Amsoil vs. Delvac 1

[ScottF]

Well, Ive been reading the post on this forum for over a year now, just now decided to sign up and jump in!

Anyway, I've read most of the post regarding the synthetic vs. pet. oil debate and noticed very few people out there are using Mobile Delvac 1 - any reason why or why not? I can see that a lot of you guys like Amsoil - personally I've only used Mobil synthetic lubricants so I don't have any experience with Amsoil (not that available in S. Louisiana - except by internet)

This is my third Kubota in 4 years(kept trading up - long story) so I never got the previous two broken in enough to make the switch to synthetic. I had always assumed I would use Delvac 1 since I had such good luck with all the other Mobil synthetic products. Since I fully intend on keeping the the Kubota I now have I'll be making the switch to synthetic as soon as its broken in. You guys now have me researching Amsoil a little closer.

Any comments on practical experience on one vs. the other

Scott

 

[Harv]

Scott -

This is great -- I get to do a second welcome on the same evening. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Y'know, I just finished changing the hydraulic fluid in my L2500, and I was so focused on simply not screwing anything up I just went with the Kubota UDT stuff. Now I'm wondering if I didn't screw up after all by not using a synthetic. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

I'll be watching this thread to learn more about synthetics (in addition to the plentiful discussions already posted) to decide what to use next time.

In fact, maybe I'll sneak a question in here -- would I truly benefit from using a synthetic, being that I'm less than a weekend warrior in a mild climate (seldom below freezing)?

Anyway, glad you jumped in, Scott, and I, for one, am anxious to hear more about your 3 Kubotas in 4 years. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[ScottF]

Harv,
Thanks for the reply and the welcome. To answer your question on benefiting from synthetics the answer is yes. Without going into too many technical details, synthetics are much more stable and hold their viscosity ratings much better in all temperature conditions. Synthetics also have a much better tolerance for maintaining lubricating properties in the presence of moisture (good for those of us who don't use our equipment everyday). Multi grade petroleum oils have to rely on viscosity enhancers much more than sythetics to maintain viscosity ratings, unfortunately these enhancers can break down prematurely if the oil is overheated or left in for excessive drain intervals. Now, I've said all this but I don't want to paint a bad picture for regular petroleum based oils. They will work just fine if changed often and not overheated.

About my three Kubotas in 4 years: Bought a 96' L2900 2wd on turf tires - mainly to cut grass. Quickly found out turf tires aren't worth doo-doo when trying to pull a 6' box blade. Decided to price R4 tires for the rear. After I had to pick myself up off the floor when I got the price I found out that I could by a new L2900 4wd on R4 tires for about $1500 more than buying just the rear tires alone, so now on tractor #2. After owning the 4wd L2900 for 3 years I decided I wanted to put a loader on it. Came across a 1 year old L3710HST w/681 loader for a steel - wasn't exactly what I originally set out for, but I couldn't pass it up - tractor #3. I sold the 4wd L2900 to my dad and traded the L3710HST in on a new L4310DT 4wd on R4 tires (kept the 681 loader and put it on the 4310). I still count this as tractor #3 since I worked the trade deal before I even took possession of the L3710. So, I now have a L4310DT 4wd w/loader that I intend on keeping or I'll end up in divorce court! See, told you it was a long story.

Scott

 

[LarryT]

Welcome aboard Scott. I see you've figured out that this can be a pretty influential and convincing group already. Like you, I'm looking for a source of Amsoil and I've never even heard of it till recently. I do run synthetic in my two new vechiles, Castrol. Only reason for Castrol is SAMS Club carries it. I've used Mobil One for years. I've always used Valvoline for regular oil. Guess I'll give Amsoil a shot.

Like you, I went through my first Kubota before it needed a 50 hour service, traded up to the B2910. Just did the 50 hour (well, 60 maybe). Put in plain old hyd oil per the Kubota dealer (he looked at me like I was stupid when I asked about UDT!). Guess I'll switch to Amsoil for the 100 hour service.

Larry...

 

[Harv]

Scott -

Wow, Dude! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

You started with a bigger tractor than I have now, and then worked your way up to a 4310? Man, those 5 acres don't stand a chance, do they? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

BTW - I'm sending some brochures on the 'M' series to you, care of your wife. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Billc]

Scott,

Welcome to the board.

