74 hp skid vs 74 hp hoe for building tiny acreage?

[Gord Baker]

Morning folks..

I'm retired and want to build a garage with a apartment myself.. I used to do hvac and maintenance so I know a little about construction and Ive been reading.. No building inspections in my remote area of Iowa.

So I'm going back and forth about what machine would be the most versatile on my tiny acreage.. I think the skid (Case 95XT) would build a stick built garage faster and fit into small areas, but that the back hoe tractor (Case 580 4x4) could do more, but slower, bigger.. But it has a backhoe and a bucket..

I'm probably wrong about this but picked two machines that use the 4bt engine I like..

Opinions? Real life experiences?

Thanks!

 

[Gord Baker]

74 HP is a very large tractor. You didn't mention the size of your tiny acreage. Consider a pre built model or Apartment beside the Garage, not above it. Many advantages. Think protecting plumbing in Winter etc.

 

[rvds]

For me a skid steer is way too difficult to get in and out of for chores. I often use loader controls from the ground rather than climbing on and off the tractor as I am usually alone. If you have a helper to do the ground work so you can stay in the seat for 10-15 minutes at a time it is a different calculus.

 

[SaddleBronc]

I have a JD 110TLB backhoe and a NH C238 compact tracked loader (as well as a Kubota 8560 tractor w/FEL).

The backhoe is the most versatile, and although I never remove the hoe since I have 3PT/PTO on the Kubota, I find that anytime I want to scoop, fork, grade, dig, etc., the backhoe is first choice. It is literally the prime mover equivalent of a pocket knife that you never want to be without.

Others have offered good input, so here's one point I haven't seen mentioned. If you're considering a skid steer / CTL with a cab, be aware of the nuisance of needing to get out of and back into the vehicle for whatever reason, such as opening a gate. I find the CTL compares poorly to both the open station TLB and the cabbed Kubota tractor for ease of egress/ingress. The CTL must have the arms raised to move, and they must be completely lowered to open the cab. Then, the steps in and out of the cab can be tricky depending what attachment you have mounted.

So, if you have livestock of any kind, you'll have gates and fences. Just something to think about.

 

[sequoyah101]

Morning folks..

I'm retired and want to build a garage with a apartment myself.. I used to do hvac and maintenance so I know a little about construction and Ive been reading.. No building inspections in my remote area of Iowa.

So I'm going back and forth about what machine would be the most versatile on my tiny acreage.. I think the skid (Case 95XT) would build a stick built garage faster and fit into small areas, but that the back hoe tractor (Case 580 4x4) could do more, but slower, bigger.. But it has a backhoe and a bucket..

I'm probably wrong about this but picked two machines that use the 4bt engine I like..

Opinions? Real life experiences?

Thanks!

I don't usually reply to these debates, just a waste of time and a whole lot of opinioneering. One post that said to make a list of what you want to do and candidate machines to see what fits best is a good suggestion. You did not say how big your place is and what else you want to do.

I have multiple pieces of equipment but if I could have just one machine it would be my utility tractor, the CaseIH 50A.
The 4BT is a good engine but I would not let that be my limiting criteria.
I have had a skid steer, sold it. Too rough, tears up too much ground, it was tracked, front entry is not good when lifting as a one man operation, not good for a fellow getting older either. I work a lot with forks and you can't get out well over a big load.
A TLB will not do pto work and neither will a skid steer without an attachment.
Footings, trenching and the like, a one time thing, rent a small excavator.
Do you need to clear? If much hire it done, you'll just tear up small equipment and be frustrated.
If you must have a piece of equipment, not an ag tractor, a small TLB would be my choice. The little Kubotas are good and have frame mounted backhoes. I also had a JD 4600 that had a good frame mounted backhoe that came off easily so you could do PTO work. You can move a mountain with a tea spoon if you have enough time.
I would steer clear of 3 point mounted backhoes unless you expect to use it very lightly and have no big rocks.
I have a JCB 210S, not really small, not really big but very maneuverable and capable. It can be a repair nightmare though because the Brits like to make things as complicated as they can.
Whatever you get, get it with or convert it to a skid steer hitch on the front with a third valve if you expect to grapple, post hole dig or things like that. I build my third valves for the front and back, not difficult and saves a lot of money.
One of the handiest pieces of equipment I have is my old high hour crippled Schaeff SKL 831 articulated loader with a skid steer adapter. I use it all the time but when the oil gets hot it turns into a pig. Something you may want to consider in the skid steer, they all have hydrostatic transmissions and while they usually work a long time they do get worn out and they are VERY expensive to work on.

