Backup Generator

[downsizingnow48]

Will check out Hardy and Aurora and Norwall, thanks for the info!

 

[newbury]

For years I have got by at the Mendocino place with a old 3500w Craftsman construction generator. It feeds into an interlocking manual switch that selects either PG&E or generator power. The switch has two breakers, 100 amp goes to the house and 60 amp goes to the shop. The setup works fine but requires a lot of swapping of loads to get along during an extended outage. The power goes out for 4hrs - 2 days at a time, up to a week sometimes. And this happens probably 10-12 times a year. In the past, we often just bail out and go back to Sacramento rather than deal with the outage and the small generator.

I want to upgrade the backup power so we can stay there during outages with less generator management. I've been looking at generators in the 9-12kw range. Here is the question, looking at the table below, does anyone have direct experience with any of these machines? I am favoring either the Honda gas or the Kubota diesel at this point, because I have current and direct personal experience with both manufacturer's motors and it is all good. I should add the old Craftsman (20-30 years) has a Generac motor that is 100% reliable and easy to start, but I cannot assume current Generac motors are equally good.

You don't mention a price range your looking for. Also how portable does it need to be?

There are many on here who have bought the Duromax XP10000EH on ebay from Factory Authorized outlet and sometimes for as little as $500.
The price jumps up and down, lately I've seen several times this year it's gone for $500. As of this writing they want $990 for it and say it's the lowest price of the year, but it's not. DuroMax 1 Watt Hybrid Dual Fuel Portable Gas Propane Generator - RV Standby | eBay

I've got one that's been run for about a week or two run-time, mostly on propane, but tested on gas.

Couple of threads:
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/336996-smokin-deal-10-000watt-generator-9.html
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...duromax-model-xp10000eh-generator-review.html

I thought a back up generator would be a good idea so in 2002 I bought a new Honda generator.
It's been sitting in my garage ever since, never used, never had gas in it.
Not one of my better ideas.:confused3:

Should have gotten a Duromax, you could have hooked it up to a 20lb propane tank for $40 and not worried about fuel going bad

Thanks for all comments. I sent a note to the Maine generator place to see about shipping. It is about as far from the Mendocino coast as you can get without jumping into the Atlantic Ocean so probably too costly.

Duromax is free shipping from ebay.

Looking at your spreadsheet you could buy 5 to 10 Duromax's on sale for the the cost of the more expensive ones.

 

[downsizingnow48]

I have been following the Duromax threads. I used the Champion as a example of low price gasoline generators like Duromax. On portability, none required. This goes into a generator shed I am building beside the shop and that is it. At this point I am mostly thinking of the diesel possibilities, so for budget that is 6-8k.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

If I were you...

Kubota 9,875 Watt Diesel Generator

I think IF I was looking for a stationary gen set, THAT one would be my choice too...

That's a really nice, well thought out unit, and it looks to be built from quality parts!

SR

 

[Hunter29]

I have been following the Duromax threads. I used the Champion as a example of low price gasoline generators like Duromax. On portability, none required. This goes into a generator shed I am building beside the shop and that is it. At this point I am mostly thinking of the diesel possibilities, so for budget that is 6-8k.

Be aware of what your buying, you want at least 1.5 HP Per KW, if it is less you won't get the rated output in most cases.. That Kubota is very nice but its not 10kw....so be sure to look at HP at 1800 rpm..

 

[Hunter29]

And if it were me I would only buy a Mecc Alte alternator, at Maine both the Kubota and Perkins have them, they are considered the best..


Mecc Alte | The World's Largest Independent Producer of Alternators 1 - 5,kVA

 

[Hunter29]

Here is a strong 10kw,, bigger engine , cost more..

1 kw Diesel Generator Kubota | eBay

 

[TheMan419]

If I lost power that often (and I am assuming you have no access to piped in natural gas) I would look diesel. You can store the fuel a lot longer than gasoline. Easier to resupply in a storm. You can get out and get the fuel rather than being at the mercy of the propane truck.

I'd likely also keep my hands on the gasoline unit you already own as a back up back up. Also an alternate fuel source if you can find gas but not diesel at any point in time.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Yep that old Craftsman generator is a keeper, excellent backup for the backup.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Just visited the local Kubota dealer. The general manager said they will meet the online price I showed them for the GL11000. That was $6926 from Generators Direct. The Kubota catalog price was about $800 more.

