Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

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   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #1,771  
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #1,772  
I don't have a clue. He was looking at an app on his phone which shows his energy usage.
Got to say, this really had me chuckling.. An app on his phone produces results that mathematically make no sense.. missing a factor of 3... who made the app? who benefits from telling the user that he is getting his commute at an incredibly low price?

Sorry RSKY.. not trying to pick on you or your son - but are we so easily victim to those that would pull the wool over our eyes?

It's gonna be cheap now because the government wants us to buy in. In China, the EV manufacturers get huge government incentives to produce electric vehicles. The taxes on ICE vehicles have gone through the roof and the average Chinese elite who can afford a car - cannot consider an ICE. Only EV is making sense in the big cities.

As I work in the Auto industry and was last in China in 2018, I can tell you that the EV cars we saw and were in - were very fine cars. These are not the junk they were producing in 2010 - my first trip.

I have written elsewhere on this forum that China is the leader in EV. The Germans are trying to catch up. The Americans are not in the game. Japan, always slow to adopt new things with the exception of the hybrid technology, are slow to move to all EV. They are still producing hybrids.

I expect China to be the leader because they are gobbling up the battery materials. They started early on. The rest are playing catch-up on battery design and manufacture. The Chinese government, knowing they had a huge problem with auto exhaust in their large cities, forced the electric vehicle. They applied government knowledge and resources. They are cleaning up all of their oil and coal fired generating plants and they figure they can control the pollution better at these sources than trying to control it in individual vehicles.

As I work for a company that does diagnostic tools for VW/Audi Brands (VAG), we are getting our hands into their ID.4 that is just now being released in the US. We have people in Europe working with their ID.3. These EVs are expensive but are lower end platforms from the the Telsla. That is, they are not being sold as luxury cars. VW wants to capture the daily driver.

Audi with the e-Tron EVs have some very nice luxury cars... We had an A3 E-tron for a while. Learned what we could and moved on to the ID.4.

Charging is an issue. Range for a vehicle is not what the EPA claim. Figure no more than 200 miles on a charge. Why? You don''t want to run your battery lower than 20% and you don't want to charge more than 80%. Lithium battery life does not like full charge or full discharge. So best to keep the battery in the 20-80 range. Battery packs are expected to last about 7 years.. replacent cost is significant.

Acceleration is really awesome because electric motors have huge low rpm torque. Top speed is a problem for electric motors. When they get to high rpm, they cannot deliver power. So at the top end, the EV will not outperform an ICE. But the top end we are speaking about is well north of 130mph.

Our evaluation is that the EV is a great around town solution. Home to work.. home to shopping.. charge overnight - perfect fit. Long trips can be accomplished but will take longer owing to stops to charge along the way.

Cost is substantially less right now because many many charging stations are free or have highly subsidized pricing. Government rebates and such are ending so cost of ownership is rising. As more cars are produced and driven, expect all pricing to rise.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #1,773  
I'm curious about the math; this implies that on his drive, which sounds like about 36-45 miles (assuming that pickup got 10-15mpg), the Tesla is using about 4kWh.

The Teslas get about 30kWh/100mi according to the epa (+/- depending on the model); at that rate, 4kWh would get you about 13 miles.

So, I'm missing a factor of 3 somewhere.
24-30 kWh/100 miles from the power grid for Model 3. My Model S is 38 kWh/100 miles.

In-car display will indicate power drawn from battery, about 85% of what was put in.

Teslafi (a 3rd party subscription monitoring service) will try to tally cost.
 

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   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #1,774  
Charging is an issue. Range for a vehicle is not what the EPA claim. Figure no more than 200 miles on a charge. Why? You don''t want to run your battery lower than 20% and you don't want to charge more than 80%. Lithium battery life does not like full charge or full discharge. So best to keep the battery in the 20-80 range. Battery packs are expected to last about 7 years.. replacent cost is significant.
May be the situation with VW/Audi but the EPA range and consumption for Tesla is very accurate. I easily beat off-interstate.

My Model S battery is 7 years 5 months old. Has 95% of original capacity.

As for keeping SOC between “20-80%”, there is no standard as to where 0% and 100% so we have no idea how much each manufacturer has fudged. Tesla gives drivers the ability to limit charge levels.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #1,775  
As I understand it, they can each year deduct either a percentage of the initial cost to drill the well or a percentage of the annual revenue from pumping oil out of the well.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that given that a oil or gas well is an asset with a declining value (ie: it's only worth something if they can still pump oil or gas out of it) it makes sense that they can write off their investment into a well as it is "used up" no different than a company being able to write off the cost of a building with a projected lifespan of 40 years over the 40 years that they plan to use it.
It's worth noting that that section of the tax code also applies to mines and quarries which also have large initial investments to get the mine or quarry to where they can start making money out of it by selling product.
Also, I would really hope that they make a lot more out of a well than what they spent on drilling it. Makes no sense to spend $5 million drilling a well that you will not extract more than $5 million worth of oil or gas out of.
There's no either/or. All exploration, development, and extraction expenses come right off the top. Then they get to not pay taxes on 23% of their profits. The federal government has put half a trillion dollars into the pockets of big oil on this scam. Why worry about the general public when you can just buy congressmen?
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #1,776  

This is a place where Hydrogen may be a good fit.
If they get away from using fossil fuels to manufacture hydrogen, rail use would be an excellent fit. The infrastructure could be compact and easy to install, with trained personnel. Trains could go back to pulling a tender, so refueling could be as quick and simple as dropping one tender and hooking up another.

Both wind and solar would be an excellent source for hydrogen. There has been a lot of progress in efficiency using high temperature catalysis in the electrolysis process.

That leaves the question of what to do with all the oxygen. I'm looking forward to a cheaper fill on my oxygen tanks. :cool:
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #1,777  
I'm curious about the math; this implies that on his drive, which sounds like about 36-45 miles (assuming that pickup got 10-15mpg), the Tesla is using about 4kWh.

The Teslas get about 30kWh/100mi according to the epa (+/- depending on the model); at that rate, 4kWh would get you about 13 miles.

So, I'm missing a factor of 3 somewhere.
Ah, you are correct. Talked to him tonight and I was off by a factor of four. It was $1.30 to $1.40 instead of $.30 to $.40. Also he started out using much more energy because of the temptation to floor it but said he had been calm today and this would be normal driving.

Sorry for the misinformation.

RSKY
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #1,778  
Got to say, this really had me chuckling.. An app on his phone produces results that mathematically make no sense.. missing a factor of 3... who made the app? who benefits from telling the user that he is getting his commute at an incredibly low price?

Sorry RSKY.. not trying to pick on you or your son - but are we so easily victim to those that would pull the wool over our eyes?
We were talking at a family Easter get together and there were a dozen kids from 1-1/2 to 12 years running around in the building screaming. I left the $1 off. All my fault. It should have been $1.30 to $1.40.

But the Tesla uses his iPhone app as a key and he uses the app to keep up with his energy usage. He also sets the time he wants to leave for work the next morning and the car pre-heats the battery before that time. At least that is what he tells me. Why it does that I do not know.

He is a non-typical computer nerd that is at home on a John Deere as he is a keyboard.

RSKY
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #1,779  
the car pre-heats the battery before that time. At least that is what he tells me. Why it does that I do not know.

The battery works best in a temperate range. Not too hot (damage can result), not too cold (less usable charge).
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #1,780  
The battery works best in a temperate range. Not too hot (damage can result), not too cold (less usable charge).
What is the temperate rang? My garage is usually 90˚F - 105˚F during the summer months and cools down to 80˚F - 90˚F at night.
Would I have to A/C the garage?
 
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