Make a list or table and see what best fits your needs on paper. I still don't like skid steers for what I do but it may be just what you need. Tracked are a bit more expensive than wheeled but I think worth it.

 

[sequoyah101]

Thanks guys.. 4x4 is a must have..

So your suggesting a tractor with a 3 point and pto that mounts a rented backhoe? Don't think there are any available with the 4bt (4T-390) , but I'm all ears for a good setup.. Thanks

No doubt the Cummins is a good engine but I would not get hung up on it, there are others and it puts you in the category of a pretty large piece of equipment if your place is small. I wouldn't get hung up on it. If you get a machine that doesn't have a computer, DEF or regen a diesel is a diesel if it is a good one and there are many. The little Yanmars are just about bullet proof, some of the Kubotas can have cooling problems. These alternatives put you in a bigger market with more choices.

 

[scootr]

I don't think there is one piece of machinery that does it all well. I have 3 machines that all have their specialties. 2 of them share QA attachments. None of them is a backhoe. But digging trenches or stumps is not something I need to do often. They do make a backhoe attachment for the SS, but not on my list unless one falls into my lap. You may do well with a good tractor and a mini-excavator for digging footings etc. A capable forklift in an invaluable piece of equipment on my ranch.
It really does depend upon your needs.

 

[sambota]

Morning folks..

I'm retired and want to build a garage with a apartment myself.. I used to do hvac and maintenance so I know a little about construction and Ive been reading.. No building inspections in my remote area of Iowa.

So I'm going back and forth about what machine would be the most versatile on my tiny acreage.. I think the skid (Case 95XT) would build a stick built garage faster and fit into small areas, but that the back hoe tractor (Case 580 4x4) could do more, but slower, bigger.. But it has a backhoe and a bucket..

I'm probably wrong about this but picked two machines that use the 4bt engine I like..

Opinions? Real life experiences?

Thanks!

I own a small Kubota tractor with a backhoe (that I only install when I need it, most of the time it’s stored), and run a skid steer at work fairly often. I don’t ever see a time that I would need / want a skid steer at home. Wouldn’t ever give up my tractor however. Extremely versatile.
When you are fully into your building project, you may find renting a small / medium sized excavator may make sense if you need to do a lot of digging. Much faster than a backhoe. But I think the tractor makes more sense to own in the long run.
My 2 cents.
Obviously it really depends on what you need to do.

 

[charlessenf]

I think the skid (Case 95XT) would build a stick built garage faster and fit into small areas

I'm not clear on how a tractor or a skid steer 'builds' a two-story garage.

Are you planning a monolithic foundation? For that the back hoe with the right size bucket would seem practical. You want to trench around the perimeter and to bury utilities from the house to the 'garage.' But, after that, what would you need a backhoe for?

I know they poured the slab for my barn (one-story 16 x 36 +/-) by hand with a little help from my little Kubota b7800 with a couple loads of gravel. As I only ran electric to it, the trench only had to be about 6" x 24" x 30' and that was dug by hand.

If you are paying cash for a piece of equipment that sits still more than it runs . . . well with lost interest and depreciation it wouldn't take long to cover the rental.

I suspect you are not planning on building a garage a year. So i would suggest you consider what you would need [the equipment] to do after the slab is poured.

Then ask the question again . . .

If it turns out you can't rent equipment economically in your 'remote' location, consider farming out the foundation work and build on top of that.

 

[smileymtn]

A
Lifetime of construction and small farm ownership. Backhoe/loader all the way. Much more versatile. Skidsteer great for tight quarters and hard ground. They're almost useless on really soft ground. Excavavators mice but limited use and mobility.
4wd nice but not really necessary unless your ground is really steep or wet. A small farm tractor or large garden tractor with mower is much more useful for pulling wagons and stuff around. I have 23 acres with flat, extremely steep, wet and dry areas so cover all the possibilities. I also have had
about every kind of tractor and dozer you can name and really more tractors than I need but just acquired over 70 + years. Once you have a backhoe you'll never know how you got along without it. Sometimes I might not use it more than a couple times a year. But, when you need it it's there. I have the 580 Case backhoe/loader, the family pet. B model Allis Chalmers with a cobbed on loader, 2n Ford that rarely is used and will probably sell and a large 399 100hp Massey Ferguson Ferguson 4wd with 8ft bushhog, full forestry cage, skidplate and 50 ton winch and nearly new emgine that I bought for half the price of the small 4wd I was looking for. That I have set up with blade for dozing and plowing my 350 ft steep 350 driveway and 7 ft snowblower which can be front or rear mounted. Just regular MTD and
Cub lawn mowers so I'm about equipped for anything.
If you have just a small place, you don't need all that but ask most anyone that's got a backhoe and 9 out of ten wouldn't be without it.
Boy that little short statement turned into an essay??? Especially since I'm selling out and moving to Florida this year !!

