N H Ford 445C TCM no. FONN7Z319AAR.

[fred saas]

eKretz, I had a md appt this am. Here's what I did and checked 1 3.0, 2 0.2 3 00.0, 4 100.0, 5 0.1, 6 10.0, 7 10.0, 8 A.
FWD: i checked PWR to (+) motor = 0.0
PWR to (-) motor = 3.7v

REV. PWR to (+) motor = 0.0
PWR to (-) motor 2.8v
I checked shifting all the motions = 0.0.
BTW, I see my battery is reading 10.9 to 11.1. I have it on charge, Fred

 

[eKretz]

Hmm. Where exactly are you placing the meter leads when you check "power to motor +" and "power to motor -" as you should be checking with one meter lead on each of those terminals, not checking them separately. Those two motor terminals should be connected one to each side of a solenoid coil. You can double check that by removing the wires from those terminals and checking the resistance in ohms across the two wires - you should have in the neighborhood of 6-10 ohms across the solenoid coil.

 

[fred saas]

eKretz and TractorTech, A mechanical engineer friend stopped by today and had it running in a couple minutes. I've gotta digest what he did before I try to explain it. I'm celebrating tonight with some fine cardboardeaux. It still needs some adjustments; I felt the start was too hard so I put it in the shed until I can look it over next.

 

[eKretz]

Excellent news, congratulations!

 

[fred saas]

Excellent news, congratulations!

Without yours and TracterTech Ted's help, sadly, I'd be scratching my head into the future! Thank you.

 

[eKretz]

Be sure your idle is low enough. Shifting on my machine feels a little harsh at higher rpm if I leave it up higher with the lever after a cold start on accident, but so did the original controller.

 

[fred saas]

Be sure your idle is low enough. Shifting on my machine feels a little harsh at higher rpm if I leave it up higher with the lever after a cold start on accident, but so did the original controller.

I just read this now, after posting the Tallahatchie bridge. I think I messed up your name, sorry!

Be sure your idle is low enough. Shifting on my machine feels a little harsh at higher rpm if I leave it up higher with the lever after a cold start on accident, but so did the original controller.

eKretz,yes it is a disturbing jerk. I've put it low gears and slowed it down before shifting. 1. is set at 9.4 v, I will set it at 7 volts and see if that will lessen the jerk. maybe the solenoid only needs less volts to activate and somewhere there is a sweet spot. I'm only guessing.

 

[eKretz]

I would not lower the voltage, I would instead try increasing setting number 1 on the controllers to a higher number of seconds. That should bring the voltage in slower. I disagree with your guy about lowering the voltage. By doing that you could end up inadvertently slipping the clutches. By doing so you are weakening the magnetic field that shifts the solenoid - that could allow it to pop out of and into engagement, increasing wear on your clutches. The solenoid is basically like an on/off valve that can be feathered just like your loader valve - the difference is that you don't want to hold it at partial engagement for long periods, because it's what applies hydraulic pressure to your clutch pack to keep it engaged. You want to bring it in slow enough to be unobtrusive, but then keep it locked in tight.

 

[fred saas]

eKretz, TractorTech, On #1. I have 3.0 seconds above and 65% below. I had a hard jerk. Today I reduced it to 45% and it was a much gentler Jerk.

I would not lower the voltage, I would instead try increasing setting number 1 on the controllers to a higher number of seconds. That should bring the voltage in slower. I disagree with your guy about lowering the voltage. By doing that you could end up inadvertently slipping the clutches. By doing so you are weakening the magnetic field that shifts the solenoid - that could allow it to pop out of and into engagement, increasing wear on your clutches. The solenoid is basically like an on/off valve that can be feathered just like your loader valve - the difference is that you don't want to hold it at partial engagement for long periods, because it's what applies hydraulic pressure to your clutch pack to keep it engaged. You want to bring it in slow enough to be unobtrusive, but then keep it locked in tight.

I will go back to 9v and be gentle shifting. My guy agrees with you about about lowering the voltage. It was my brilliant idea.

 

[jbmcc1]

I would not lower the voltage, I would instead try increasing setting number 1 on the controllers to a higher number of seconds. That should bring the voltage in slower. I disagree with your guy about lowering the voltage. By doing that you could end up inadvertently slipping the clutches. By doing so you are weakening the magnetic field that shifts the solenoid - that could allow it to pop out of and into engagement, increasing wear on your clutches. The solenoid is basically like an on/off valve that can be feathered just like your loader valve - the difference is that you don't want to hold it at partial engagement for long periods, because it's what applies hydraulic pressure to your clutch pack to keep it engaged. You want to bring it in slow enough to be unobtrusive, but then keep it locked in tight.