I think the consensus is that one synthetic is about as good as the next. Amsoil is a great product and they invented the synthetic market...kind of like the saying "They were country when country wasn't cool." Another reason I like Amsoil is that when I had my questions I got a lot of good info by calling their 800 number. They have great customer service.

So you know, I switched my Dodge 3500 over to Amsoil last summer. All that's left is switching over the auto trannie fluid. My tractor, a M5400 (gear), is still on dino oil. Will switch it to Amsoil motor oil before spring but will continue to use UDT in the trannie.

Don't think you'll go wrong with whichever synthetic you use.

Bill Cook

 

[Billc]

Larry,
Before you switch to a synthetic you should wait until the 150 hour mark.

Bill Cook

 

[heehaw]

i've been using amsoil for a long time; i use their 800 number an have what i need pretty quick..i have seen it make a lot of difference in the temp of an engine, and a lot of difference in the simple things like the idle speed of a weed-eater..have had a couple mishaps, and am convinced that i would have been putting in new motors if i had been using regular pet oils...of course i'm easily convinced..
heehaw

 

[ScottF]

Thanks for the replies guys - I appreciate the info. I have to admit I've been impressed with all the info and knowledge on this board - it's been very helpful. I'll contact the Amsoil guys and get some more info. I am still somewhat surprised that very few people have commented on Mobile Delvac-1.

Harv,
Thanks, but I don't need any "help" with the M series info - I can find my way to the sofa all by myself! Actually I'm just kidding. My wife now wants a little Kubota of her own to cut grass - guess I can't complain.

Scott

 

[putty340]

Scott, the way the oil diff. was explained to me was, you shouldnt use sinthetic on a new motor, because the oil has very slippery properties ,so much so that it doesnt bond to the metal like petrolium based oils( dino oils get absorbed into the metal better- they call it seasoning). The biggest problem being on start up. If you let your motor set for a long period of time it will actually rust the inside of the motor from not sticking to the metal. I have been using sinthetic oil in my motorcycles for 15 years , the transmission oil I change every other day,and on raceday twice a day, after many years of teardowns you do see that sinthetic oils are better. I use sinthetic in my motors that I use frequently, but I am going to judge if it is worth it on a motor/tranny that requires as much oil as my tractor. If it looks like I am on the fence about this your right! ,I change the oil in my machines frequently, and I think if you do too ,it doesnt justify the extra expence. The changing is 1000 times more important than the type. I dont know how much it will be to get sinthetic oil in my tractor yet, but if it is twice as much as regular dino oil I will use dino and change it twice as often.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

ScottF,
I have been using MObil Delvac-1 since the first 50 hour oil change and couldn't be happier. You will notice that the oil light goes out quicker than when using conventional oil.. Whether it is better than other synthetics, who knows. I don't think tho that you can automatically increase the oil change interval. I still change at 100 hours, both the oil and filter. You cannot kill your tractor with kindness.
There are those that chose not to go to the extra expense of synthetics and those people have had excellent service with conventional oils. How do you argue with their records, just being the devils's advocate...
I guess bottom line is the extra insurance of added lubricity, free flowing oil, and more stable oil is worth it for me.
Just my feeble thoughts
Greg H

 

[cowboydoc]

Putty,
I agree with you 100%. I've talked to alot of mechanics and all of them tell me that you can't tell a difference between regular oil changed on schedule and the sythetic oil. The guys I've talked said if you use a good quality oil for diesels like Rotella or some of the others and follow the scheduled maintenance you won't have any problems at all that you wouldn't have had if you used synthetic. I have also heard the same things as you that if you aren't running the motor all the time DON'T use synthetic. Most of the guys I talked to really had a problem that the oil was let go so long without changing it with synthetics, especially in the pickups with the filters where they never change the oil. My one friend who is the regional manager for Ford said they have denied seven engine rebuilds in his area because people used the amsoil system and didn't change the oil according to the recommended schedule. No way am I going to take a chance with something under warranty. If a person followed the scheduled maintenance and always changed the oil then I don't see a problem, but it is those extended oil changes that start to bother me. Guys that I know use amsoil swear by it but what I don't like about it is that is almost 75% profit of what the selling price is. I think that synthetic is good for the right circumstances but definitely it's not worth the extra cost if you follow recommended maintenance intervals.

