Advice on project

[jsduke]

Hello all.

My neighbor has asked me to help level the inside of his currently under construction pole garage. With the bottom pressure treated 2x10 even (and level) with the highest point of the grade, the rest of the area inside is up to 12 inches lower. He naturally needs to bring the low areas up to the board. A slab is planned as well.

He's asked for some 3/4-1 inch gravel (no fines) which was mistakenly(wrong stuff) delivered to my place for a project I was undertaking some time back. It was cheaper for them to give it to me rather than pick it up. I have no problem giving him the gravel. I also would be required to transport, place and rough grade the stuff. I am glad to help him as we've assisted each other many times over the years.

With that said, I have several concerns and questions.

First: The stuff really won't compact well and he's going to have a slab poured on top within a week or 2. He shrugs off any suggestions of trouble stating he'll just patch-up any problems.

Second: I'll need to carry the stuff 1/5 mile over less than baby-bottom smooth surfaces (mildly rutted gravel drives and a somewhat variable dirt road). I can carry 1200 -1400 lbs. a trip. I have a heavy rear blade that I normally keep on for ballast but I have done loader work without it (loaded rears).
In this case I may have to leave the blade off due to maneuverability and access issues with the target structure. My big concen here is the beating my tractor is gonna take in transporting this. Is this abuse? Worse with or without the blade?

Third: Because his entrance door framing is 2-3 inches below the height of my ROPS I'd have to fold it for access. I've been on this patch of ground doing some smoothing and clean-up (it's fill dirt/rock) before the pole garage was started. It's pretty even (no 'tilty' travelling) yet I'm a bit uncomfortable about ROPSless loader work /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

If I were to take this on I would transport all the material first to an area near the site, fold the ROPS (and drop the blade if used) and then carefully fill/grade the inside of the structure.

Any comments, suggestions and cautions are appreciated.

Thanks. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

duke.

 

[Soundguy]

I wouldn't pour concrete over gravel... I would rather have it over a compacted subgrade.. either undisturbed soil.. or compacted fill. Only in very specific situations would you want unconsolidated material under your concrete.. and in those situations.. you do the footer and slab support differently anyway.. ( some drainage issues.. etc.. )


Compact some clean fill in ther.. use a jumpingjack to compact it.. you can rent them at most industrial tool suppliers..

Your geography and site location and conditions will directly impact what you do, etc.

Soundguy

 

[Junkman]

He may be a neighbor and you might have helped out each other in the past, but this time, I think that what he is asking of you isn't reasonable. You are going to be beating up your tractor and in the end, if it gets damaged, is he going to pay the repair costs? I think that he should get the material delivered to his site and then get the proper tool to do the job of placing it into the pole barn. If something were to happen and the tractor flipped over, without the ROPS, you could be seriously hurt. I would be using a Bobcat type machine for this. It is the right tool for the job. Since he doesn't want to listen to reason about the use of the wrong material, I would be conveniently busy when this project is scheduled. That way, when it goes wrong, you will not be a part of it and can't be blamed for anything that goes wrong with it. It is better to walk away and continue the friendship than get involved in a project that you know won't come out correctly in the end.

 

[GerardC]

I would go as far as getting the material to an area close to the site as you stated and let him worry about getting it inside the building. Explain to him that you are not comfortable with your ROPS down. He should be understanding with that. If not, it's your call at that point as he's your neighbor and you know him best. G

 

[stephan]

Seems to me you'd be best to use a trailer or get the neighbor to use a trailer and you load it. A FEL is exactly that a loader not a transport device. As to the ROPS if the ground is relatively level, and it seems it is, you shouldn't worry yourself. Yes people have died from no ROPS but that is generally by trying to pull something too high on the tractor or rolling on uneven ground. I reckon you'd be safe in a barn.

I once hired a small Kubota (to see if it was what I was after) and rolled it when the front tyre fell into a wombat hole. Fortunately the FEL prevented a full rollover (I had it in the air at the time) and was held up on a wire fence. I solved that problem by buying a tractor with larger diameter front wheels...

Anyhow it does give you quite a scare and I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[EddieWalker]

I agree with the others, don't get involved with building a project that is going to fail.

Why did he want material that wont compact?

If he insists on using the wrong type of rock, have him foot the bill moving it. He got the rock for free anyway.

If if was too much effort for the rock company to come and move it, would it be allot of effort for you as well?

 

[jsduke]

Thanks all.

The reason he wants my gravel and help is budget.

Is the tractor really gonna take a beating, even if I move slowly?

The only other option that I can see is to load my Ford half-ton, transport and shovel it out on site (good grief!).

duke.

 

[MarkV]

How about having him rent a dump trailer to shuttle things over to site. You have a capable tractor but man, you are going to be doing a bunch of trips.

MarkV

 

[Buzz_Sawyer]

How much gravel you talkin about? Around here it would be much cheaper and quicker to order another load and be done with it gravel of that type costs me $5 a ton....really a non isue ...by the way sand and fine gravel have 0 compaction so will not cause settling under concrete...