I'm working with Fred on this. We tried changing the #1 Ramp time to 13 seconds. It just seemed to delay the 'jerk'.
I thought possibly we were tapped into the Lockup instead of the regular solenoid?
Thanks, - Jim

 

[eKretz]

No, the lockup would basically make the tractor drive away at idle, and would also stall the machine if it came to a stop via the brakes. There will always be a slight clunk going into gear. My machine did the same with its original controller. It was never a smooth soft shift engagement. It's the same way with an automatic transmission on a car, you're still going to feel the clunk into gear. The output side of the torque converter is spinning away while the machine is running and all that inertia gets brought to a stop when the clutch pack is engaged. I think you can only slow it down so much with such a simple mechanism.

 

[jbmcc1]

eKretz and TractorTech, A mechanical engineer friend stopped by today and had it running in a couple minutes. I've gotta digest what he did before I try to explain it. I'm celebrating tonight with some fine cardboardeaux. It still needs some adjustments; I felt the start was too hard so I put it in the shed until I can look it over next.

The problem was that the 'Speed' on the controller (display) was set to 0%. Once it was set to 60% - off she went!

 

[eKretz]

The problem was that the 'Speed' on the controller (display) was set to 0%. Once it was set to 60% - off she went!

That's actually the pulse width, but I know what you meant. 60% means it's only sending 60% (averaged) of the battery voltage out to the solenoid...

 

[fred saas]

That's actually the pulse width, but I know what you meant. 60% means it's only sending 60% (averaged) of the battery voltage out to the solenoid...

ekretz on #1. I set the bottom at 65% which is 9.4 volts (I think) anyway the battery I was told tops out at 14.5v and the solenoid should not exceed 10v, therefore 14.5v is to 10% as 100v is to x, 1000 divided by 14.5 = 69%. So I set it at 65% = 9.4v. I thought the top slot was slow start, 3 seconds. The lever to the right of the wheel is set to dead slow, I take me foot off the clutch to a delayed soft clunk, then with my left heel I'm off and running. Alls well I think. #2 through 8 are set correctly. Although freezing, today I did some work.

 

[eKretz]

Fred, where are you seeing that the solenoid should not exceed 10V?

 

[fred saas]

Fred, where are you seeing that the solenoid should not exceed 10V?

eJretz, I'll get back to you on that.

 

[jbmcc1]

That's actually the pulse width, but I know what you meant. 60% means it's only sending 60% (averaged) of the battery voltage out to the solenoid...

eKretz - Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to phrase it 'generically'.
I don't know if Fred's meter is 'True RMS', but I think it will be close enough.

 

[eKretz]

eKretz - Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to phrase it 'generically'.
I don't know if Fred's meter is 'True RMS', but I think it will be close enough.

I figured, but not everyone that reads these boards is as technically minded...I try to keep things straight for those guys so there's no confusion. Being a moderator at another technical message board, I just know somebody will be asking themselves "How does a solenoid have a 'speed?'"

Either way, I'd be very careful about lowering the solenoid voltage for extended periods. If the clutch ends up slipping and wearing prematurely, that is a much more difficult and involved repair than replacing a solenoid coil.

If you guys have some information that explains why you think these coils are only rated for 10VDC I'd sure like to know where you got it. My manual states 12V, and I'm pretty sure it just means "battery voltage." The lockup solenoid section explicitly states that the solenoid coil activation circuit should rise to "battery voltage," and I'd be surprised if they weren't using the same coils.

 

[fred saas]

I figured, but not everyone that reads these boards is as technically minded...I try to keep things straight for those guys so there's no confusion. Being a moderator at another technical message board, I just know somebody will be asking themselves "How does a solenoid have a 'speed?'"

Either way, I'd be very careful about lowering the solenoid voltage for extended periods. If the clutch ends up slipping and wearing prematurely, that is a much more difficult and involved repair than replacing a solenoid coil.

If you guys have some information that explains why you think these coils are only rated for 10VDC I'd sure like to know where you got it. My manual states 12V, and I'm pretty sure it just means "battery voltage." The lockup solenoid section explicitly states that the solenoid coil activation circuit should rise to "battery voltage," and I'd be surprised if they weren't using the same coils.

eKretz, you are correct. I moved my percentage up to 85%. I don't remember where I got the 10 volts from. Yesterday we pulled a huge willow stump.

 

[fred saas]

eKretz and TractorTech, now that you both have me working, my anxiety is lubrication. Do you know if anyone has a ready list for a unit like my 445C? I'm worried I'll miss something in the manuals, and I wonder if there are alternatives to the fluids specified.