Backhoe Bargin needed

[rba901]

G'Day All,

I need some help with the approach I should take in ending up with a reliable and capable backhoe. A good part of my problem is my budget, I'm allowing for somewhere between AUD$10,000 - 15,000. Small second hand Kubota's seem to fetch around the AUD$20,000 -25,000.

The purpose of the machine is mixed, but the focus will be digging for some decent size garden beds, we are sitting on 8 acres, with 3 being gardens, I want to put in additional garden beds, dig some long trenches where I can replace the soil for hedges and add some large vegetable beds, against replacing the soil. The other 5 I want to do some clearing, so would like to dig out some tree stumps and general clearing.

My thoughts are to buy an old style tractor and then look to putting a PTO driven backhoe. I see these PTO units sell for around the AUD $5,500 mark.

So is this a good idea? If yes, what are some suggestions on tractors and what about backhoes? What do I need to look for with the tractor.

Any help is appreciated as I am new to living on acreage.

Best Wishes for Christmas.

Ben

 

[Grandad4]

Good to hear from you, Ben. It sounds like you have a bunch of work planned. I don't know the first thing about the equipment market in Oz, or whether it is possible to get a reliable backhoe that would do the work you have outlined at a price that is within your budget limits. But adding a 3 point backhoe to an old style tractor does not appeal to me. The weight distribution of most older tractors was heavily on the rear, with a light front end. Unless the tractor had a front loader to counterbalance the backhoe, the tractor would be even more unbalanced to the rear, and might even be undriveable. Beyond that, the light front axle would not stand up well to the forces a backhoe puts on a tractor. Could you put a 3 point backhoe on, say, a Ferguson 35? I suppose so, but every day you used it would be an adventure.

I would be more inclined to find a well-used but still working full-sized backhoe that has enough life in it to get your tasks done, with the expectation that you'd later sell it. That's done fairly often in the U.S.; but, of course, I don't know what is available in Australia. Best of luck with your plans.

 

[TnAndy]

Or rent a full sized backhoe if possible for the work you need to do. I had a small Bushhog brand backhoe unit for my previous tractor, and they simply don't have enough power to do much of anything FOR THE MONEY INVESTED.

Never again for me.....

 

[rademamj]

G'Day All,

I need some help with the approach I should take in ending up with a reliable and capable backhoe. A good part of my problem is my budget, I'm allowing for somewhere between AUD$10,000 - 15,000. Small second hand Kubota's seem to fetch around the AUD$20,000 -25,000.

The purpose of the machine is mixed, but the focus will be digging for some decent size garden beds, we are sitting on 8 acres, with 3 being gardens, I want to put in additional garden beds, dig some long trenches where I can replace the soil for hedges and add some large vegetable beds, against replacing the soil. The other 5 I want to do some clearing, so would like to dig out some tree stumps and general clearing.

My thoughts are to buy an old style tractor and then look to putting a PTO driven backhoe. I see these PTO units sell for around the AUD $5,500 mark.

So is this a good idea? If yes, what are some suggestions on tractors and what about backhoes? What do I need to look for with the tractor.

Any help is appreciated as I am new to living on acreage.

Best Wishes for Christmas.

Ben

It can be a good idea for the light work load you have. But do this with a new tractor only. The newer tractors are designed to mount the backhoe on a subframe which:

1. Allows reasonable quick attach of the backhoe when needed. 2. Increases overall stability of the backhoe during excavation operations 3. Provides weight distribution of the backhoe to both front and rear axles and to the deployed stabilizer legs.

Costs of tractor attached backhoes range $4500 used to $8500 new, and provide a cost effective way to accomplish your excavation needs. Remember subframe backhoes are mainly found mounted on the newer tractors.

 

[3Ts]

I have a backhoe on a 50hp tractor. Sub-frame is the only way to go. The backhoe exerts a lot of force on the tractor and even with my tractor weighing ~5000# it can still shake the tractor if i'm not careful. As for stumps - tractor backhoes should be considered as light duty use. Digging stumps, depending on their size and how well they're rooted, can be considered heavy duty use. It can be done but be careful you don't damage the backhoe. It may be more cost effective to have someone come in with bigger equipment or rent something specifically for the stumps.