Smiley

 

[Williy]

For a mower for a tractor you don't need a belly mower you have
a choice of this pictured below or a brush hog instead of belly mower

willy

 

[JLinOK]

Morning folks..

I'm retired and want to build a garage with a apartment myself.. I used to do hvac and maintenance so I know a little about construction and Ive been reading.. No building inspections in my remote area of Iowa.

So I'm going back and forth about what machine would be the most versatile on my tiny acreage.. I think the skid (Case 95XT) would build a stick built garage faster and fit into small areas, but that the back hoe tractor (Case 580 4x4) could do more, but slower, bigger.. But it has a backhoe and a bucket..

I'm probably wrong about this but picked two machines that use the 4bt engine I like..

Opinions? Real life experiences?

Thanks!

I went with a 64 hp tractor and front end loader. I don't have a backhoe. While all around, the tractor is probably best for me (I use the box blade and brush hog a lot), my front end loader's hydraulics are leaking in a few places from trying to us it as a skid steer. Shrug.

 

[rScotty]

A
Lifetime of construction and small farm ownership. Backhoe/loader all the way. Much more versatile. Skidsteer great for tight quarters and hard ground. They're almost useless on really soft ground. Excavavators mice but limited use and mobility.
4wd nice but not really necessary unless your ground is really steep or wet. A small farm tractor or large garden tractor with mower is much more useful for pulling wagons and stuff around. I have 23 acres with flat, extremely steep, wet and dry areas so cover all the possibilities. I also have had
about every kind of tractor and dozer you can name and really more tractors than I need but just acquired over 70 + years. Once you have a backhoe you'll never know how you got along without it. Sometimes I might not use it more than a couple times a year. But, when you need it it's there. I have the 580 Case backhoe/loader, the family pet. B model Allis Chalmers with a cobbed on loader, 2n Ford that rarely is used and will probably sell and a large 399 100hp Massey Ferguson Ferguson 4wd with 8ft bushhog, full forestry cage, skidplate and 50 ton winch and nearly new emgine that I bought for half the price of the small 4wd I was looking for. That I have set up with blade for dozing and plowing my 350 ft steep 350 driveway and 7 ft snowblower which can be front or rear mounted. Just regular MTD and
Cub lawn mowers so I'm about equipped for anything.
If you have just a small place, you don't need all that but ask most anyone that's got a backhoe and 9 out of ten wouldn't be without it.
Boy that little short statement turned into an essay??? Especially since I'm selling out and moving to Florida this year !!

Smiley

When I retired, a lot of priorities changed. Some of it made sense, and some was a surprise. One surprise was how much I valued having a tool like a tractor or backhoe available to do projects on my own schedule. Being able to work by myself was also a surprise, as was working on a project without doing so much physical work & heavy lifting.
For the tools, and tractors outside the budget, I now had the luxury of buying used instead of new. There was enough time to to find a good deal, and also time to work on to make them reliable instead of just patching up breakdowns.
Turning a decent old tractor into a good reliable worker was easier and more enjoyable than I expected.

 

[orangeiron]

You are correct that a bh attachment can put stress on the 3 point hitch. Be sure to consider a bh that attaches to the tractor on a subframe( the arms of the 3point are usually removed). Having rented a mini excavator when my TLB was down I came to realize that the TLB has the advantage of the loader but when it comes to trenching & digging the mini excavator blows it out of the water. It’s much more maneuverable and there are attachments available for them these days. It sounds like you have the time being retired and are looking to go the most economical route. In my opinion if you’re planning on doing do it yourself and it’s financially feasible, look to acquire a mini excavator and a tractor(with remote hydraulics) with a loader(with quick-tach) and three point hitch. There is plethora of attachments on the market for the loader and three point hitch. Once you complete the project you could sell the excavator and keep the tractor for maintenance around the property. Some like renting because it can be less expensive but I feel that owning it is convenient and working it is what pays off in the long run.

