Loader Adding a grapple to my DK45SE

[tpulley]

Coming into this thread a little late but jsut FYI. The DK45 has 16.8 GPM total gear pump flow, but 6.5 gallon is for steering and Hydro charge pressure if HST. The loader and future grapple are only 10 GPM, so save your extra $100.

Maybe I tend to over think things, but do they take the steering and Hydro charge into consideration when they size it up?

OK... I think I have it now...

On my Dk45 I do have a two ports for the remotes. So I need a set of hoses that go to a 2 spool compact Joystick control valve. Then I need another set of hoses to go from the compact joystick control valve to the grapple hyd cyclinder. Lastly I need a mounting plate to hold the compact joystick control valve in place.

Does this sound right? If so I like this idea as this also allows me the ability to easily set up my post driver I bought that I have yet to build/put togher minus the hyrdraulics.

You guys recommended the 9-7401 from surplus center.

If this is right I am on my way to the store (so to speak)... Lastly though how do I know which hose goes where coming from the remotes on the rear of the tractor?

 

[adjusterr]

After reading your posts, I'm not sure whether or not you have a backhoe on your tractor. If you do, before you spend big bucks on a hydraulic grapple, check out Bro-Tek: Tractor Add Ons. I bought one several years ago and it workd like a charm. Check out the videos on their website. If you don't have a hoe attachment, take the money you would spend on a hydraulic grapple and buy a used hoe then spend about $300. for a Bro-tek thumb. I have used mine for lifting rocks, brush and today, 25' logs for firewood cutting. Here's a pic of my set-up. Good luck.

 

[Coyote machine]

Maybe I tend to over think things, but do they take the steering and Hydro charge into consideration when they size it up?

OK... I think I have it now...

On my Dk45 I do have a two ports for the remotes. So I need a set of hoses that go to a 2 spool compact Joystick control valve. Then I need another set of hoses to go from the compact joystick control valve to the grapple hyd cyclinder. Lastly I need a mounting plate to hold the compact joystick control valve in place.

Does this sound right? If so I like this idea as this also allows me the ability to easily set up my post driver I bought that I have yet to build/put togher minus the hyrdraulics.

You guys recommended the 9-7401 from surplus center.

If this is right I am on my way to the store (so to speak)... Lastly though how do I know which hose goes where coming from the remotes on the rear of the tractor?

One correction: you need your hoses from your grapple joystick to terminate somewhere on the front of the tractor loader where you will connect another pair of quick disconnects to connect to the male disconnects coming from the grapple, to your hoses from the joystick. The way to keep straight what hose goes to what when hooking up or disconnecting is to mark one hyd hose from the rear remote forward with a specific color cable tie. Keep it consistent and use one on each side of the disconnect, (one on male end and one on connected female end) from rear remote right up to grapple input hoses. This takes out the guess work. Take a look under the right side of the tractor where the loader's hyd hoses connect and you should see various colored quick connect female and male hose end connectors. This is the same idea, and there should be corresponding cable ties on the fittings to minimize confusion as to what goes where.

 

[IslandTractor]

Tpulley, I've looked back over this thread to remind myself what your goals are with this grapple bucket project. I'm a bit confused now as I don't understand why the discussion has moved to installing a diverter valve. Are you aware that you really don't need to add any valve? You only need four quick connect fittings and two hydraulic hoses to operate a grapple arm. You don't need a diverter valve as the DK45ae already has a valve to control the rear remotes so you can use that to control the grapple directly. I did it that way on my first tractor and it is absolutely satisfactory. In many ways I prefer that to use of a diverter. In particular, the DK rear remote lever is spring loaded which makes feathering easy and the location of the control lever is perfect to permit easy movement of your hand to and from the loader joystick. If I had to do it again that is how I'd set mine up. You could install the hoses and be using your grapple in about half an hour. Ziptie the lines in place initially and then later you can pretty things up with more permanent hose clamps and fitting plates. Total cost should be about $100-200 depending on where you get the hoses and fittings.