 

[rba901]

Really appreciate the advice guys, all very practical points, I naively hadn稚 thought much about the balance of the tractor.

I have been doing further research over here and certainly the Chinese units jump out on price, but a lot of negative comments from 3/4 years ago, have they improved?

The other thing I have looked at is re-manufactured tractors, company here called Sota Tractors do a lot of this. A unit such as a Kubota L2402DT with a backhoe, what do you recon?

I do respect the point around digging out tree stumps and that wouldn稚 be a common activity, so as you say get a proper size machine in for that.

 

[mbohuntr]

Got a hoe on my 33 horse Mahindra, I have dug out 8-10" trees, but that is really pushing and punishing the machine. A big excavator does 12" trees like weeds. Ditches are great with my machine, and I clear quite a bit of brush with the hoe/thumb.

 

[Texasmark]

DR (brand) is advertising a little guy for $6k; like most of their stuff you have 6 mos. to a year to use it and if not happy return it....as I recall. I originally sneered at "little guys" but have come to realize that for small jobs and tight places they are perfect. It's roadworthy with a ball hitch so you could tow itto it to your operating area with your truck, unhook it and be about your business with your truck. When not backhoeing, you don't have it mounted on your tractor, getting in the way of doing other things....like operating your 3 pt on the tractor.

 

[fried1765]

DR (brand) is advertising a little guy for $6k; like most of their stuff you have 6 mos. to a year to use it and if not happy return it....as I recall. I originally sneered at "little guys" but have come to realize that for small jobs and tight places they are perfect. It's roadworthy with a ball hitch so you could tow itto it to your operating area with your truck, unhook it and be about your business with your truck. When not backhoeing, you don't have it mounted on your tractor, getting in the way of doing other things....like operating your 3 pt on the tractor.

If you just want to PLAY with a hoe, and you have very sandy soil, that DR "little guy" might fill the need, but practically speaking, it won't do much real WORK.

 

[Texasmark]

If you just want to PLAY with a hoe, and you have very sandy soil, that DR "little guy" might fill the need, but practically speaking, it won't do much real WORK.

Well that WAS my initial opinion till I got old and needed little guys to do little jobs around the place like the things mentioned, and the little guy that doesn't do real work fills the bill!

 

[CMV]

Don't know if you have something similar, but I use Hertz Equipment (now called Herc?). It seems kind of expensive to just rent a backhoe for a few days and pay for delivery/pickup.

BUT, for about $500 I just had an almost new JD 310K 4WD 85hp dropped off. Compared to what a small tractor can do, that machine is incredibly fast. Moving 1yd+ of dirt/gravel at a time vs a tablespoon with my little tractor for example. Even just the reach of the bigger machine is a lot less time re-positioning for digging. Add in that it's digging with a bigger bucket and at least 5x the power, just makes short work of whatever tasks you have.

After my first few times renting one I thought it was dumb to keep paying that rental fee since I do need a machine that size at least once per year. And then with renting you plan time off work or whatever and maybe the weather decides to be uncooperative making you change plans at last minute. Figured owning my own was just a lot smarter so I bought an older used one. I had NO IDEA the maintenance time requirements nor the upkeep costs of a piece of machinery like that - especially an older one on its last leg. I got so sick of pretending to be a heavy equipment mechanic (which I absolutely am not) that when the head gasket went, I was about glad to get rid of it. Big, strong machine that made short work of tough chores, but for every hour operating it seemed like I had to do an hour or more of maintenance.

I know you are talking about just a backhoe attachment, but for the cost of that, how many times could you rent an actual BH? How often do you really NEED it? If you were to rent 2-3 separate times, could you finish all the projects and leave everything in a state where just a tractor + FEL could maintain from then on? Then you aren't worried about buying it, mounting/dismounting it, storing it, fixing it, etc.

 

[rba901]

Thanks again for all the input. About a week ago a Kubota L35 came up for sale, a few dollars more than I originally wanted to spend. However support from the her who must be obeyed I am the proud owner. It's got 1250hr, light usage for a 2004 machine, though it is a bit weathered as it's last few years has been outdoors from what understand. Anyhow I picked it up a couple of days ago, the learning curve starts, no doubt I'll have a few question.