 

[gsxr1100]

Richard – I love this oil debate. I have to disagree with you on the synthetic oil difference. If you live in cold temps (ie. New England or other states like that) you will notice a difference. For one thing, in starting. The synthetic oil has a much lower pour point/pumping point. Another false statement is the “not using the machine all the time” issue. Synthetics have a much better additive package hands down. Regular starts to turn acidic quickly while synthetic don’t.

If the people you talked to had a problem with the synthetic oil they did not follow the proper instructions. If you run this oil for extended periods you must follow the oil manufactures procedure. I run Amsoil in tractor and my Powertstroke diesel for 10K+ miles on (1) oil change. I have tested the oil and it comes back better then the Mobil 1 I used with 3,000 miles! If your friend said they (Ford) denied coverage, well that is a flat off wrong. My Ford dealer knows I am running WAY over the “Ford” change interval and the said nothing. I showed them (1) oil report with Ford’s oil with 3,000 miles and Amsoil with just about 9,000 miles and my dealer said nothing. I told him that the oil Ford uses is very poor. I is also illegal for Ford to deny warranty coverage! I would LOVE if Ford did this to me. I would have a ball. /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif I have over 50K miles on my truck and it runs perfect with the Amsoil. NO, I am not a dealer. I just like their oil. If there is a better oil I would use that.

Even if you follow the recommended schedule for oil you still could have a problem but just don’t know it. If you suspect a problem get the oil tested. The miles/hours on the oil means nothing. The complete basis for synthetic is that you can, and should, go longer. If you don’t use the oil for what it is designed for you are throwing money away. My oil in my last tractor (JD 455) did not turn black till about 15 hours on it. Regular JD oil turns black after 10 minutes!!!!!!!!!


Thanks
Mike
Like I told my last ex-wife, I only drive as fast as I can see...and besides, It's all in the reflexes
-Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

 

[putty340]

burnickas, I do agree that sinthetic is probably a little better oil. The "not using the machine regularly" comment was not directed at the oils viscosity,acidity,or longevity. It was just explained to me that it does not have the seasoning ability of dino oils,much like you season a old iron pan (before non-stick pans)with real butter to keep the food from sticking when cooking. I have read what the sinthetic manufactures say about going 50000 miles before an oil change---YIKES! For me no thank you, I will change my oil and filter more often at a much,much lower price per change./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[gsxr1100]

Putty - As I stated in the above post. The Dino oils basically sucks for longevity. I personally would not leave dino oil in a car/truck, tractor or any engine. The Dino oil is good for on thing, break in and that’s it (small hours though). Other than that get it out of there. We used old iron pans and seasoning because that was all they had at the time. We have other options now that is why we DON'T use these outdated items. Plus, oil provides (1) thing, cool and lubricates engine. It does not "season" the engine.

I like synthetics because I have more important things to do than play around with oil and filters on a tractor. motorcycles or almost 4.5 gallons of oil in my truck!

Again don't take my word. Have your great Dino oil tested at xx hours and use synthetic oil and have it changed at double the xx hours ( 2 times xx). I am 100% sure the synthetic will be come back better if your tractor is running correctly. That is what I did and the crap Mobil went in the trash..


Just because you can oil more often does not again, mean anything. If you have a problem with an engine part it does not matter in 1 hour on oil or 200 hours on oil! I would personally use the synthetics in my investment.

Have fun… /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif


Thanks
Mike
Like I told my last ex-wife, I only drive as fast as I can see...and besides, It's all in the reflexes
-Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

 

[cowboydoc]

