OEM Tractor Oil vs Shell, Valvoline, Amsoil, etc.

[klm]

maybe its just me but the Kubota oil taste fishy

 

[bartjoebob]

I know this has probably been beat to death on here but does OEM Tractor oil have something magical that Shell Rotella or other standard oils do not have? They are always more expensive and "specially formulated" for their diesel engine.

What would happen if you put John Deere oil in Kubota tractor, etc? Is this a scare tactic to get you to pay more for the OEM oil to your tractor or is there something in the special sauce that makes their oil the best for their tractor?

Are all these diesel tractor engines that much different that you should use only theirs?

My dealer simply said to pick my favorite diesel oil and consider a 5w40 since I planned to use in winter and it's easier on the machine starting. Been using Rotella T6 for a few years. I tried Shaeffers one year and was surprised how much burned down. The T6 levels stay much the same all year. Am trying Valvoline Extreme Blue this year which seems to have a better addictive package than the T6. The only thing the dealer cautioned about was using the bottom shelf traveler fluids from TSC

 

[ning]

Though the op was likely referencing engine oil, I think it's worth mentioning that store-brand hydraulic fluids may differ significantly from main brand stuff.

For instance, TSC's "Premium Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid" states that it "meets J20C standards".

Meanwhile, main brand stuff eg Chevron 1000THF actually publishes the specs & test data that they meet; this may or may not justify in your mind their purchase.

 

[LightningCamaroGuy]

Where is the John Deere or Kubota oil factory located? I think they buy from the same people who make all the other engine oils in the US. If they are rated, they will work.

Yes. I think of engine oils sort of like I think of forged AR receivers. There might be 30-40 different brands of forged AR receivers on the market, but there's only like 3 or 4 companies who actually have the tooling, and are certified to make forged AR receivers that can claim to hit mil-specs and whatnot. So your cheap Anderson receiver might be made using the same tooling that is used to make a more expensive Spikes Tactical receiver, or Noveske receiver, or KAC receiver. IDK what companies any given brand uses to make their receivers, but there's only a small few manufacturers who actually make forged receivers. Now your budget receivers might have a cheaper/less fancy finish/coating or more basic/minimalist logo's and markings than your more higherend brands have payed to manufacturers to put on them, but functionally a cheap forged receiver will work as well as a much more expensive one.

Same with oil. There's only a few large companies who manufacturer engine oils for all the major oil brands. Now these manufacturers will make the oils to meet the specs, and get the additives that any brand specifies, but yeah, there are way fewer oil manufacturers than there are actual oil brands on the market. From my understanding brands like JD or Kubota will often use different brands to manufacturer different oils they sell. ConocoPhillips might make 20% of the oils JD sells, where BP/Castrol makes 25% of their oil, and Exxonmobil makes 15% of their oil, and Chevron/Texaco makes 30% of their oil, and Ashland makes the other 10% of their oil. (These are made up #'s by me to paint an analogy, and IDK who makes which oils for JD) It's based off of bidding. The large oil manufactures will bid on making any given oil product that the smaller oil brands who don't produce their own oil products sell. One manufacture might win the bid to make JD's 10W30, and 5W40 engine oil, where another manufacturer won the bid to make their 15W40 oil. The company who agrees to meet the given specs, at the lowest costs for any give oil will generally win the bid to produce it. From my understanding Ashland INC (who used to own Valvoline up until 2017 when Saudi Aramco bought Valvoline from them) makes a lot of Kubota's oils, but IDK for sure.

