Truck & Trailer ideas to tow 14,000 and be under 26,000 pounds

[stumblinhorse]

My understanding is that no matter if you're commercial or not >26k combined gross weight requires a CDL per the Feds. Certain states have farm exemptions with limitations on range/load/etc.

I've heard that some law enforcement will cite for this if the summed gvw of the truck + trailer>26k even if you're empty. (Which imo is a gross misapplication of the law)

I don’t think think so. I think that is internet lore.

 

[amhicks21]

I am confused by a few statements about CDL. I don’t haul anything for money. I haul to save my money. 26k means nothing if you don’t do it commercially. If you don’t have DOT numbers the only thing you will get stopped for is failure to secure something properly. But that is even a stretch. My trailer is rated for 18k and I run a Dodge 3500 SB SRW with 3.42s and a 68rfe.

The enforcement on weights varies drastically on where you are and generally you'll get left alone if what you're hauling looks reasonable. For instance in my area no one gets messed with hauling a 14k trailer without a cdl. The problem comes if you ever get in an accident. Regardless of your role, if its found that you were supposed to have a CDL it'll get turned over to DOT and they'll expect the same level of responsibility that they would of any truck driver. There are states with RV exemptions but those are meant pretty specifically for RVs and not equipment. Normal police don't carry scales with them or care about weights and DOT isn't going to waste time checking weights out in the boondocks but that doesnt mean you aren't technically supposed to have a cdla to haul an 18k trailer. A quick search shows Colorado having the same 26k/10k laws as anywhere else. Im not trying to convince you to do anything different but I'd hate to see you have an unpleasant surprise if you ever did get checked by DOT.

 

[stumblinhorse]

The enforcement on weights varies drastically on where you are and generally you'll get left alone if what you're hauling looks reasonable. For instance in my area no one gets messed with hauling a 14k trailer without a cdl. The problem comes if you ever get in an accident. Regardless of your role, if it’s found that you were supposed to have a CDL it'll get turned over to DOT and they'll expect the same level of responsibility that they would have any truck driver. There are states with RV exemptions but those are meant pretty specifically for RVs and not equipment. Normal police don't carry scales with them or care about weights and DOT isn't going to waste time checking weights out in the boondocks but that doesnt mean you aren't technically supposed to have a cdla to haul an 18k trailer. A quick search shows Colorado having the same 26k/10k laws as anywhere else. Im not trying to convince you to do anything different but I'd hate to see you have an unpleasant surprise if you ever did get checked by DOT.

can you point me to any state, starting with Colorado that says anything about personal vehicles, like a pickup truck, and a weight limit, beyond what is on your door tag.

 

[oliver1555]

But, again, farmers fall under different rules unless hauling for hire. Here is an example from Colorado. The same for Texas and most states.

 

[stumblinhorse]

But, again, farmers fall under different rules unless hauling for hire.

Not really just farmers. Don’t haul for money and stay under your door tag and there is nothing illegal in any state. There is so much internet talk about this I see why there is so much confusion. There is the liability in an accident talk that comes up a lot. I agree that you are in trouble if you exceed your door tag…. But about 70% of drivers do that without a trailer. My Jeep payload after Jeep and gas is about 400 pounds. I exceed that as soon as I have 3 other adults in the jeep.
But back on topic, I am not commercial and those limits don’t apply.

 

[WM75Guy]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the guidelines I've always gone by are these. Can you show me a source that shows an allowable 26k GCWR with a trailer weight over 10k without a cdla? It seems counter intuitive that you'd legally be able to haul a heavier trailer if hauling it with a smaller truck.

Types of CDLs​

There are three types of CDLs, as defined below by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA):

• Class A: Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR or gross combination weight of 26,001 lbs. or more, including a towed unit(s) with a GVWR or gross vehicle weight of more than 10,000 lbs.
• Class B: Any single vehicle that has a GVWR or gross vehicle rate of 26,001 lbs. or more, or a vehicle towing a vehicle with a GVWR (or gross vehicle weight) that isn’t more than 10,000 lbs.
• Class C: Any single vehicle (or combination of vehicles) that doesn’t meet the definition of Class A or Class B but is designed to transported 16 or more passengers (driver included) or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous or material that’s been listed as a select agent or toxin

Texas Transportation Code Section 521.083

Texas Constitution and Statutes

statutes.capitol.texas.gov

Page 4 of the Texas Driver Handbook from the Texas Department of Public Safety.