 

[Leozepolusa]

Morning folks..

I'm retired and want to build a garage with a apartment myself.. I used to do hvac and maintenance so I know a little about construction and Ive been reading.. No building inspections in my remote area of Iowa.

So I'm going back and forth about what machine would be the most versatile on my tiny acreage.. I think the skid (Case 95XT) would build a stick built garage faster and fit into small areas, but that the back hoe tractor (Case 580 4x4) could do more, but slower, bigger.. But it has a backhoe and a bucket..

I'm probably wrong about this but picked two machines that use the 4bt engine I like..

Opinions? Real life experiences?

Thanks!

I have a Kubota B21 and L47 which do everything well, and I never have to rent anything. If you have consistent big jobs moving earth, a skid steer will do it faster no doubt. However, a good TLB like a Kubota where you can drop the backhoe quickly and have the 3 point available makes it the Swiss Army knife of tractors. It will do everything. Sure a skid steer does a couple of things better, but I prefer the ability to do anything at any time without worrying about renting and rushing to return a machine.

 

[Zigblazer]

I believe there are 3 main factors that will determine which would be best to suit your needs. All have their place, even a wheeled skid steer, but I don't believe acreage is the right place for that.

What do you want to do with it?
What kind of land will it be used on?
What kind of person you are? (yes a very broad category, but many things make a big difference.)

I have a history with vehicle repairs (degree in auto/diesel tech), take very good care of my equipment, and ask a lot out of my equipment. That in itself would rule out an agricultural tractor of any sorts. I've never owned an ag tractor, and only the only one I've used for more than 10 minutes is a little Deere 2210 (not counting my Deere 345 riding mower). I've worked on several, but never owned one. I worked on class 8 trucks for a while, but never worked on or operated machinery professionally.

I have put a lot of time in various heavy equipment pieces. I used to own a Case 580C TLB. Which was great until I purchased my MTL. 90%+ of the work that I've done has been earth moving, such as landscaping, trenches, building site prep, gravel moving and distribution, drain tile, etc. I live on 20 acres in Northern MN. Fairly flat ground with a creek running through the middle of my property. I'll give you my observed experiences with the various things I've owned or used a lot, but ultimately it is more important to match the owner with the right machine.

Case 580C Industrial Tractor Loader Backhoe, 50ish Hp, 2wd, 14,000lbs. Owned for 3 years. It was the first large piece of equipment I owned. I bought and sold it for $8,500. I spent roughly $2000 of repairs, maintenance, and fuel and put less than 200 hours on the machine. Strengths; it had a lot of digging and lifting power, good reach and was semi-easy to get in and out. It had a full cab with an almost useless heater and no door. It really is like an old swiss army knife, can do many things, but not really good at anything. Weaknesses; Couldn't hardly use the loader bucket to move anything unless it was really light or only needed to be moved on flat, level, dry ground. If you picked up a bucked of dirt or gravel, you were limited on where you could take it or you'd spin the tires and have to help out with the backhoe. Backhoe dug great, but needed to be moved to continue a trench every couple minutes, which was really annoying. When digging a larger area, the lack of swing meant you were very limited on where you could dump the dirt. For many, if you can only have one machine, for whatever reason, it is the best one to have. It is significantly more capable than an Ag tractor backhoe because of the power that comes with a larger engine and heavier steel that you would have to try to break something on it, but it is much heavier and can not use much for other attachments. I will never own a 2wd TLB again, but plan on buying a 4wd TLB after I sell my mini excavator.

Deere 2210 Ag Tractor Loader. 4wd 22hp 2,000lbs. Friend/Neighbors, and I probably put 100 hours on it over 10 years. I did spend a lot of time fixing it, but that was mostly due to how it was used by it's owner. Strengths; excellent mower, small, light, manuverable. It can move a mountain with the loader, but it had better be loosened first and you'd better have a lot of time on your hands. Weaknesses; small, light, breakable, weak. I would not use it to do landscaping, unless it is all I had, and had a lot of time with no money to rent something else. It was perfect (almost, he was a bit hard on it) for my neighbor.

Bobcat 325 Mini-Excavator. 27hp, 6000lb. Friend/Neighbors, and I put on 300+ hours over 10 years. I spent a lot of time fixing this one too. This was the first excavator I used, and it could do a lot, if you have time. It could dig a 6 foot trench well, as long as there wasn't any hard ground. Strengths; quick cycle times, light, capable of anything if you have time. Weaknesses; did not have a lot of digging power. It would barely scratch the hard packed clay with the teeth. Digging through this clay we have could take a really long time.