I like the 1800rpm Kubota engined generator from Maine a lot. With top grade alternator. But I also like getting something like this from a local dealer. Have to see what the Maine place quotes for shipping.

 

[Hunter29]

Do yourself a favor, if you going to spend that kind of money get a 1800 RPM genset, way way better and it will last you the rest of your life.. The Low Boys are OK , nice set up but they run at 3600.. Look at fuel consumption too.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Do yourself a favor, if you going to spend that kind of money get a 1800 RPM genset, way way better and it will last you the rest of your life.. The Low Boys are OK , nice set up but they run at 3600.. Look at fuel consumption too.

+1

SR

 

[RoyKing]

Couple of decisions how long hrs, days, weeks, month. How much power can I afford.

For me I knew Honda inverters are the best gasoline machine, expensive and all the problems of gas.

What I learned from last medium sized storm with high winds, lots of little twisters. Trees down everywhere, most roads blocked, cells/landlines went dead 3 to 4 days. Finally attempted leave to find more gasoline. I have 4 roads out to two cities. All roads were blocked finally found one with small tree and about 6 inches of water crossing it. Chainsaw tree, hook to my truck pull open creep through water. Even if station had power but satellite dish had moved so pumps couldn't read cards, and they could not turn them on and do cash. Travel to bad side of town where people pay cash. Long line... I'm filling two 55gallon drums and bunch of 5's. People are starting to ***** and complain. My neighbor has AR15 on backseat of cab, I unzip jacket so my 45 on my hip shows, people back off we leave, keep lots of cash on hand. Three weeks in town stores getting food but still no sign of power, neighbors get water from my hoses and take bath in bathing suits, hot as heck, I've got window shaker AC and satellite internet. 21 days later power comes on.

So my plan truck has 40 gallon tank so good for 600 miles, stay away gas station, have four 55 gallon empty drums keep one filled, if you know storm coming fill drums with agr diesel. Get some gas for chain saws, tractor with grapple.

Best buy used military mep 802a 6kw gen set $2500. You need power like 15/20k genset with Kubota and mecc alte alternator. Have drum tap screws in the top hole cover with garbage bag. Be happy.

 

[techman]

I am on my third (and last) generator. Original was a V-twin Vangard powered 8 KW. Nice but very noisy (3600 RPM) and keeping fresh gas was always a concern. I upgraded to an 8 KW Deutz powered diesel. Better, but still noisy (3600 again) air cooled unit. Finally I bit the bullet and purchased a Kubota powered 9875 from Centralmaine (referenced earlier). It has been the best of all of them. 1800 RPM and with the included muffler it is quite quiet. As mentioned it has the Mecce Alte brushless generator with electronic voltage regulator. It powers my entire house (with 3 heat pumps) and has clean power. My main switch was to diesel when I bought a Kubota tractor. No more gas was kept at the house, except for the 2-cycle mix for small yard tools. Diesel lasts forever, if kept dry, and on a typical outage my house will use 0.3 gal/hour. Long life solid engine which shares consumables with my tractor.

I vote diesel for low cost to operate, reliable backup.

paul

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have my fourth Diesel Generator still sitting on the truck. An Onan Quiet Diesel 7.5. Looking forward to playing with the this Inverter style of set. I had one before, but it was a "project" in pieces and someone needed the motor for a miniex. I hate getting these things taken apart, but this one is intact.

A little dismayed to see that they run the RPM variable but way up there in RPM. Also, only 110Volt output, so I would put it through a transformer.

The Inverter scares the crap out of me, except that I have three other units in case it fails, so let the transistors go snap, crackle pop, if they must.

 

[downsizingnow48]

OK I got a shipping estimate from the Maine place. $500 for the 9875w Kubota to a freight terminal in Sacramento. So even including shipping, it is less expensive than the Kubota GL11000. And of course the 1800rpm engine vs 3600rpm on the Lowboy. I checked the fuel consumption figures, at half load the 9875w Kubota is .41 gph vs .71 gph for the GL11000. That would make a real difference in a long outage. And it is good to know from commenters here that the generator is a good one. I am pretty much convinced to order one.