Details - DPSnet Internet Forms

DPSwww Intranet Forms

www.dps.texas.gov

 

[stumblinhorse]

The farmer exclusion allows for hauling commercially, meaning for money, without a CDL if you fall into what @oliver1555 posted. But for anyone else if you have a 39K GCWR on your door tag like a 3500 ram aisin with 4.10s. You don’t need a CDL to be that heavy…

 

[MTGreen]

The farmer exclusion allows for hauling commercially, meaning for money, without a CDL if you fall into what @oliver1555 posted. But for anyone else if you have a 39K GCWR on your door tag like a 3500 ram aisin with 4.10s. You don’t need a CDL to be that heavy…

So by this logic anybody with a class C license can drive a class 8 semi truck with an 80,000 lb gross combined weight anywhere so long as you are hauling your own personal stuff and keep under the 80k door tag.
I'm reasonably certain that 99.99% of law enforcement officers would disagree with you here.

 

[redman135]

Eddie, is it less trouble to get a CDL, to get a vehicle that will do your gross weights comfortably(there seems to be quite a bit of variation between states)?
Or ,since the backhoe seems to be the limiting factor, hire someone to shift it and just use your vehicle for everything else.

 

[stumblinhorse]

So by this logic anybody with a class C license can drive a class 8 semi truck with an 80,000 lb gross combined weight anywhere so long as you are hauling your own personal stuff and keep under the 80k door tag.
I'm reasonably certain that 99.99% of law enforcement officers would disagree with you here.

Not at all. specifically in this response it means that a farmer can exceed 26000 pounds hauling for money Without a CDL.

Conversely do you believe that anyone that purchases a 2016 3500 aisin ram with 4.10s needs to have a CDL since it has a 39,100 pound GCWR ?

 

[WM75Guy]

This is only for Texas, I can't speak to other states, and sorry for the length. I am a retired Texas peace officer that dealt with this issue for our Fire Department drivers. Texas law allows for a Class A or Class B non-CDL to operate certain vehicles, including certain farmers. You take the commercial written and road test in a 26,001# or greater GVWR vehicle for the Class B, add a trailer over 10,000# if going for the Class A. You are exempt from all other CDL rules such as medical exams, hours of operation, logbooks, etc. Our ambulance was on a Freightliner FL70 chassis that required a Class B non-CDL, as well as most of our fire apparatus. The tillered ladder trucks require a Class A non-CDL.

A farm vehicle driver driving a vehicle over 26,001# and staying within 150 miles needs the Class A or B non-CDL. Take a 26,001# vehicle or combination over 150 miles from the farm and you need the appropriate CDL. One business that has taken off is horse owners with CDLs taking horses to horse shows for other owners that don't want to bother getting a CDL. We stayed under the limits with our truck and trailer using the Class C exemption for hauling a 20,000# or less trailer behind our 2500HD pickup, no mileage restrictions. The folks that got into trouble were driving a Freightliner M2 or International 4900 hauling a 4 horse 3-axle trailer with living quarters with a Class C license.

From the Texas Driver Handbook:

49 CFR 390.5 gives the federal definition of a covered farm vehicle, farmer and farm vehicle driver.

 

[4570Man]

Conversely do you believe that anyone that purchases a 2016 3500 aisin ram with 4.10s needs to have a CDL since it has a 39,100 pound GCWR ?

GCWR can only be achieved with a properly rated trailer. If the truck was empty or pulling a light trailer then no CDL. If you were actually running at the rated capacity of 39k and it’s not your private RV or farm vehicle then yes you need a CDL.