 

[MHarryE]

My dealer said we can't go by the book in our area. Too cold. 5W-40 synthetic for years, but now New Holland has a 0W-40 which is preferred. One of my neighbors was using 15W-40 which he was told to use year around, until he blew a crankshaft seal. New Holland told him they would replace one under warranty, but never use 15W-40 in our area again (he used it as a feeding tractor, block heater plugged in but that heats engine coolant, not oil). Transmission oil is a different thing, not dictated by API like CK-4 diesel engine oil.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Yeah, I was wondering about the hydrostatic tractor fluid. I was talking to my Kubota mechanic about the fluids I should use in my new tractor. He comes to my house and does all my regular maintenance like oil changes and other general things that need to be done on a regular basis. I asked him if I needed to use Kubota's high dollar lubricants if I wanted it to last a long time. He told me as far as motor oil was concerned to use a good quality oil that is in the correct weight range and specs, and I would be good. But he did say it would be best to use Kubota's brand in the Hydro fluid. He didn't say why he just said there is something in their oil that those Hydros liked. I have about 40 more hours to go before it needs to be changed and have a couple other things that need to be checked and was wondering if I really needed to use their hydro fluid. When he comes buy to do regular maintenance things he goes away from here with between $450 and $500. I know I could do it cheaper doing it myself just not sure about the transmission fluid.

Both my Kubota's are due for an HST oil change. I got sticker shock when I found the UDT2 oil alone was going to cost $700! Add the price of the filters, and I'm close to $1K, even if I do the work myself!

 

[wrenchit]

My Kubota in my skid steer calls for 10w30 and claims the use of 15w40 can result in engine damage. Went to the local Kubota dealer to get their special oil, and they tried to sell me Kohler 10w30 which has a diesel rating.

Kohler and Kawasaki's oil are made by the same manufacturer.
I learned that at one of the engine service schools.
They also contain zinc, which can poison a gas engine's catalytic converter.
They are all I use in small engine repairs at my shop so those two are all I will use.
I also repair Ventracs and use their pricey oil and OEM filters.
With a catastrophic failure and when the oil tested comes back as their own, sometimes they will cover all replacement parts even after the expired warranty.
This is only on a case-by-case repair though, not across the board.
I use Rotella T4 in the old turbo diesels.
I am a firm believer of the old adage, that you get what you pay for.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Yes. I think of engine oils sort of like I think of forged AR receivers. There might be 30-40 different brands of forged AR receivers on the market, but there's only like 3 or 4 companies who actually have the tooling, and are certified to make forged AR receivers that can claim to hit mil-specs and whatnot. So your cheap Anderson receiver might be made using the same tooling that is used to make a more expensive Spikes Tactical receiver, or Noveske receiver, or KAC receiver. IDK what companies any given brand uses to make their receivers, but there's only a small few manufacturers who actually make forged receivers. Now your budget receivers might have a cheaper/less fancy finish/coating or more basic/minimalist logo's and markings than your more higherend brands have payed to manufacturers to put on them, but functionally a cheap forged receiver will work as well as a much more expensive one.

Same with oil. There's only a few large companies who manufacturer engine oils for all the major oil brands. Now these manufacturers will make the oils to meet the specs, and get the additives that any brand specifies, but yeah, there are way fewer oil manufacturers than there are actual oil brands on the market. From my understanding brands like JD or Kubota will often use different brands to manufacturer different oils they sell. ConocoPhillips might make 20% of the oils JD sells, where BP/Castrol makes 25% of their oil, and Exxonmobil makes 15% of their oil, and Chevron/Texaco makes 30% of their oil, and Ashland makes the other 10% of their oil. (These are made up #'s by me to paint an analogy, and IDK who makes which oils for JD) It's based off of bidding. The large oil manufactures will bid on making any given oil product that the smaller oil brands who don't produce their own oil products sell. One manufacture might win the bid to make JD's 10W30, and 5W40 engine oil, where another manufacturer won the bid to make their 15W40 oil. The company who agrees to meet the given specs, at the lowest costs for any give oil will generally win the bid to produce it. From my understanding Ashland INC (who used to own Valvoline up until 2017 when Saudi Aramco bought Valvoline from them) makes a lot of Kubota's oils, but IDK for sure.

I machine my own receivers, typically you match my uppers... Too bad I've not yet perfected my oil refining.

