Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ?

[hornett22]

I know they are putting gas engines in commercial wood chippers. Kubota converted one of their diesel power plants to gas. I think vermeer is using it. It's around the 70 hp mark somewhere.

 

[MossRoad]

If you have something that needs to run at a continuous speed with a specified HP and torque, the thing doesn't care if it's a diesel or gas or electric power source. It just cares about shaft power. HP is HP is HP. So something with a hydraulic pump wouldn't care.

The only time you'd notice a difference is if the machine started bogging down. The diesel will hold in the torque range longer due to the longer stroke of the connecting rods and crankshaft.

Fuel economy is where a diesel would also be of benefit in a situation like that, I'd think.

My current machine is all hydraulically operated. It's a Kohler Command 25hp gas engine. That turns a variable volume pump that supplies the 4 wheel motors, and two other fixed displacement pumps that provide power to the steering, FEL, and hydraulic motors on things like mower decks, snow blowers, augers, etc. No drive shafts, transmissions, etc. Just pumps, hoses, rams, and hydraulic motors.

You start it up, push the throttle to 3600rpm like a lawn tractor, and off you go.

 

[MossRoad]

Our 70's IH2500b was a gas engine with HST. The engine turned a pump. The pump turned a motor. The motor turned a shaft on the 2 speed range box. That turned a shaft that turned the rear differential. There was also a pump in there somewhere that provided the hydraulic power for the 3pt hitch, steering, FEL, etc. Again, with that, you set the throttle at high RPMS, selected the range you wanted, and off you go.

 

[Hay Dude]

I know they are putting gas engines in commercial wood chippers. Kubota converted one of their diesel power plants to gas. I think vermeer is using it. It's around the 70 hp mark somewhere.

Its much cheaper for sure. A 75-100HP diesel wood chipper would be $10,000 more than a gas variant.
I can tell you as a person who works outside with equipment every day that even though my gross profit is growing, my percentage of take home pay is dropping for the last 2 years.
We are all looking at alternatives to shed off costs to make up for higher fuel, insurance, parts & service costs.
One thing gas engines are is cheaper.

 

[4570Man]

We had battery operated forklifts with clamps in our paper warehouses that did actual real work unloading rail cars and lifting double stacked rolls of paper that weighed 2.5 tons 20' in the air for hours and hours every day for over 40 years. Seemed like real work to me.

They never maintained a very high continuous load. That’s where batteries are seriously lacking.

 

[MossRoad]

They never maintained a very high continuous load. That’s where batteries are seriously lacking.

They'd run non stop for several hours twice a day. Start/stop/change direction, power the lift pumps. It was not easy work. Much harder than the load on a car.

 

[Agvg]

Its much cheaper for sure. A 75-100HP diesel wood chipper would be $10,000 more than a gas variant.
I can tell you as a person who works outside with equipment every day that even though my gross profit is growing, my percentage of take home pay is dropping for the last 2 years.
We are all looking at alternatives to shed off costs to make up for higher fuel, insurance, parts & service costs.
One thing gas engines are is cheaper.

Extreme difference, if I want to buy me a new ICE van, the difference between gas and diesel is not large.

 

[4570Man]

Extreme difference, if I want to buy me a new ICE van, the difference between gas and diesel is not large.

I just picked up a high top Ford transit van. Going from a ecoboost motor to a Mercedes’ diesel was at least a 10k difference. And with diesel costing $2 more per gallon it makes no sense.

 

[Agvg]

Hmm, priced up a small van here, a few hundred dollars, strange.

 

[eagle628]

That means fracking, right?

Certainly for much of America, although in general it's probably excellent news for Qatar which controls a huge amount of gas that doesn't need fracking to extract.

 

[denchen]

Interesting to read on how you guys the other side of the pond are still going for petrol [gas] engines. Here I don't think I've seen a new tractor that runs on petrol or petrol/parraffin [kerosine] since the 1960s. Back just after WW11 many in fact most farmers had petrol or petrol/parraffin, that you switched over too when the engine got warmed up, A lot of the tractors came from your side of the pond. Most diesels at that time were a pain to start in the cold. That was until MF brought out the little MF35 later 135 and the MF65 and 165. On reading your posts, no one mentioned running on parraffin [kerosine]. Here in England it's nearly the same price as petrol at the pump. They say its because of there's no demand. Loads of rubbish, what are all those aeroplanes running on, I guess our government don't want us simple minions using the stuff. Electric tractors, no not seen one, Theres plenty of motor cars, but our government has just altered the tax system so they now have to pay more tax. As governments do after they have convinced every one to buy one. Weve got a small fishing fleet in my town, Non are on electric, all diesel. some like your Caterpiler engines, others go for Perkins and Ford. Interesting I see a lot of ships now use electric drive motors driven by diesel generators. Years ago there was a massive crane/drag line not far from me. It was run on by electric, but it was connected by an electric cable. If only they could make an electric unit that didn't have to drag the battery onlong. As an add on, I run a diesel tractor and a three year old diesel Mercedes car.

 

[Snezzy]

Diesel started becoming more expensive than gas in the early 2000s when the switch was made to ultra low sulfur diesel. The price differential with gas is a larger spread now than it used to be.

Yes, they have to pay the guy with a pair of tweezers who picks out each sulfur atom. Next thing will be to set him to picking out the carbon atoms as well.