 

[fried1765]

Thanks again for all the input. About a week ago a Kubota L35 came up for sale, a few dollars more than I originally wanted to spend. However support from the her who must be obeyed I am the proud owner. It's got 1250hr, light usage for a 2004 machine, though it is a bit weathered as it's last few years has been outdoors from what understand. Anyhow I picked it up a couple of days ago, the learning curve starts, no doubt I'll have a few question.

Looks GREAT!
Would look REALLY sharp (like new) with a fresh paint job!

 

[rScotty]

G'Day All,

I need some help with the approach I should take in ending up with a reliable and capable backhoe. A good part of my problem is my budget, I'm allowing for somewhere between AUD$10,000 - 15,000. Small second hand Kubota's seem to fetch around the AUD$20,000 -25,000.

The purpose of the machine is mixed, but the focus will be digging for some decent size garden beds, we are sitting on 8 acres, with 3 being gardens, I want to put in additional garden beds, dig some long trenches where I can replace the soil for hedges and add some large vegetable beds, against replacing the soil. The other 5 I want to do some clearing, so would like to dig out some tree stumps and general clearing.

My thoughts are to buy an old style tractor and then look to putting a PTO driven backhoe. I see these PTO units sell for around the AUD $5,500 mark.

So is this a good idea? If yes, what are some suggestions on tractors and what about backhoes? What do I need to look for with the tractor.

Any help is appreciated as I am new to living on acreage.

Best Wishes for Christmas.

Ben

Absolutely you can do that. Larger older Farm tractors are incredibly strong in the 3pt area. And they were built to last nearly forever with minimal repairs - or none. Farm tractors also tend to be long and wide - which really helps with the balance. I'd recommend that you get a tractor with a Category II 3 pt. Those tractors with the cat II 3pt are used for pulling big plows through tough ground, they can take the stress of a small to medium size backhoe directly on the 3pt hitch. If you are using a 3pt hoe larger than small to medium size then that's when you want to think about a full subframe. Or simply don't use it so hard.

Our old 530 John Deere is an excellent example of a medium HP, heavy, durable machine with a category II 3pt hitch. We used a medium small size 3pt backhoe on it for 20+ years and although the backhoe could certainly make the 6000 lb tractor bounce around, there was never any danger of anything breaking. Got a lot of work done and all for a price we could afford. Nothing broke - ever. Stumps out, long rows dug, rocks carried, foundations dug, small pond, planted trees - you name it and we did it with that tractor and hoe. When it didn't have a backhoe on it, the tractor was used as a loader tractor or for pulling a really big rear blade and box.

Hydraulics: Check if the tractor has rear hydraulic outputs. If so, they will power the hoe. If not, then look for a hoe that has a PTO-driven hydraulic pump with a fluid reservoir on the backhoe itself. Both hydraulic styles of 3pt hoes are equally popular.

Downsides: Everything has a downside. For whatever reasons, right now in the USA it has become popular to buy new equipment. You will probably hear a lot of arguments that is the only way to go. It is probably the best, but for a handy guy it is hardly the only way. You need to be assured that a lot of the old equipment is still just as good as ever....and 40 year old machines can be surprisingly modern. They were built to last nearly forever, be easily serviced, and easily repaired.

The downside is that the owner of a good used tractor is likely going to be stuck with it. The US used market is full of good machines; they are hard to sell for anything close to what they are worth. The same goes for implements.
Go for it; you've lots of choices.
rScotty

 

[Grandad4]

Thanks again for all the input. About a week ago a Kubota L35 came up for sale, a few dollars more than I originally wanted to spend. However support from the her who must be obeyed I am the proud owner. It's got 1250hr, light usage for a 2004 machine, though it is a bit weathered as it's last few years has been outdoors from what understand. Anyhow I picked it up a couple of days ago, the learning curve starts, no doubt I'll have a few question.

Good choice! Those L35's are workhorses. If it's in decent condition it should do everything you want. Not a bad plan to give it a full service and look for anything that's worn or damaged that may become a problem. Since it's got low hours and has been sitting out, there may be controls, linkages, etc., that have become bound or frozen from lack of use and the weather. Get them loose now with penetrating lubricant and a gentle touch will save much frustration later.

 

[rScotty]

Nice tractor! You couldn't have done better.
rScotty