Diverter valves are a common solution but they are most useful if the tractor doesn't have existing rear remotes or if the control lever is inconvenient. Your DK is perfectly set up already direct from the factory however so there is no strong reason to waste time, effort and money on a diverter or electric over hydraulic set up. In many ways these things are fads unless a tractor has no other way to control front hydraulics.

You can get all the supplies from discount surplus Internet sites if you know the fitting terminology or pay a bit more from a local hydraulic shop. Michigan Iron sells a very nice complete kit for a split system for about $300 with all the mounts etc so you can remove the loader without removing the hydraulic lines. Very nice kit but as most of us don't remove our loaders much I would ask MIE for an unsplit setup kit. It might take an extra half hour to remove and reinstall each time you dismount the loader but for most of us that will be once every three or four years.

 

[tpulley]

IslandTractor, this is exactly what I was trying to understand. In my mind at first I thought this might be the case but I kinda got confused when the other things got introduced, including why the dealer wanted to charge me $4200 for the setup + bucket. Good reading but not what I want to accomplish.

I think this being the cheapest and easiest solution would be the way I would go.

When using the rear remote lever its my understanding that would make it open and close. I think someone elduded to tho this in an earlier post but it didn't sink in.

This seems to also be the exact setup also I need when I put together the post driver I bought a year or so ago that I will need to use in the next few months to put up some 4 acres of trellis's.

Thanks very much for this information.

Let me also say thanks to all for the posts, it gives me a lot more information about hydraulics that helps me now and in future projects.

 

[IslandTractor]

I'd say that tractor hydraulics are almost universally the most confusing part of early tractor ownership. We all tend to focus on diesel engines, horsepower, fancy features, loaders, mowers etc etc while making a purchase decision. Only after the purchase do we realize how critical hydraulics are to tractor operation and maintenance and it is usually at that point that new owners realize the only aspect of hydraulics they understand is where the dipstick is to check fluid. We don't know what precise fluid is required, what tractor functions are hydraulic and we certainly don't understand valves or pumps. As you are learning, this changes pretty quickly once the tractor is in your driveway and you actually start using it to do more than just mow. Other than reading the manual and perhaps one of the many hydraulic primers on the internet, posing questions here on TBN is about the best way to build your knowledge base. Don't be afraid to post naive questions. Indeed, you can get in trouble by asking a "sophisticated" question if you really don't understand the big picture as someone like JJ will give you a perfectly valid response that might be wrong for you because he didn't know what you were trying to accomplish.

Some dealers are better than others on the topic of hydraulics. Beware the friendly salesman's advice! They frequently don't understand the nuts and bolts of hydraulics. Likewise, while hydraulic shops certainly know hydraulics, they don't necessarily know compact tractors as that is a very small part of their business. I've had one great dealer (Wallace Tractor) who was very helpful and one (out of business) that provided me with the life lesson about not relying on a tractor salesman for hydraulics. Michigan Iron is someone who is active on TBN and runs both a Kioti dealership and a custom fabricaton business with lots of hydraulic experience on CUTs. Either of them can put together a good do it yourself kit to install and secure the hoses and fittings necessary to get your grapple and post hole digger working. Again, I would advise a simple full length hose installation rather than split hoses as it greatly simplifies installation and will cut cost by almost half.

 

[tpulley]

Boy does it get more confusing to each new person I talk to.

I called my dealer today to find out if they make the hoses I need. The mechanic in the back calls me back and said that I should not do it this way. he said it would burn up the pump as it has no way to return the fluid back to the resevoir. He said that if it were this easy everyone would be using it instead of buying the kits previously discussed on this post. He said it would void the warranty. He did say he would call Kioti and verify what he thought.

The guy calls me back and said Kioti said that my tractor the DK45se doesn't have the right valve for this. I would need a different valve that also adds a second pair of remotes to the back. He also told me that if I were using the post driver that we would have to rig a way to dump the oil back to the resv. He said that if I used the remotes in the back and went straight to the grapple it would void the warranty as per Kioti.

He did say he would call Kioti and find out what the other valve would cost. If its close to the cost of the 3 junction valve kit sold by everything attachments I will probably go with the 3rd junction valve only because I think the single button to open and close the grapple arm would be slightly easier to operate.