Burnickas,
I know this was debated to death on the ford page but I still disagree on synthetics. I have had my oil tested numerous times after the scare tactics that were released on the ford diesel page and there was never any problem with my oil at 3, 4, and 5k on pickup. There was no acid buildup, no loss of additives, no breakdown in viscostiy, etc. The oil was still good at 5k and there has never been any sign of damage in the analysis that were done. So for my own experiment most of these theories were disproved. I change every 3k no matter what. I let it go a few times just to see what the oil sample would come back as so I disagree with you there as far as the samples go. Also I use Rotella and I have never had the darkening in 10 hours that you say happens all the time.
AS far as the warranty information it specifically states in the manual that failure to adhere to manufacturer's recommendations for oil and for scheduled maintenance will void the warranty. It amazes me that people will add on chips, extend oil life, and change the hp and then expect the warranty to stay in effect. Then the mfg. says they will stand behind you and I personally know of three people that were abandoned by Banks and one person by Amsoil after their engines failed. They both wrote letters and referred the Moss Act but that was it. No corporate lawyers to help or anything. So if you want to spend alot of money on a lawyer and lose go ahead and go against the warranty. Ford wins 98.8 percent of the cases that are brought against them for warranty work so it's nothing that I would want to challenge whether in my tractor or my pickup. The tractors and pickups are put where they are safe to operate.
If you really look at the research from the oil companies the synthetics say their research is best and the regular oil says their oil is best and the truth is really somewhere in between. If you're down to a temperature where the oil is that thick you should use a heater anyway whether you have synthetic or you have regular oil. There was a quote "research article" that I saw awhile back when I was looking into this that said the reason synthetics started easier was because there was less oil that stayed on the piston and the cylinders than regular oil and so the engine started easier than with regular oil because with regular oil it stayed in the cylinder better and so even though it started harder you actually had better protection. I don't necessarily buy that either but it just shows the kind of "research" that is quoted.
I'm not here to start another debate but the fact remains that if you change according to mfg. recommendations and check your oil regularly and do an occassional analysis you will be far ahead money wise than going with synthetic. YOu will have no warranty concerns and for the 5 minutes that it takes me to change oil I don't have a problem with that every so often.
But to each his own and it very well may turn out that synthetic is the best way to go but for now there's no "real proof" that there is, just independent research from both sides that say their way is the best way. I'll stick with my regular oil and save some money and waste some extra time tinkering with my equipment.

 

[gsxr1100]

Richard- I never stated that Rotella darkened after 10 hours. I said minutes. I also said Regular JD oil, not Rotella. I had a JD dealer install JD oil when I had a starting problem and after they started it up the crap, yes crap oil was black. For the money JD wants for their oil is BS. Better oils out there at 1/3 of the price (synthetic too). The big thing with diesels is acid, soot, and TBN.

Side bar: As far as the Ford diesel page is concerned half the people on there are scared to death to stray from the “little Ford book”; they take there truck in too the dealer for repairs just to follow the book or keep receipts to get a huge $500 dollars of their next truck! The problem with the oils was foaming a few years ago. When they have a problem do you think just because the dealer worked on it, the truck problem is Ford’s problem? Come on.

If the oil was tested at 5K way change oil? I guess some people like to throw money away (general statement) and valuable time! In my manual it states that the interval is 5,000 miles regular and 3,000 miles for severe and that you SHOULD use oils that conform to SAE specifications, that’s it. It never stated that you must follow Ford recommendations. As these are just recommendations not “set in stone”. The warranty is for a short time period compared to the track life and so if your dealer allows you to go 5,001 miles you would void warranty? It however amazes me that people listen to Ford when they will do everything in their power to prove the customer wrong EVEN if they followed the “little manual”.

Bank is a completely different animal, which is not on the topic basis. The manufactures like Banks and Amsoil should help the customer. If these few, and very few people, had problems they probably did not adhere to the manufactures guidelines for their intended product use!!

I run Amsoil (drain every two years) in my Suzuki GSX-R1100 with turbo and it produces near 200 hp and I had a major engine problem. I test oil every fall to see if turbo is running correctly (and it does). So, Suzuki thought they were going to void warranty because I don’t follow their oil recommendations and because of the turbo. Well, they Suzuki lost and it cost me $1,500 for my brother-in-laws party for winning (lawyer ,now Judge) and cost Suzuki over $4,000 for new engine. So if you pursue things with the proper people you will win. There are many loopholes in laws. You just have to look.

So by what you have read which is a general statement. Why do military aircraft use synthetic? I work in the Aerospace field and they do! What happens if you can not use a heater in the area they are in, then what? The research article is wrong, period. If you read some ASTM or SAE standards will prove this research article is wrong. I don’t believe it either.