 

[LightningCamaroGuy]

I machine my own receivers, typically you match my uppers... Too bad I've not yet perfected my oil refining.

I've got a friend I work with who does 0% AR builds as well. I don't for 3 reasons.

-I prefer forged receivers to billet.

-Forged AR receivers are cheap, and I live about 20 minutes from the main PSA store in Columbia, SC.

-I'm a Tool Maker/Die Builder by trade, and don't want to make a hobby of machining as I do it at work all day. Kind of like a lot of auto mechanics aren't auto enthusiasts as they get tires of turning wrenches all day for $.

I will say I don't buy my AK's, and I build them. I tried to do a 0% AK build, but keeping the receiver flat in the HT is a straight up B word. Even if you get it all riveted together afterwards to where it functions fine for an AK, you still see bulges and bows in it. You need a good HT setup to keep it flat, so I just stick with the Childers 80%, post HT receivers as they've all been perfect. I prefer to just assemble my AR's and build my AK's.

 

[jyoutz]

Good deal, and thanks. I might have to check it out sometime. I'm always shown the blue bottle from Valvoline in Googe searches. Right now I already have bought some synthetic Chevron Delo for my next oil change, as I found it on sale for a good deal last year, and bought it in bulk.

I've started running that new "Valvoline: Restore and Protect" oil in all my gas vehicles. Valvoline is definitely some of my favorite oil, and generally the brand I use for modern ATF fluids like LV or ULV fluids(I prefer Redline D4 for systems that use older, regular ATF fluid) and gear oils, etc.

I buy that synthetic Valvoline diesel oil at the local Cummins shop and the price isn’t bad.

 

[Brianczaw]

“

maybe its just me but the Kubota oil taste fishy

True but it has a lot of good omega 3 fatty acids.

 

[Hodado]

I think if you put JD oil in your Kubota it would turn green which would be an improvement

 

[mike5511]

Yes. I think of engine oils sort of like I think of forged AR receivers. There might be 30-40 different brands of forged AR receivers on the market, but there's only like 3 or 4 companies who actually have the tooling, and are certified to make forged AR receivers that can claim to hit mil-specs and whatnot. So your cheap Anderson receiver might be made using the same tooling that is used to make a more expensive Spikes Tactical receiver, or Noveske receiver, or KAC receiver. IDK what companies any given brand uses to make their receivers, but there's only a small few manufacturers who actually make forged receivers. Now your budget receivers might have a cheaper/less fancy finish/coating or more basic/minimalist logo's and markings than your more higherend brands have payed to manufacturers to put on them, but functionally a cheap forged receiver will work as well as a much more expensive one.

Same with oil. There's only a few large companies who manufacturer engine oils for all the major oil brands. Now these manufacturers will make the oils to meet the specs, and get the additives that any brand specifies, but yeah, there are way fewer oil manufacturers than there are actual oil brands on the market. From my understanding brands like JD or Kubota will often use different brands to manufacturer different oils they sell. ConocoPhillips might make 20% of the oils JD sells, where BP/Castrol makes 25% of their oil, and Exxonmobil makes 15% of their oil, and Chevron/Texaco makes 30% of their oil, and Ashland makes the other 10% of their oil. (These are made up #'s by me to paint an analogy, and IDK who makes which oils for JD) It's based off of bidding. The large oil manufactures will bid on making any given oil product that the smaller oil brands who don't produce their own oil products sell. One manufacture might win the bid to make JD's 10W30, and 5W40 engine oil, where another manufacturer won the bid to make their 15W40 oil. The company who agrees to meet the given specs, at the lowest costs for any give oil will generally win the bid to produce it. From my understanding Ashland INC (who used to own Valvoline up until 2017 when Saudi Aramco bought Valvoline from them) makes a lot of Kubota's oils, but IDK for sure.