 

[redman135]

Eddie, further to my previous post(49), will a class 7 or 6 truck work for you? EG, in New Zealand we would use a 3 axle truck on either 17.5,19.5, or 22.5 inch rims, with a long wheelbase, with a 20' - 28' deck including beaver tail and hydraulic ramps. I would recommend tandem drive for off road and a power divider(inter axle) lock.

 

[Rancher Ed]

The farmer exclusion allows for hauling commercially, meaning for money, without a CDL if you fall into what @oliver1555 posted. But for anyone else if you have a 39K GCWR on your door tag like a 3500 ram aisin with 4.10s. You don’t need a CDL to be that heavy…

4570Man touched on this, but historically GCWR is not one of the numbers listed on your door tag*. GCWR is defined as the GVWR of the truck plus the GVWR of the trailer. Your example Ram 3500 with 4.10s probably has a 14,000 GVWR on the door tag - if you hook it to a 14k GVWR trailer your GCWR is 28,000 pounds but if you hook it to a 30k GVWR trailer (specialty tandem dual gooseneck with 15k axles) your GCWR is 44k.

*I believe some manufacturers have started listing a maximum GCWR on the door tag somewhere which I believe further restricts how large a trailer you can legally pull. In Eddie's case where he is presumably look at trucks from the 2000 or early 2010s due to his budget and limited use whatever truck he gets will not have a GCWR listed on the door tag and his GCWR will be the GVWR of the truck plus the GVWR of whatever trailer he is towing.

 

[Hay Dude]

4570Man touched on this, but historically GCWR is not one of the numbers listed on your door tag*. GCWR is defined as the GVWR of the truck plus the GVWR of the trailer. Your example Ram 3500 with 4.10s probably has a 14,000 GVWR on the door tag - if you hook it to a 14k GVWR trailer your GCWR is 28,000 pounds but if you hook it to a 30k GVWR trailer (specialty tandem dual gooseneck with 15k axles) your GCWR is 44k.

*I believe some manufacturers have started listing a maximum GCWR on the door tag somewhere which I believe further restricts how large a trailer you can legally pull. In Eddie's case where he is presumably look at trucks from the 2000 or early 2010s due to his budget and limited use whatever truck he gets will not have a GCWR listed on the door tag and his GCWR will be the GVWR of the truck plus the GVWR of whatever trailer he is towing.

I tried to tag a CDL truck for GCWR and the tags place demanded a statement from the manufacturer as to what the GCWR was or an MV-41 form filled out and signed by a mechanic.
IH was unable/unwilling to state GCWR, so I went the MV-41 route.

My Ram has a 19,500 GVWR. The trailer I tow has a 38,500 GVWR. Ain’t no way in hell that combination would be able to roll down the road at 58,000lbs. I have it tagged for 48,000lbs and it’ll do it, but it’s pretty well loaded.

 

[LD1]

Eddie, is it less trouble to get a CDL, to get a vehicle that will do your gross weights comfortably(there seems to be quite a bit of variation between states)?
Or ,since the backhoe seems to be the limiting factor, hire someone to shift it and just use your vehicle for everything else.

ITs not exactly that simple.

Even if he hires the backhoe to be hauled.....HE is still at a limit with the other stuff. Because MOST DRW trucks made in the last two decades are 12kgvwr or more. Meaning you CANNOT even hook a simple 14k trailer to them without going over 26k....

And he mentioned a 9k tractor.....I'd definitely want a 14k trailer for that.

CDL debates are fun arent they. The same different answers that come up here, and all the confusion is the same you get if you talk to a LEO. I bet for 99% of us, if you talked to 3 LEO's......1. You local DOT officer, 2. Your local sheriff, and 3. You local state trooper and you will get 3 DIFFERENT answers.

I understand not wanting the headache of a CDL. Medical, physical, log books, etc etc.

The notion that someone wants to haul his tractor around on a 14k trailer behind a dually p/u needs to have the SAME class license as someone that yanks 80,000 pound 18-wheeler across the country is plain STUPID.

And even more stupid is that you can do it with a 1-ton SRW but you cannot do the same thing with with the same trailer and same truck if the only change were it being optioned as a dually.