As far as the five minutes is concerned. A lot could happen in that time. If my baby boy talks for the first time I want to be there and not messing with some oil for a tractor! The time I saved to spend with him is worth its’ money in gold. I don’t have warranty concerns either. My Ford dealer knows what I am doing and they approve of it and my tractor is/was out of warranty any ways. The newer tractor will also run a synthetic oil. Only the best oil for my equipment..

Have fun guys and remember this my understanding and learning. Not said by God. Everyone can do whatever makes you smile.


Thanks
Mike
Like I told my last ex-wife, I only drive as fast as I can see...and besides, It's all in the reflexes
-Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China

 

[GaryA]

Burnickas, I agree with you 100%, Most people that argue against synthetics are living in the stone age. As far as delvac goes it is a product of Mobile and I have a real bad taste for it after ruining thousands of big block aircraft engines 4 years ago as it could not dissapate the high lead content of 100LL avegas. Now they cannot market it for aircraft anymore so they merge with Exxon and come out with the same crap and call it Exxon Elite, buyer beware. I have used the Amsoil in everything I own and never had any kind of problems and would like Ford to tell me I cannot use it in my Powerstroke Deisel or void the warrenty because I would love to go after them. The owners manuel also states you can use senthetics as long as it has the proper rating on the container. Ford also comes out from the factory with synthetics in the gearboxes, now why is that if it is junk oil?
I worked for GM for years and they also were having trouble with the Corvettes shelling them out loading them on transports in cold climates and had a bullitian and started using synthetic in gearboxes and engines on those particular applications, and some folks say they are no good? Let them be the judge and spend the big bucks for maintainence if they choose to go that way. I guess if they did not make Amsoil I would probably use Rotella as I beleive it to be good oil. MHO gary

 

[cowboydoc]

Geez you guys come on I never bashed synthetic oil! All I said was that for the money if you follow the recommended changes that there isn't alot of difference between sythetic and regular oil. I like to change my oil every 3000 miles on my vehicles and every 75-100 hours on my tractors. So what? If synthetic was the same price I'd probably use it. I just don't see a reason to and for the price of an oil analysis I can just change my oil. I specifically said in my statement that it very well may be that synthetic is better than regular oil but there are no independent studies done on it. Just studies that have been commissioned by one side or the other. Who are you to say that the sources I have are bull and yours are gospel? That's what I mean there is no real evidence one way or the other from independent sources.
As far as my time goes Burnickas good gosh if we went to the extreme you're talking about with time there would be no reason to even own a tractor or anything else. I like working on my vehicles and don't consider it a chore. It's relaxing to me to get away and tinker with my truck or tractor doing maintenance and such and usually one of my daughters or both of them are with me helping me out.
I vote we just end this debate as there is good and bad to both sides of the argument. I don't see Ford as the bad guy here and believe that someone alot smarter than me wrote the owner's manual for a reason. If they're paying for the repairs I'll follow their advice. Anyway enough said on my end.

 

[Bird]

Where's Mark Chalkley?/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif He's a dyed-in-the-wool Amsoil fan./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif About 7 years ago when I was still a fulltime RV traveler, one of my magazines did a story for which they contacted all three of the big manufacturers of pickup trucks and motorhome engines, and all 3 agreed; the use of synthetics would NOT void the warranty, BUT to follow the same maintenance schedule as you would with regular oil. The author's conclusion was that if you lived in an extremely cold environment, synthetic was the way to go; otherwise, too expensive. I agreed. I've been using Kubota UDT in the hydraulics and Delo 400 in the engine. And I use Quaker State in my car and pickup. However, after reading all the glowing reports on this forum for Amsoil, especially Mark's experiments concluding that it ran cooler AND quieter, I just this last week put Amsoil ATH in my Kubota hydraulic system. Don't know yet whether I'll stay with it, or whether I'll try their oil in the engine. The one thing that really bothers me about Amsoil is their marketing. There have been laws against pyramid schemes for many years, so a lot of companies came up with "multi-level marketing" that is legal. And yes, I know there are technical differences that make it legal so far, but as far as I'm concerned, it's about the same thing, and I'm VERY leary of any company that resorts to multi-level marketing; indicates to me that they can't compete in the stores.

Bird