Cat 277B Multi-Terrain Loader. 80hp 11,000lb tracked skid steer. I've owned it for 7 years and put more than 800 hours on. Purchased for less than $20,000, over $10,000 in repairs since. I've pushed it past it's limits several times, and they are very high limits. I love it and could not be without a skid steer (mtl) again. Strengths; power, low ground pressure ASV tracks, can drive it almost anywhere and never get stuck, capable of doing whatever you want with the right attachment. I love the low ground pressure. I can drive it across a wet yard and barely leave a mark, or drive it down in the mud next to the creek. It drove right over the three feet of snow we had on the ground last winter. It can lift a car to load it on a trailer. It can dig into this clay enough to fill the 7ft wide bucket. I dug the hole for a septic holding tank, faster and cleaner than the installer could with his larger excavator. Weaknesses; ASV tracks, hard to get in and out, expensive to repair. The ASV tracks are great for a smooth ride and low ground pressure, but they are maintenance intensive, and expensive. It is a pain to get into and out of, and when something breaks, it costs a small fortune to fix. I replaced one drive motor, for nearly $5,000 all said and done. Cost about $1,000 to replace the head gasket (my fault, I'll try to remember to add a picture later), plus another $1000 to rebuild the head and the injectors. I still wouldn't be without one. Someday I'd like to upgrade to a 289D or 299D for a little more lifting power and more durable tracks. I've used wheeled skid steers and found they get stuck too easily, not so with these tracks.

Komatsu pc50mr-2 mini excavator. 40hp 11,000lb, rubber capped hybrid tracks, full cab with heat and A/C. Owned for 2 years now, 200 hours on it. Purchased for more than $30,000. Great machine if you need one, can't recommend it unless you actually need one because of the high price tag. It will dig anything, just slowly. Not much more to say about it. Very handy to have, but overkill for most private endeavors. Once I'm done with my big projects, it will be sold in favor of a much cheaper one, or a TLB. It is 10 times better for digging than a backhoe, and can lift things like a hoist, but that is about it.

Deere 310D Industrial tractor loader. 70hp 13,000lb, 4wd, no backhoe. Owned for 3 years, purchased for $4,000. This one I love too. I just don't use it much. It can move snow great, cab is warm enough. It can pickup anything you fit into the bucket, but is a little hard to get full scoops unless it is very loose material. It really does work great, but is very limited in it's abilities. I used it last winter after my skid's head gasket problem to put hay in for the horses using a hay spear that clamped onto the bucket. Much harder to see what you're doing that far out front, although that could be because I'm use to how well I can see what I'm doing with the skid steer. It works great to plow the driveway during the first couple storms so I don't scrape my gravel off the driveway with the plow truck. It worked great last winter for pushing the huge snow banks back. It works to pull stuck vehicles out of where they shouldn't be. For the price I paid I couldn't be happier. It is not very versatile, but can do some things very well. It too is a little hard to get into, but not as bad as the skid steer, just high steps. 4wd makes it capable of moving with a loaded bucket even when the ground is a little soft.

Everything has it's place. Things go better when using a machine that is suited for the job, but many things can be accomplished if you have enough time even with an ill suited machine. I've come to find out, that Ag tractors are really strong and great for pulling, but weak in most other areas. Yes you can dig using the loader bucket, but you need to be careful and take your time, they will break. Pulling is what they were designed to do. If you are doing ag type work mostly (field maintenance and work) with light duty stuff on the side an Ag tractor could be the perfect fit. I haven't even seen it yet, but my dad got a deere 20 series with backhoe attachment last summer. He loves it, but he is long since retired and has nothing but time. He is also only using the backhoe for digging up stumps and little stuff. Nothing heavy, and it is about the perfect machine for him to mow, snow blow his driveway, and such. He lives on the side of a hill, almost the top, and tipped over the 1 series he had several years ago within a month of buying it. He had a bunch of bags of potting soil in the bucket, raised up. But that was his first real experience using any sort of loader. If you start with AG, it is much easier to stay within the limits, vs starting with industrial and trying to limit yourself.

 

[mike69440]

A tracked skid steer is better for traction and moving material. Can't beat an excavator for digging. Then a Ag tractor for 3 Pt work.