These CDL laws were drew up back when p/u and trailer combinations for the "average" person made it nearly impossible to get over 26k. And no one was buying 350/450/550 class trucks and doing hot-shot towing. The laws are long overdue for being re-written and clarified IMO.

But first and foremost......the C in CDL is for COMMERCIAL. IF you are NOT commercial, then it doesnt apply right off the bat.
Now whether your state has different classes of non-commercial licenses.....that varies for each state.

 

[Rancher Ed]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the guidelines I've always gone by are these. Can you show me a source that shows an allowable 26k GCWR with a trailer weight over 10k without a cdla? It seems counter intuitive that you'd legally be able to haul a heavier trailer if hauling it with a smaller truck.

Types of CDLs​

There are three types of CDLs, as defined below by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA):

• Class A: Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR or gross combination weight of 26,001 lbs. or more, including a towed unit(s) with a GVWR or gross vehicle weight of more than 10,000 lbs.
• Class B: Any single vehicle that has a GVWR or gross vehicle rate of 26,001 lbs. or more, or a vehicle towing a vehicle with a GVWR (or gross vehicle weight) that isn’t more than 10,000 lbs.
• Class C: Any single vehicle (or combination of vehicles) that doesn’t meet the definition of Class A or Class B but is designed to transported 16 or more passengers (driver included) or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous or material that’s been listed as a select agent or toxin

amhicks21,

The definition above clearly states that the Class A applies to combinations of 26,001 pounds or more. If your GCWR is 26,000 or less then the Class A requirements do not apply, regardless of the size of the trailer.

I agree it is counter intuitive/illogical that you can legally pull a 14k gooseneck with a 1ton SRW pickup (11,x00 pound GVWR) but hooking the same trailer to a DRW pickup with a 13,x00 pound GVWR means you need a CDL. My personal opinion is that a better way to break down the license would be as follows, but that is getting pretty far off topic:

• General driver's license - can tow trailers up to 10,000 pounds
• Trailering License - can tow trailers with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds up to 24,000 pounds; a medical card would be required for commercial drivers (not sure about logbook requirements) but not for personal use
• Class A - Same as current CDL-A, required for towing any trailer with a GVWR of 24,001 or greater.

The general and trailering license would have the same existing 26k limit on the GVWR of the tow vehicle.

 

[LD1]

4570Man touched on this, but historically GCWR is not one of the numbers listed on your door tag*. GCWR is defined as the GVWR of the truck plus the GVWR of the trailer. Your example Ram 3500 with 4.10s probably has a 14,000 GVWR on the door tag - if you hook it to a 14k GVWR trailer your GCWR is 28,000 pounds but if you hook it to a 30k GVWR trailer (specialty tandem dual gooseneck with 15k axles) your GCWR is 44k.

*I believe some manufacturers have started listing a maximum GCWR on the door tag somewhere which I believe further restricts how large a trailer you can legally pull. In Eddie's case where he is presumably look at trucks from the 2000 or early 2010s due to his budget and limited use whatever truck he gets will not have a GCWR listed on the door tag and his GCWR will be the GVWR of the truck plus the GVWR of whatever trailer he is towing.

IF it is listed on the door tag......my understanding is that the Max GCWR is NOT simply the sum of the truck and trailers GVWR's.

It is simply the MAX that the the both can weigh.

In the above example, if the GCWR on the truck tag is 39k........You are still okay with that 14k truck and 30k trailer.....just as long as the total combined weight stays under 39k.

In other words.....you can have a heavily rated trailer, and just not load it as heavy. IE.....you can probably buy the EXACT same trailer with an option for 12k axles or 15k axles. Upgrade to the 15k axles to haul the same load shouldnt automatically make it illegal. Similar to upgrading the 7k axles on a 14k trailer to 8k axles instead.

 

[Hay Dude]

ITs not exactly that simple.

Even if he hires the backhoe to be hauled.....HE is still at a limit with the other stuff. Because MOST DRW trucks made in the last two decades are 12kgvwr or more. Meaning you CANNOT even hook a simple 14k trailer to them without going over 26k....

