Backup Generator

[downsizingnow48]

are you buying a ATS?

No, or at least not now. I've been using the manual interlock switch for years, it works fine.

 

[PILOON]

With the revenues the hydro suppliers earn you'd think that service in these times would not require us to install gensets.
Shucks when it gets cold they ask us to reduce consumption so that they can sell to the neighbors at a more favorable price.

 

[Aquamoose]

I’m quite surprised that no one mentioned using natural gas! Mine is a tri-fuel 7,500 generator and is absolutely a breeze to use and very low maintenance with a choice of propane, NG, or gas. The tank is bone dry and is handy should my NG is compromised but I’m not in earthquake territory.

 

[RoyKing]

Does anybody make a 1800 rpm alternator type unit that runs on ngas?'

 

[techman]

Post your photo.

I do not have pix of the water sep or desiccant breather. These are older pix

paul

 

[techman]

I’m quite surprised that no one mentioned using natural gas! Mine is a tri-fuel 7,500 generator and is absolutely a breeze to use and very low maintenance with a choice of propane, NG, or gas. The tank is bone dry and is handy should my NG is compromised but I’m not in earthquake territory.

The only problem with NG is the running cost. I know several people who have NG gensets and are shocked at the NG bill after a prolonged use.

paul

 

[Sawyer Rob]

It doesn't take an earth quake to disrupt the NG supply...

A fire at a pump station can and will do it...

SR

 

[grsthegreat]

i have installed many, many generators over the years, from huge commercial units to residential backups. In my own home i could have installed a 1800 rpm liquid cooled unit but i didnt want to spend the money on a unit costing 3x what a 3600 rpm generac system costs mainly because we dont get many outages any more (that may change tonight with snowmigedden coming in with 50 MPH winds). I service many older 3600 rpm generac units with 100's of hours on them and there still going strong. It all depends on maintenance. I just serviced one with over 2,000 hours on the meter.

That being said, air cooled generators are NOT designed for continuous use. There for emergency backup. On my unit, i shut it down manually during the day because i dont want it running if its not necessary. If its 4F outside, id let it stay running to keep heater going. Off grid people need a generator designed for off grid situations. Diesel 1800 rpm units are great, if you have lots of prolonged power outages. If you have 1 or 2 a year, i think a propane or NG generator is a great way to go. No need to mess with fuel storage or transfer.

Ive had a few calls to service Wenco generators over the years, and they seem like nice units. Have not done much with them, but look impressive. Whatever you plan on buying, get a parts diagram and so a search for major parts to make sure you can get them locally. Over the years ive had issues getting repair parts for alot of marine generators and European brands.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Very nice set! People have arguments about not spending the money, but no trouble spending money on ridiculous BLING that adds no value to ones life.

The only thing I wish that particular Dynagen controller had was another output to switch the load on and off so you could have a cool down and warm up. They do have a newer one, but it's more money.

 

[downsizingnow48]

I do not have pix of the water sep or desiccant breather. These are older pix

paul

Thanks for helpful photo.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

Very nice set! People have arguments about not spending the money, but no trouble spending money on ridiculous BLING that adds no value to ones life.

The only thing I wish that particular Dynagen controller had was another output to switch the load on and off so you could have a cool down and warm up. They do have a newer one, but it's more money.

That is usually handled by the transfer switch, it transfers load back to the primary source and keeps the generator start signal active for a cooldown period.

 

[Industrial Toys]

That gets me to thinking. I have a 200 amp asco switch that I have never connected control wiring to, as I am stopping and starting various generators, and managing loads. I like running a little Diesel genny, but need to shut off some electric heat and a BIG compressor. At other times, I might shut off other loads, and run the compressor. So having everything automatic isn't so easy. That's why it would have been nice to have the cooldown on the Dynagen controller. I have a contactor on my main generator for switching the o/p on and off.

I also hava another (manual) transfer switch behind the ATS to select between main and secondary emergency power, just to complicate things further.

ALSO, if you shut your genny down during an outage, without restoral of utility power, that cooldown scheme won't work as your ATS won't switch.

 

[buickanddeere]

Well if you haven't used it I would say that it was doing it's job.

As far as the OP if you are anticipating using it as often as it sounds,
I would seriously consider a lower rpm diesel, 1800 rpm.
Diesel can be safely stored and has a decent shelve life.
I realize that many people seem to be happy with the 3600 rpm screamers,
I do not believe that they will last as well as the 1800 rpm units.

How many home owners have worn out either a 3600rpm or 1800rpm generator . Even construction companies usually loose a generator or ruin it by running it out of oil . Before the generator is ever worn out .
Even the off griders when looking at the cost have to weigh a cheaper disposable generator or a $$$ that may last longer .
More likely to burn the windings out of an undersized generator and ruin it than ever wear it out .

 

[jaydee325]

It doesn't take an earth quake to disrupt the NG supply...

A fire at a pump station can and will do it...

SR

Case in point, last week Consumers Energy, one of Michigans largest gas and electric utilities had a fire at one of their major pumping stations on the east side of the state. An emergency was declared and people were requested to turn their thermostats down to 65 deg F. This included electric customers too as much electricity in the state is produced by gas driven generators. Several industrial gas customers also curtailed operations.

The good news is the public took the request seriously and the set back requested ended 12 hours sooner than originally advertised!

 

[LouNY]

How many home owners have worn out either a 3600rpm or 1800rpm generator . Even construction companies usually loose a generator or ruin it by running it out of oil . Before the generator is ever worn out .
Even the off griders when looking at the cost have to weigh a cheaper disposable generator or a $$$ that may last longer .
More likely to burn the windings out of an undersized generator and ruin it than ever wear it out .