You are correct. Anybody that sells oil and doesn't make it, buys it from those who do make it. And, it is purchased by bid. (because there is profit involved) The only way you can know who is making what for who is if you know who won the latest bid. As someone has already said, bobistheoilguy.com is your go to for information about oil, and The Motor Oil Geek on youtube.

 

[charlessenf]

What would happen if you put John Deere oil in Kubota tractor

It would run like the rising sun?

Seriously, engines are engines and oil is oil is oil.

Bottom line? Capitalism is the same the world over. Hype is 'legal' and hype is what distinguishes most oily substances one from the other. That and Standardized Testing to assess whether oily substance A performs at or below standards established to distinguish between 'grades' of oil stuff:

• The American Petroleum Institute (API) classifies engine oils by their performance against wear, oxidation, and corrosion. The standard uses two letters, with "S" for gasoline engines and "C" for diesel engines. The second letter indicates the oil's performance, with later letters in the alphabet indicating higher quality. For example, an SH oil is lower quality than an SN oil.
  
  
• SAE
  The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) grades engine oils by their viscosity, or how thick they are. SAE uses a numerical coding system with two numbers to indicate the oil's viscosity at different temperatures:
  
  
• • Diesel fuel
    The US EPA regulates the sulfur levels in diesel fuel. In 1993, the EPA began regulating sulfur levels, and in 2006, they began phasing in stricter regulations to lower the sulfur content to 15 parts per million (ppm).
    

You can find the oil standard required for your vehicle in your owner's handbook or by using LubConsult.

 

[Rockbadchild]

This ''probably'' goes for all brand and equipment's, while compagnies doesn’t manufacture the oil themselves, they work with oil companies to create formulations designed to meet the specific demands of their engines that was tested on their engines like operating temperture, foaming resistance and viscosity. The base oil come from a supplier who won the bid yes, but the additive package and blending process are customized to meet the OEM’s exact specifications. OEMs don’t just pick any oil off a shelf or lowest bid of the day they work with suppliers to ensure the oil is tested and tailored for their equipment. Yes their are superior and cheaper oil.

The oil company formulates a base oil and adds custom additive packages as specified by lets say John Deere.
This proprietary blend is produced under contract, ensuring it meets John Deere's performance requirements.
then it undergoes testing and Quality Control before an oil gets the John Deere name.

1. Lab Testing:
   • The oil undergoes rigorous testing in labs for viscosity, oxidation stability, and thermal resistance.
2. Engine Testing:
   • It's tested in real John Deere engines under various conditions to verify performance.
3. Field Testing:
   • The oil is used in real-world scenarios to ensure it meets the demands of customers.

If the oil passes these tests, it earns John Deere's branding.

That above is what you pay for, you pay for the peace of mind that you are using tested oil that undergo through a quality controlled process specifically for the equipment.

 

[pacosperson]

I know this has probably been beat to death on here but does OEM Tractor oil have something magical that Shell Rotella or other standard oils do not have? They are always more expensive and "specially formulated" for their diesel engine.

What would happen if you put John Deere oil in Kubota tractor, etc? Is this a scare tactic to get you to pay more for the OEM oil to your tractor or is there something in the special sauce that makes their oil the best for their tractor?

Are all these diesel tractor engines that much different that you should use only theirs?

Of course they are machine builders, not refiners. They simply tell petroleum packagers what to blend into their oil, IF they have a specific request in the first place. I spent many years in petroleum packaging, NOT refining of blending Initially I thought ‘WOW. Now I’ll know who has the highest oil standards, they must be making the best engines, too.’ I was wrong. Those who did the actual formulation of the oils pointed out engine builders with incredibly high standards may require the very best oil because they know their engines are weak. And the ones who will guarantee their engines with any off the shelf oil likely know their engine quality is extremely high. So I couldn’t learn much even when I had all the manufacturers requirement available.