 

[Junkman]

Buzz...... where is "around here"??? I looked on the map and I can't find it in any of the states. Checked the post office site and no zip code either???? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[RobS]

Hey, I like the rented dump trailer option. Get's his financial interest plus it will be waaaaay easier than unloading a pickup or trying to haul all the stuff in your tractor bucket. The material is sitting there at no charge right now, right? Surely then he could cough up some money for a dump trailer. Beyond that I see nothing but wear and tear on your tractor with no sweat off his back /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[fractal]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Hey, I like the rented dump trailer option. )</font>
Me too.

 

[jsduke]

My half-ton is a Ranger w/ high gear rear and 5 speed. One ton tow capacity. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

His truck is a brand new Dakota V-6 sans hitch. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

It would be best to order in the right stuff and have it dumped at his site. I guess I could still place/grade it.

Thanks.

duke.

P.S. Gravel around here runs approx 7 -10 a ton. Minimum 17 ton (tandem), 22 ton (tri-ax).

 

[TC18guy]

i thought i'd offer my 2 cents....

I once rented a dump trailer, it cost me about $150 for the day. I worked 3/4 of a day. The trailer was way to heavy for my 1/2 ton F150 plus I had to make 2 extra trips to transport the tractor back & forth. A far better use of my time & money would have been to have a load brought in.

How big is the barn you are working in. You've got a pretty big tractor. By the time you start dumping some material inside, you will have an uneven grade to work on and no room to maneuver. It seems to me it will end up being a lot of hand work.

I'd consider renting a hand compactor from a local rental store before filling with concrete.

 

[carluman]

I suppose rock is different prices around the states but here in SE Iowa it is around $150 for tandem axle truck load (don't remember the tonnage).

As for using the rock it is a BIG mistake. Use some fill sand and the future of the floor will be much better. Ask any respectable contractor.

 

[BotaGuy]

1. I always see sand in pole sheds before they pour the floor.

2. Your tractor is designed to handle rock better than your Ranger.

 

[polecat]

In most cases and how good u are unless you have a 5 point levellling blade you are going to have to do some hand levelling..compacted material is much better to put your forms but hey its a pole barn...i would put your forms in(plywood whatever ) on the three wall sides and then put in whatever u have to use to keep within the budget...get him to have the levelling material dropped off..i have a 6' bucket on my iseki tl3201 and believe me u are going ot make a bunch of trips!!!! if he doesnt have the$$ for the fill take a few trips back and forth with your counter weight on and put all the stuff in the front of the pbarn and then when the front of the pbarn is evenly filled with one load a piece per section lower yer rops and push it in keeping yer !!!!!FEL LOW WHEN FULL OF WEIGHT!!!....then gogit another set of loads..I know how u feel bout helpin out others but you have to weigh how much he has helped u!!!..i have one friend that locally uses my iseki anytime he wants but we have an agreement!!! he knows that it costs $150-200 a day to rent acut like mine but it always comes back full of diesel and if he breaks something he pays for it and if i need help on ANYTHING he comes a runnin...it's very nice having an extra hand for big jobs and right now he owes me bout 2 full days of labor and $100.oo for a ram he blew last week and he gits paid this week and i know he''l b here this wknd wihth $$ and to help me on a fencin and retaining wall/ project... once this dadgumn rain stops ...(4 days straight...and oh yeah.....iv'e seen many a pbarn cement floor set on jist uncompacted stone but the kicker and ???'s you guys have to ask yourselves is will their be any washing out of the dirt that supports the gravel floor??? and what is yer frost line???once done leveling...put up yer front form for the concrete and pjut a little more gravel in to level up the void in the frront...if u dont put yer side and back forms in first you are going to havea hell of a time gittin em in..lotsa hand diggin
GOOD LUCK
TODD /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Buzz_Sawyer]

JUNKMAN
Lets see from CT turm west and head for anytown usa then head down main street and its cady corner from the post office there
(S/W Illinois)

 

[polecat]

Zion???? walkeegan ???cmon dude he's not askin 4 yer street address jist a hint as 2 where ....idunno is ??? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Phred]

Well you may be able to rent a dump truck. Some places have small single axel dump trucks for rent. You may need a CDL if you are planning to travel on roads.

Another option is to use your tractor to haul the dump trailer.

I have moved a huge amount of lime and gravel with my tractor and dump trailer / or a rented lime buggy.
You can use the tractor to load the trailer and then put a 2" or 2 5/16" ball on the tow bar and pull the trailer.

But I think your problem is that your tractor is marginal for the task. I load the lime buggy without a rear ballast beacuse it takes forever to hook up the three point ballast, load trailer, unhook three point ballast, hook up trailer, repeat....
They only way I get away with this is my tractor weighs the better part of 10K lbs and I take small bits with the loader.

What ever you do, I would not drop the ROPS. Just to much potential to get hurt in order save a few bucks.

Another though:
Rent a bobcat and a dump trailer. You can use your tractor to pull the dump trailer and your buddy can load with the bobcat. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Around here you can get a bobcat for a weekend for about $125 plus delivery cost.
Just keep the loads small. Your tractor is no match for a full dump trailer of gravel.

Fred