I really liked the idea of only having to get the two lines though. Oh well... I am still learning a lot. By the time this is all said and done I think I will finally "get it". Hopefully anyway.

 

[IndyIan]

Boy does it get more confusing to each new person I talk to.

I called my dealer today to find out if they make the hoses I need. The mechanic in the back calls me back and said that I should not do it this way. he said it would burn up the pump as it has no way to return the fluid back to the resevoir. He said that if it were this easy everyone would be using it instead of buying the kits previously discussed on this post. He said it would void the warranty. He did say he would call Kioti and verify what he thought.

The guy calls me back and said Kioti said that my tractor the DK45se doesn't have the right valve for this. I would need a different valve that also adds a second pair of remotes to the back. He also told me that if I were using the post driver that we would have to rig a way to dump the oil back to the resv. He said that if I used the remotes in the back and went straight to the grapple it would void the warranty as per Kioti.

He did say he would call Kioti and find out what the other valve would cost. If its close to the cost of the 3 junction valve kit sold by everything attachments I will probably go with the 3rd junction valve only because I think the single button to open and close the grapple arm would be slightly easier to operate.

I really liked the idea of only having to get the two lines though. Oh well... I am still learning a lot. By the time this is all said and done I think I will finally "get it". Hopefully anyway.

I think the confusion is that 1st factory remote lever has the detents so it can be switched "on" and stays "on" in either direction. I was told this was to run something like a wood splitter with its own open centre valve, otherwise leaving it on just trips the relief valve. But I think you can run a cylinder off of it as long as you always return it to the middle. With the detents its probably not the easiest to use to run a grapple but when I get my hyd top link next week I'll try it in both the detent valve and the 2nd non-detent valve. Maybe you can disable the detent on the first valve lever as well?
Or I guess you could use the 1st remote by adding an open centre valve for the grapple, maybe in a better location.

 

[steve0413]

This thread is making me :confused2:. LOL

I'm not going to give advice, but let you know how my grapple works just FYI.

(1) I have two sets of remotes on my tractor
(2) One set of remotes is operated using the detent lever (C & D I believe)...this one operates my backhoe
(3) The other set of remotes is operated using the other lever with no detent (A & B I think)....this one operates the cylinder on my grapple....I have two hydraulic lines running all the way from the rear remotes to the grapple and yes, the fluid is returned to the reservoir

It's quiet simple or I couldn't have done it.

 

[IslandTractor]

This thread is making me :confused2:. LOL

I'm not going to give advice, but let you know how my grapple works just FYI.

(1) I have two sets of remotes on my tractor
(2) One set of remotes is operated using the detent lever (C & D I believe)...this one operates my backhoe
(3) The other set of remotes is operated using the other lever with no detent (A & B I think)....this one operates the cylinder on my grapple....I have two hydraulic lines running all the way from the rear remotes to the grapple and yes, the fluid is returned to the reservoir

It's quiet simple or I couldn't have done it.

Yes it is that simple. However, you can even use the remote that has the detents (C& D in your set up). The only thing is that in operating a grapple you don't leave the lever stuck on the detent, you push it towards the detent to open or close then return it to neutral. I did it that way with my CK20 which as I recall did not have a spring loaded lever. Just like in a car with manual transmission: select first to go forward, reverse to backup and neutral when you are not wanting to move. You can leave it in the detent position for a little while without causing harm so it is not like the thing is delicate but you shouldn't leave it locked open (in either position) when you are using a simple hydraulic cylinder just like you shouldn't leave it open when there is nothing attached.

The mechanic probably is concerned that someone would open the grapple and leave the remote in the on position for a long time rather than returning it to neutral. Fair point but hardly a reason to claim the sky would fall if you controlled your grapple with the remote.

I have two rear remotes on my DK40se. One has a simple detent type lever and the other has a spring loaded lever that tries to return to neutral unless you push it all the way to the detent position. It is this latter lever that would be most useful for controlling a grapple. I am not sure if it is the standard or my additional lever. Someone without two rear remotes can tell us.