 

[warrendeere]

I seriously doubt it. They will go to electric.. unfortunately. The problem with electric and gas is the run time and torque. Think about it. There is a reason all of the major brands aren't making gas tractors anymore. They just can't keep up. That's not referring to the old ones, but the life you will get out of a gas engine and the torque cannot meet today's power demands. Yes these bigger gas engines are impressive, however, getting 14MPG in a brand new truck is very disappointing to say the least.

 

[warrendeere]

Having owned both gas and diesel tractors for years and put lots of hours on both, there ain't no way you could talk me into buying a gas tractor again for numerous reasons. I think a lot of people are comparing the simplicity of a 1960's gas tractor engine to the complexity of a modern diesel tractor engine. A modern gas tractor engine would likely be just as complex as a modern diesel engine, but likely have a much shorter life cycle and have a higher fuel consumption rate per ft lb of torque. Same as in the '60's.

The $2 per gallon diesel vs gasoline cost difference on average would be a fairly sizable exaggeration where I live. Off-road diesel vs regular gas is currently less than half that difference. Taxed diesel is around $1.50/gallon more expensive, but I never buy that for my tractor. And we are in an anomaly at the moment, it usually isn't that great of difference.

Couldn't have said it better .

 

[warrendeere]

The issues I can see revolve around getting the same power out of the same size/weight engine reliably and inexpensively with a gasser as with a modern common-rail turbodiesel.

A modern EFI gasoline engine is pretty close to the same efficiency in HP-hr/lb as a current Tier 4 diesel. Gasoline engines can be built just as heavy as diesel engines and have a similar lifespan. Off-road gasoline engines have minimal emissions requirements, and even if they had to meet on-road emissions, those are still much simpler and less expensive than those of a Tier 4 diesel. At least regular 87 octane gasoline is also noticeably less expensive than diesel so your costs per HP-hr would be lower with regular gasoline if it could be done.

A naturally-aspirated gasoline engine running on 87 octane makes only a little more power (about 15% or so) at the same RPM than a naturally-aspirated diesel of the same displacement. The issue is that a highly-tuned four-valve multiple-turbocharged and intercooled/aftercooled diesel can make twice the HP/displacement as it would naturally-aspirated, so you would either need a much larger naturally-aspirated gasoline engine to make the same power or add forced aspiration to the gasser. Adding forced aspiration would either bring direct injection into the mix (which brings extra cost and some reliability issues) in order to continue to run 87 octane gasoline or you would need to run a much higher octane fuel to avoid needing direct injection. The limited market for turbocharged heavy duty non-diesel engines with similar power densities as the highly tuned turbodiesels is solidly in the "higher octane fuel" camp as they run on 106 octane propane or 120 octane methane. All of the industrial engines I've come across that run on gasoline are naturally-aspirated.

The efficiency that you claim for the gasolines engines isn't present.

 

[troverman]

You can buy a 40HP Briggs Vanguard EFI engine in many high end commercial mowers and it makes more horsepower and more torque than say a 25hp diesel small tractor. Why not?

 

[Johnb0311]

If your lucky to live near a dealership That sells racing fuels you can get gas from them. Hi test and no dang ethanol. Also I live near a small airport and they sell good gas with no ethanol. Only thing it's not cheap which is why it's hard to not go diesel for a lot of work. But this post gives me urge to post my Sunday go for picnic ride tractor. LOL Grabbed my Grandads old 41 B and tore her apart and gave her a new look. If you use good gas and shut off the petcock to keep gas out of the carb you have no problem firing it up and running. Except maybe the new fangled carbs are too sophisticated to do that today. But so far all my small gasoline implements work good using that technique.

Before and After:

 

[m5040]

I would watch what Cummins Engine Co is doing for research. Elect will only work with light loads, coasting and regen braking - not something tractors do.

If the majority of cars go electric, the availability of gas will decrease and the price will go up and then be equivalent in price to diesel, yet 30% less efficient and still have poor storage life and a explosion hazard.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

I don't see any great advantage to today's diesels.

Diesel fuel it offers drivers a better bang for their buck than gasoline. People concerned about fuel efficiency should strongly consider diesel engines.

Diesel engines not only deliver better fuel economy than similarly performing gasoline engines, but they also deliver as much or more fuel economy as gasoline-electric hybrids. This is due to the diesel engine’s superior torque and energy. These factors also contribute to the diesel engine’s impressive speed.

A diesel engine requires fewer repairs. A diesel engine does not need spark plugs or distributors, which are common pieces of maintenance required for traditional internal combustion engines. Avoiding these bothersome visits to the mechanic could save a car owner a tremendous amount of money over the years.

A diesel engine, known for its durability, will experience less wear than a gas engine.

Diesel engines offer riders a faster start than gas-powered engines. This is due to its torque. Essentially, diesel engines provide far more torque to the driveshaft, which allows them to go from zero to double digits quicker than a gas car.

One of the biggest advantages of a diesel engine over gasoline is resale value. Since diesel engines are more durable, they retain their value much better than gasoline engines.

- Stolen and paraphrased from Advantages of a Diesel Engine Over Gasoline

 

[9035768HM]

They'd run non stop for several hours twice a day. Start/stop/change direction, power the lift pumps. It was not easy work. Much harder than the load on a car.

You’re right about the electric Hilo but it’s job can’t be compared to a tractor running pto equipment at high rpm for hours on end. I don’t see a battery tractor having a significant role in a true farm operation. For folks that use a tractor just around the yard or for odd jobs the battery might be a practical option