario Canada, off road dyed diesel is more than clear on road diesel and gasoline! Why? Because they know we need to heat our homes for the winter.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Right now where I am north of the Sault in Ontario Canada, off road dyed diesel is more than clear on road diesel and gasoline! Why? Because they know we need to heat our homes for the winter.

So, go buy the clear and dump/pump it in the heat oil tank.

SR

 

[4570Man]

Right now where I am north of the Sault in Ontario Canada, off road dyed diesel is more than clear on road diesel and gasoline! Why? Because they know we need to heat our homes for the winter.

I’ve been burning road diesel in my equipment all summer because it’s been cheaper than red. There’s only one supplier in town for red is the only reason I see for it. But I’ve never seen red diesel at $1.50 cheaper than road fuel. It’s usually 50-60 cents cheaper. If you had a farm card the difference might be a little more. But us construction guys still have to pay sales tax on red fuel.

 

[cathy liebchen]

Gas tractors are not coming back, obviously.

 

[eagle628]

Now you have a naturally aspirated, simple gasoline pushrod 2.0L 3-cylinder that can make 38 HP and 110 lbf-ft of torque, theoretically. This would easily fit in our CUTs and burn hardly any gasoline when you're just loafing around doing basic work. Under sustained heavy load, it would surely burn more fuel vs our current diesels, but for guys like me that mostly do basic light-duty loader work? Who cares! It would be great. Keep in mind that my power figures were for just 1500 rpm! No reason not to rev it up to 3000 and BLOW away the power and torque that our current, lethargic diesels make. But at under 2000rpm, it should be pretty quiet and reliable.

"Loafing around doing basic work" is pretty much the ideal scenario for a an electric machine, plus it'd give you better power under short heavy load than either gas or diesel. The only place electric comes up short is sustained heavy load, until or unless the next big jump in energy storage, and diesel fills that gap perfectly, so what kind of target market does that leave for gas?

 

[rontaki]

Your manifesto is the epitome of conspiracy theory propaganda.

A very smart woman does a lot of research and reporting on many things relating to energy, including the future of diesel fuel. She is not coming from a political viewpoint, using a just the facts approach. It would be difficult to call her a conspiracy theorist.

There are many articles on her web site, energyskeptik, where you will find a lot of information.

For her take on diesel fuel, start here: Index of best energyskeptic posts | Peak Everything, Overshoot, & Collapse
and navigate to When Trucks Stop running: Why diesel fuel can’t be replaced, about 1/3 of the way down the page.

 

[jyoutz]

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but let's face it, diesel is in the public eye these days. Our current government would love to do away with it completely. If they somehow create an environment artificially that keeps fuel prices high, perhaps it will give the industry more incentive to start moving away from diesel. At least, that's the plan. And it seems to be working, with Cummins developing a gasoline version of their popular 6.7L engine, Ford dropping two new gas engines in the last 24 months, and semi-truck manufacturers showing off hydrogen fuel cell and electric options to fleets. I would say it's only a matter of time until ag equipment follows suit.

I would like to note that I do not personally agree with the way things are going. I'm just pointing out how it is. This current administration sees environmental issues as their key to staying in power. All they have to do is convince folks there is a problem, and then present themselves as the solution to that problem.

So that explains why diesel prices are at record highs worldwide?

 

[Citydude]

So that explains why diesel prices are at record highs worldwide?

Fossil fuel hating governments are not just in the US. So yes, it's worldwide.

 

[etpm]

So after some of the feedback here and gathering more information, I see that the main reason for the increase in diesel vs gas, is the conversion to ULS fuel. However reading the link that Williy provided indicates the huge increases are mainly due to oil companies gouging us now to make up for the losses they experienced due to Covid. I'm sure there are lots of reasons / excuses for the ridiculous prices we are facing but like most people I am not pleased.

I guess I should have bought shares in the oil companies during Covid.

"huge increases are mainly due to oil companies gouging us to make up for losses due to covid". Making up for losses, my hind leg. Gouging Americans absolutely correct. And yet they still get huge tax benefits. Huge increases due to them being greedy and being able to get away with it is the more accurate statement. The oil companies had the best quarter EVER in 2022. Higher profits in the first quarter of 2022 than profits in any previous YEAR. That's right, had higher profits in 3 months than in any previous year. Feh!
Eric

 

[jjeff]

You raise an interesting question. One drawback of gas for occasional users is that it doesn't store as well as diesel does. I can shut my diesel tractor off, pull the key and walk away from it for a year. (Theoretically speaking... it's a rare occasion that it sets for more than a week.)

Imo it would probably have a simple inexpensive single point fuel injection system. Which would mitigate a lot of the problems with older blended gas. Of course you can also add "snake oil" and hope for the best. Lol

 

[deezler]

"Loafing around doing basic work" is pretty much the ideal scenario for a an electric machine, plus it'd give you better power under short heavy load than either gas or diesel. The only place electric comes up short is sustained heavy load, until or unless the next big jump in energy storage, and diesel fills that gap perfectly, so what kind of target market does that leave for gas?

I suppose my answer would be that batteries are big, heavy, and very expensive, and you'll never avoid having very limited run time under load and long recharge times (see the Soletrac specs for example).

So the target market for gas is only: as a somewhat less desirable replacement for diesel, haha. But if diesel fuel costs remain stratospheric, and emissions regulations continue to tighten and choke the diesel engine further into inefficiency, then the gasoline alternative in the 25-50 HP CUT market could start to look workable.

 

[Blue Mule]

Your manifesto is the epitome of conspiracy theory propaganda.

If only it were propaganda......

 

[Fixastuff]

I rented a gas powered vermeer plow and hated(yes I mean that @5030 ) every second of its use!

 

[MossRoad]

If only it were propaganda......

 

[ericm979]

I suppose my answer would be that batteries are big, heavy, and very expensive, and you'll never avoid having very limited run time under load and long recharge times (see the Soletrac specs for example).

So the target market for gas is only: as a somewhat less desirable replacement for diesel, haha. But if diesel fuel costs remain stratospheric, and emissions regulations continue to tighten and choke the diesel engine further into inefficiency, then the gasoline alternative in the 25-50 HP CUT market could start to look workable.

Battery weight isn't a big deal for cars and it's even less of a problem with tractors where weight is good. Heavier batteries can be cheaper or perform better.

While modern gas tractors could perform well and cost a little less then diesel to buy and operate, I don't see manufacturers putting any effort into making them. For one, many people now associate tractors with diesel. Those folks would be resistant to a gas tractor. A gas tractor would require significant engineering even if much of it could come from the automotive world. Turning an LS engine into a three cylinder tractor engine isn't a trivial task. The designer may be able to reuse some parts like pistons but many would have to be new. LS parts are designed for a specific cost/performance envelope. Tractor engines have much less performance and can use cheaper parts. The LS parts that are repurposed would cost more to produce than parts designed for the use.

I think the future of CUTS is going to be battery like it is with cars. With only a certain amount of R&D resources available, why would a manufacturer spend it on a stop gap design with limited market appeal?

The current crop of electric CUTS are pretty lame but I expect that to change.