I’ve been in all the plants. Valvoline, Quaker State, Mobil, Castrol, Pennzoil, Warren, Wolfs Head, Kendall, Shell, Pemex. The blenders and packagers all tended to say the same things. They say there is not a huge difference in branded oils. Quality control is very high, no one can afford to allow anything substandard to go out. Buy the latest API classification. It has the best ingredients. When given a choice ALWAYS select the oil with the highest zinc content. (that may take some hunting) It is very much more important to keep your oil clean, changed regularly, and to never let your engine overheat. I never put fuel to my engine(s) until oil pressure has built up. My default acceptable is 20 PSI when cranking. At that point I believe the mains and rods have oil in them.

One more hint. Look at the cases of oil where you make your purchases. The plant that made the case has its location on the bottom of the box. Empty corrugated boxes are not shipped very far. So if two “brands” have the same source of corrugated box you can guess the same plant packaged both “brands”. It’s just a clue.

 

[RandyT]

Kohler and Kawasaki's oil are made by the same manufacturer.
I learned that at one of the engine service schools.
They also contain zinc, which can poison a gas engine's catalytic converter.
They are all I use in small engine repairs at my shop so those two are all I will use.
I also repair Ventracs and use their pricey oil and OEM filters.
With a catastrophic failure and when the oil tested comes back as their own, sometimes they will cover all replacement parts even after the expired warranty.
This is only on a case-by-case repair though, not across the board.
I use Rotella T4 in the old turbo diesels.
I am a firm believer of the old adage, that you get what you pay for.

So Kohler and Kawasaki are made by Quaker state. Or unless they have changed the Kohler oils were Quaker state. Not sure about the new synthetic oils especially the new extended service oils. I think they are Amsoil.

I have used the Stens branded oil along with the PD distibuted Kinetix for years. this year going to the new Briggs Vanguard synthetic oils. All small engine formulated oils have Zinc (ZTTP) along with some diesel rated oils.

 

[DarkBlack]

All small engine formulated oils have Zinc (ZTTP) along with some diesel rated oils.

All motor oils have zinc and phosphorus in them, of varying amounts
Gasoline engine rated oils of viscosities below 10w-30 are limited to 800ppm
10w-30 and heavier viscosity gasoline engine oils , are allowed higher levels, as are racing and small engine oils, as well as diesel oils. Typical diesel oils top out at 1,200 ppm.
Many diesel oils now are being reformulated to a dual Compression and Spark rating. They require reduced zinc and phosphorus to meet the gasoline rating. Doesn’t mean they don’t work well, they’re using other additives other than zinc and phosphorus to compensate for the reduced levels
I’m still buying diesel only rated oils as long as they’re available, for this reason

 

[kioti28527]

I know this has probably been beat to death on here but does OEM Tractor oil have something magical that Shell Rotella or other standard oils do not have? They are always more expensive and "specially formulated" for their diesel engine.

What would happen if you put John Deere oil in Kubota tractor, etc? Is this a scare tactic to get you to pay more for the OEM oil to your tractor or is there something in the special sauce that makes their oil the best for their tractor?

Are all these diesel tractor engines that much different that you should use only theirs?

All i use in my kioti is tractor supplies Traveller Diesel Tractor oil for the past 7years and change it every year,i dont think that a tractor company has an oil refinery plant making a specific oil but just rebranded oil from another manufacturer with a rebranded price tag

 

[mx842]

Both my Kubota's are due for an HST oil change. I got sticker shock when I found the UDT2 oil alone was going to cost $700! Add the price of the filters, and I'm close to $1K, even if I do the work myself!

Holy s!*$$ batman I wish you hadn't said that.LOL Having said that you can get the same stuff on Amazon. I think it's right at $100 for a 2.5 gal pail and the filter is something like $38. My 3301 takes I think right at 14 gal so a 2.5 pail plus a 1 gal jug would do. I think the gallon jug was $58 so you might be better off buying 2, 2.5-gallon pails and have some for use later on.