Well everyone is entitled to there opinion,
I would expect that the 1800 rpm units are in the whole better built, with better componets,
most of them will be liquid cooled and have greater oil capacity then an air cooled disposable screamer.
I would expect that the generator heads would be built better, I also expect that the output will be cleaner
on majority of the slower speed units then the 2 pole high winders.
Heck I wouldn't be adverse to 1200 rpm gensets,
I really enjoyed the 900 rpm direct coupled natural gas units that I used to do control work on,
they would be a tad to big for a homeowner or even most farms.
They had inline 6's 8's 10's some V8's and 10's.

In my mind and my opinion a decent built 1800 rpm genset will out perform
and outlast while running quieter then any 3600 rpm unit will.
I wish my system didn't have as much gearing as it does,
my tractor in 540E is turning about 1750 engine rpm gearing down to 540 pto,
which in turn is geared back up to 1800 for the generator head.

And my money will be spent on lower rpm turning systems.

 

[cdaigle430]

Good points on the diesel....I didnt go diesel because its too expensive up front, you must store it on site and it can be very noisy. I chose the 16kw Natural Gas Generac with auto switch because once installed you can easily replace the air cooled system for half the cost of diesel. I only need it for the infrequent power outages to keep my chickens and hottub warm. If Natural Gas goes out I can easily convert to Propane which I always keep about 100 gallons for other non essential things.
I also have a 7KW on grid solar system which helps while on grid but not on generator. Eventually i will increase to a 10kw solar with battery pack once my solar credits run out to about 20% in 7 years.
I also have a portable one of all else fails. But my Battery pack will be the icing on the cake.
I do agree diesel is the way to go with long term outages-its the only way to go....55 gallon drum is to small, will only get you about 5 days.

 

[newbury]

In the manual for my Winco PTO generator, I'm going to go with the mfg's recommendation, it clearly states: for maintenance, change the rotor bearings every 80,000 hours. (eighty thousand)

SO, I guess they last a little while!

LOT's of folks around here without power right now, but ours is doing just fine, for the moment.

SR

At present rate of usage I expect to never worry about my 12KW Winco.

Case in point, last week Consumers Energy, one of Michigans largest gas and electric utilities had a fire at one of their major pumping stations on the east side of the state. An emergency was declared and people were requested to turn their thermostats down to 65 deg F. This included electric customers too as much electricity in the state is produced by gas driven generators. Several industrial gas customers also curtailed operations.

The good news is the public took the request seriously and the set back requested ended 12 hours sooner than originally advertised!

We keep ours at 60 deg F most of the winter.

A lot of people disparage PTO generators. But with the price of a good 15KW Kubota engine powered generator around $9K, and a good 15KW Winco PTO generator around $2K that leaves $7K difference one could put into a tractor.

Of course that doesn't apply to me. I got my 12KW winco for $600.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

That gets me to thinking. I have a 200 amp asco switch that I have never connected control wiring to, as I am stopping and starting various generators, and managing loads. I like running a little Diesel genny, but need to shut off some electric heat and a BIG compressor. At other times, I might shut off other loads, and run the compressor. So having everything automatic isn't so easy. That's why it would have been nice to have the cooldown on the Dynagen controller. I have a contactor on my main generator for switching the o/p on and off.

I also hava another (manual) transfer switch behind the ATS to select between main and secondary emergency power, just to complicate things further.

ALSO, if you shut your genny down during an outage, without restoral of utility power, that cooldown scheme won't work as your ATS won't switch.

If you plan to shut it down during an outage your only practical option is to open the circuit breaker. The same is true of large systems with generators up to 3MW. If you really wanted a 'remote' option you could put a relay contact in the voltage regulator power supply circuit to remove excitation and reduce output voltage hence removing load. This would only work on conventional systems, not newer units with combined AVR and gen controllers, and some units will still produce significant voltage from the residual magnetism in the rotor.

 

[LittleBill21]

It all depends on maintenance. I just serviced one with over 2,000 hours on the meter.

That being said, air cooled generators are NOT designed for continuous use. There for emergency backup.

I really would like a technical answer to to this statement because i don't understand it. I have read and seen honda's with 5k-6k hours on them. if the temps are under control I don't understand this continuous comment. the worst thing for any motor is stopping and starting, so as long as temperatures are good, i would like to know why makes them a non continuous unit? is it simply they are worn out in 5k-10k thus people looking for continuous may need units that are 30k -50k hour units?

I have personally never seen a worn out motor that wasn't neglected

 

[beowulf]

I have followed this post with interest - just in case my 12 year old Troybuilt 5500 gas, pull start generator no longer works. The good: it has worked well to power a refrigerator, lights and tv (about 4 times in the past 12 years), and once to run the propane furnace fan sucessfully. The times of use were from about 2-4 hours max. Real nice to have when it was needed. The bad: it is a pull start and because it was neglected between uses it was not always easy to start up. An electric start would have been preferred. Except for some dust and surface dirt, it looks brand new.

Because we have not had a lot of need for the generator it was out of sight and out of mind and neglected - re oil, old gas and such. And now I see that it may have leaked something. So, will check all that out. I doubt it has been started for 3-4 years. If it cannot be revived or fixed, I will be looking for a new generator - dual start, dual fuel.

I understand the reasons for 1800 vs 3600, diesel and such, but what about a simple, somewhat inexpensive and reliable unit that will not likely be used much - and when used would only be used for lights, TV, and maybe at times a fridge, furnace fan - and then for only a few hours? I don't think I need to invest in a unit which is optimal in all aspects. Wouldn't a champion, or generac or similar unit work in these circumstances? I have many times bought way more than I needed in other equipment and such but am starting to rethink that strategy. Also, would an inverter work ( just starting to read about those)?