58 MPG by 2032

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Another problem...to cut weight, car companies are making cars with paper thin metals, aluminum and steel. These get hail damaged so easily, I'm sure the insurance companies will end up charging even higher prices to cover the hail damage. I know, I drive a hail damaged 2015 GM vehicle. the hood only weighs maybe 8 lbs? I can easily pick it up with 2 fingers thru the hood latch.

 

[WinterDeere]

Another problem...to cut weight, car companies are making cars with paper thin metals, aluminum and steel. These get hail damaged so easily, I'm sure the insurance companies will end up charging even higher prices to cover the hail damage. I know, I drive a hail damaged 2015 GM vehicle. the hood only weighs maybe 8 lbs? I can easily pick it up with 2 fingers thru the hood latch.

I noticed the same on EV mowers. Due to their high weight, manufacturers are going thin on things like mower deck sheet steel. They're still too heavy for many soft lawns, even after all the component weight reductions.

 

[ultrarunner]

I only met the Japanese plant manager when it was joint venture with GM, Toyota and UAW...

Even being a joint venture it seemed key management was Toyota and a lot of Toyotas produced and we have one of them...

The id10t that ran the Freemont factory ended up as CEO of the company I worked for (tier 1 supplier) and brought in a bunch of his old GM cronies to help him. We went from thriving supplier with facilities in 8 states to bankrupt and the pieces sold off to 2 Canadian firms in 2.5 years. Anything GM is cancer to me.

 

[Williy]

They should scrap all the polution crap and let the car companies
work on making the gas/diesel engines run more efficent
A better exhause system will help improve gas mileage

willy

 

[logixjock]

I only met the Japanese plant manager when it was joint venture with GM, Toyota and UAW...

Even being a joint venture it seemed key management was Toyota and a lot of Toyotas produced and we have one of them...

The plant manager was named Don Dees, and he was 100% American.

 

[Grumpycat]

They should scrap all the polution crap and let the car companies
work on making the gas/diesel engines run more efficent
A better exhause system will help improve gas mileage

willy

Willy is silly. Today's automobile emissions are at least 100 times cleaner per mile than they were in 1966. Better running. Faster. And more efficient.

 

[deezler]

Eh, the efficiency part of your argument is debatable. Look at average vehicle mpg by year. Flat for 20 years now. There's no denying that emissions control has hampered internal combustion efficiency, especially for diesels. I still vote for the cleaner emissions and same efficiency, personally. Otherwise all our cities would be disgustingly smog choked, every day.

 

[Grumpycat]

Eh, the efficiency part of your argument is debatable. Look at average vehicle mpg by year. Flat for 20 years now. There's no denying that emissions control has hampered internal combustion efficiency, especially for diesels. I still vote for the cleaner emissions and same efficiency, personally. Otherwise all our cities would be disgustingly smog choked, every day.

Ok, you placed the bet, I call, show your hand. How is there any doubt today's automobiles are not more efficient than in 1966 when there was no smog control?

1966 VW Beetle might get 30 MPG! My 2016 Subaru Outback's 26,338 mile average (26,338 miles divided by 908 gallons purchased, you can't average averages) is 29.06 MPG after a 550 mile 24 MPG hit driven by a lead foot brake/accelerator friend. My Subaru is a much nicer and larger vehicle than the Beetle.

OK, I decided to look it up. 1966 VW Beetle average 20.41 MPG: 1966 Volkswagen Beetle MPG - Actual MPG from 21 1966 Volkswagen Beetle owners

2016 Outback is 24.69 MPG at 2016 Subaru Outback MPG - Actual MPG from 561 2016 Subaru Outback owners

Outback is PZEV emissions rated.

 

[deezler]

I said "20 years", not 60.

But I should have more artfully articulated that actually, a major reason that overall american vehicle mpg is flat for decades now is because the vehicles themselves have gotten bigger and heavier, accounting for our consumer demand and safety requirements.

Nonetheless! Avoiding formation of NOx in combustion is a direct trade off for combustion efficiency - for both gasoline and diesel. We don't need to debate this basic fact, the tighter the emissions regulations get, the less efficient combustion can be in the cylinder given current and standard ICE technology. Measuring this trade-off in the dyno lab is my day job.

 

[WinterDeere]

Eh, the efficiency part of your argument is debatable. Look at average vehicle mpg by year. Flat for 20 years now.

Data is an inconvenient thing. You can easily see that the actual CAFE performance averages are all up 30% - 50% over the last 20 years. This is data, this is fact.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rulemaking/pdf/cafe/Performance-summary-report-12152014-v2.pdf