And he mentioned a 9k tractor.....I'd definitely want a 14k trailer for that.

CDL debates are fun arent they. The same different answers that come up here, and all the confusion is the same you get if you talk to a LEO. I bet for 99% of us, if you talked to 3 LEO's......1. You local DOT officer, 2. Your local sheriff, and 3. You local state trooper and you will get 3 DIFFERENT answers.

I understand not wanting the headache of a CDL. Medical, physical, log books, etc etc.

The notion that someone wants to haul his tractor around on a 14k trailer behind a dually p/u needs to have the SAME class license as someone that yanks 80,000 pound 18-wheeler across the country is plain STUPID.

And even more stupid is that you can do it with a 1-ton SRW but you cannot do the same thing with with the same trailer and same truck if the only change were it being optioned as a dually.

These CDL laws were drew up back when p/u and trailer combinations for the "average" person made it nearly impossible to get over 26k. And no one was buying 350/450/550 class trucks and doing hot-shot towing. The laws are long overdue for being re-written and clarified IMO.

But first and foremost......the C in CDL is for COMMERCIAL. IF you are NOT commercial, then it doesnt apply right off the bat.
Now whether your state has different classes of non-commercial licenses.....that varies for each state.

We don’t have to do log books IF we stay in-state, here in PA.

What really cracks me up is a dually with a 14K trailer needing a CDL and you DON’T need a CDL for these giant diesel pusher motor homes.

Looking back on it, getting my CDL is one of the best things I ever did.

 

[Rustyiron]

I never heard of a CDL Agricultural Exemption before!!!! Thank you for bringing it up.

I did a search and found this https://www.dps.texas.gov/InternetForms/Forms/CVE-13.pdf

On page 5, it says this
"What is a Covered Farm Vehicle? (FMCSR 390.5)

(a) Means a straight truck or articulated vehicle:

(1) Registered in a State with a license plate or other designation issued by the State of registration that allows law enforcement officials to identify it as a farm vehicle; Note: The Texas Department of Public Safety has designated form CVE-30 as that identification. http://www.dps.texas.gov/internetforms/Forms/CVE-30.pdf

(2) Operated by the owner or operator of a farm or ranch, or an employee of family member of an owner or operator of a farm or ranch;

(3) Used to transport agricultural commodities, livestock, machinery or supplies to or from a farm or ranch; and

(4) Not used in for-hire motor carrier operations; however, for-hire motor carrier operations do not include the operation of a vehicle meeting the requirements of paragraphs (a)(1) through (3) of this definition by a tenant pursuant to a crop share farm lease agreement to transport the landlord’s portion of the crops under that agreement.

(b) Meeting the requirements of paragraphs (a)(1) through (4) of this definition:

(1) With a gross vehicle weight or gross vehicle weight rating, whichever is greater, of 26,001 pounds or less may utilize the exemptions in 390.39 anywhere in the United States; or

(2) With a gross vehicle weight or gross vehicle weight rating, whichever is greater, of more than 26,001 pounds may utilize the exemptions in 390.39 anywhere in the State of registration or across State lines within 150 air miles of the farm or ranch with respect to which the vehicle is being operated."

Then on page 6 there's this
"**CDL Exceptions

(a) Farm vehicle drivers are exempt from CDL requirements if:

(1) Used to transport their own agricultural products, farm machinery, or farm supplies to or from their farm;

(2) Used within 150 miles of the person’s farm."



Am I reading this correctly? If the truck and trailer are both registered as "Farm" vehicles, and I'm not using them for hire, but I am using them to transport farm equipment or feed, like round bales of hay, then the weight limit of 26,000 pounds doesn't apply?

Eddie as they (seemingly) have made this completely FUBAR, just keep your rig clean and in good order. It's usually not hard to tell a farmer from a for hire truck and asking for forgiveness is.... you know the rest.
Printing the above and keeping a copy handy in the truck and what sounds like your limited use I'd say just go for it.
In strictly economical terms, have you thought about a local making your hay on shares?