I spent more time on their website. They sell an Isuzu engined generator for $6400 (8kw) and $7100 (12.5kw). Both are also in the ballpark for me, in terms of KW and budget. I wonder if anyone here has experience with those. They are rated continuous duty. Worth the extra loot over the 9875w Kubota?

Thanks very much for info and feedback.

 

[RoyKing]

Here is my concerns with base configuration. No diagnostic or monitoring, only does shutdown on low oil pressure or high temp. So if it shuts down you won't know why. Also need an exerciser to run once a month. The do install the dynagen controllers. Will cost more read about it and decide, also I'm leaning toward 18 gallon tank, large base tanks are vented and constant breathing from heating and cooling draws in moisture, so water separator like Golden rod, and treat fuel for algae.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have two Dyagen controllers, both not installed yet. I think they are good quality for the money, not too fancy. Even better if you can get them cheaper off E-Bay. They do show up.

 

[LittleBill21]

OK I got a shipping estimate from the Maine place. $500 for the 9875w Kubota to a freight terminal in Sacramento. So even including shipping, it is less expensive than the Kubota GL11000. And of course the 1800rpm engine vs 3600rpm on the Lowboy. I checked the fuel consumption figures, at half load the 9875w Kubota is .41 gph vs .71 gph for the GL11000. That would make a real difference in a long outage. And it is good to know from commenters here that the generator is a good one. I am pretty much convinced to order one.

I spent more time on their website. They sell an Isuzu engined generator for $6400 (8kw) and $7100 (12.5kw). Both are also in the ballpark for me, in terms of KW and budget. I wonder if anyone here has experience with those. They are rated continuous duty. Worth the extra loot over the 9875w Kubota?

Thanks very much for info and feedback.

you have to figure out your runtime totals, and ask main what the expectancy on each engine is, then decide if your close to either rebuild time, i don't believe alternators have a hourly rebuild time, but i could be wrong.

at least thats what i would do. why get a 50k hour engine, if you never expect to see over 10k etc..

 

[techman]

OK I got a shipping estimate from the Maine place. $500 for the 9875w Kubota to a freight terminal in Sacramento. So even including shipping, it is less expensive than the Kubota GL11000. And of course the 1800rpm engine vs 3600rpm on the Lowboy. I checked the fuel consumption figures, at half load the 9875w Kubota is .41 gph vs .71 gph for the GL11000. That would make a real difference in a long outage. And it is good to know from commenters here that the generator is a good one. I am pretty much convinced to order one.

I spent more time on their website. They sell an Isuzu engined generator for $6400 (8kw) and $7100 (12.5kw). Both are also in the ballpark for me, in terms of KW and budget. I wonder if anyone here has experience with those. They are rated continuous duty. Worth the extra loot over the 9875w Kubota?

Thanks very much for info and feedback.

The 9875 has an alternator that is oversized (I believe it is 14 KW rated) along with the larger rotating mass of the diesel's flywheel which gives you quite a bit more surge capacity for starting larger motor loads. As I indicated I have 3 heat pumps (a 2 ton geo, a second 1.5 ton geo and a 1.5 tom air-air unit. I have no problem starting even when two are already running. One problem in many big box store generators today is that to cut costs they reduce the iron (magnetic frame) and copper (windings) to a bare minimum on the generator. This reduces the surge rating substantially which limits motor starting capability. Also the light engine construction with small flywheel weight also reduces the surge load capacity of the engine due to lower rotating inertia. This is why the heavier units (also the mil surplus are in this category) do better overall. One change I made to my Centralmaine unit was to add a water separator to the fuel line to protect the unit's injection pump. Also I use a plastic 55 gal drum for diesel, so rust and corrosion is not a problem. Also if you have fuel stored for long periods, temperature changes causes breathing of air and moisture in the fuel tank. To combat this I have a desiccant breather on the tank to eliminate water (condensate) accumulation in the tank.

I also had Centralmaine add a "2 wire start controller" to my unit. They used a Dynagen unit, which when I bought mine some years ago cost an additional $300. This unit enables remote start/stop over a low voltage pair of wires (in my basement), controls shutoff valve, glow plug timing, warm up and cool down timing as well as low oil, low battery, overcrank and hi temp shutdown protection. It also displays battery voltage and frequency. Well worth the money.

paul