Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[ruffdog]

I sure wish that some friendly aliens from a far galaxy would help with our energy issue. We need something to replace fossil fuels but I don't think these heavy and short term batteries will be the answer either. The electrical grid is not going to handle everyone charging EVs, especially when the grid goes down.

 

[grsthegreat]

I sure wish that some friendly aliens from a far galaxy would help with our energy issue. We need something to replace fossil fuels but I don't think these heavy and short term batteries will be the answer either. The electrical grid is not going to handle everyone charging EVs, especially when the grid goes down.

Aliens will be using nuclear.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Did Ford just damage their chance of long term success by suggesting the Lighting is light years ahead of the F150's on their lots today?

I often listen to this guy from Denmark.

 

[fatjay]

I think one of the biggest problems with EV's is our current grid production. We are already producing electricity at 100% capacity in nearly every region, and we even import electricity. If 20% of people went out and bought EV's, it would overload the system. We need to build new plants to match demand. My vote is nuclear, and ~20 years ago bush put forth a new plan for 50 in 50. 50 new nuclear plants in 50 years. However, as far as I know, I don't think any have been built.

 

[kenmbz]

I am not sure I want leaky barrels of spent nuclear fuel in my backyard.
They still need to find a better way of disposing before moving forward.
The current waste sites are full, and costs are high.

 

[ning]

I am not sure I want leaky barrels of spent nuclear fuel in my backyard.
They still need to find a better way of disposing before moving forward.
The current waste sites are full, and costs are high.

Fusion's the answer, but how is unfortunately still much in question.

 

[3930dave]

China's edge in EV manufacturing has the rest of automakers on edge it seems.

Welcome to the tech (hardware) sector, circa 1984.

This won't be pretty, here.

Rgds, D.

 

[grsthegreat]

The new ford electric truck says it will need an 80 amp charge for 8 hours to fully recharge. If I was not so lazy I’d calc the cost out. A lot of older houses I work on only have a 100 amp circuit. So I guess they will all need service upgrades along with more power stations.

 

[3930dave]

The electrical grid is not going to handle everyone charging EVs, especially when the grid goes down.

One of the issues with this transition is that many people don't really grasp the scale of the oil industry, or understand the range of products it enables today. The capacity of the oil industry far exceeds what most people ever interact with in a detailed way.

Lately, I often drive past 8 or so Superchargers, after work. A nano-scale comparison can be had, contrasting what that bank can recharge, with what the nearby Costco gas station can refuel for vehicle count in the same time-frame.

I get that this is Early Days, and do tip my hat to Elon for his Build It and They Will Come tenacity that got things this far....... but I still have trouble picturing the viability of long-weekend trips in a T.

Rgds, D.

 

[goeduck]

The new ford electric truck says it will need an 80 amp charge for 8 hours to fully recharge. If I was not so lazy I’d calc the cost out. A lot of older houses I work on only have a 100 amp circuit. So I guess they will all need service upgrades along with more power stations.

So much for taking a trip in one.

 

[txdon]

For trips I guess there will have to be a new etiquette when we stop at someones house and need to "Plug-in". Should monetary compensation be offered, if so how much?

 

[Grumpycat]

Mahle developing magnet-free electric motor that does not require rare earth elements

The possible EV automaker could be German based perhaps since this company is German based. China's edge in EV manufacturing has the rest of automakers on edge it seems.

I think the article is marketing B.S.

They'd have you think they were inventing something new. The first diesel locomotives used magnet-free excited field alternators. Detroit converted from magnet generators to excited field alternators in the 1960s. My Tesla Model S has a magnet free drive motor.

Big breakthrough in efficiency for the Model 3 was the addition of permanent magnets to the motor. The excited field consumes power that a permanent magnet does not need.

And my last point: Rare Earths are not rare.

 

[Grumpycat]

For trips I guess there will have to be a new etiquette when we stop at someones house and need to "Plug-in". Should monetary compensation be offered, if so how much?

Don't worry about it because your host won't have a 50A or greater outlet to make charging worthwhile for many years yet.

Oh, also it is illegal to resell electricity in 99% of the country. Recent exemptions have been made for commercial EV charge sites. So strictly speaking it is illegal to compensate your host.

For most homes around here 50A is 25% of the total available from the utility. Most have 200A service, big homes have 400A.

 

[txdon]

Oh, also it is illegal to resell electricity in 99% of the country. Recent exemptions have been made for commercial EV charge sites. So strictly speaking it is illegal to compensate your host.

RV parks?
Apartments?

Under sub metering.

"Submetered bills are calculated by dividing the net total charges for electric consumption, plus applicable tax, by the total number of kilowatt-hours to obtain an average cost per kilowatt-hour. The average kilowatt-hour cost shall then be multiplied by each tenant's kilowatt-hour consumption to obtain the charge to the tenant."

Metering

www.puc.texas.gov

I guess the best thing to do is when he visits you with his gasoline/diesel vehicle go ahead and fill up his tank. That is what people did in remote areas before filling stations were everywhere and you lived very remotely. I learned this from the tour guide in a remote Lake Tahoe Nevada Mansion when guest from the California coast would visit. (Just a hundred years ago . . . .)

 

[Grumpycat]

RV parks?
Apartments?

Under sub metering.

"Submetered bills are calculated by dividing the net total charges for electric consumption, plus applicable tax, by the total number of kilowatt-hours to obtain an average cost per kilowatt-hour. The average kilowatt-hour cost shall then be multiplied by each tenant's kilowatt-hour consumption to obtain the charge to the tenant."

Metering

www.puc.texas.gov

I guess the best thing to do is when he visits you with his gasoline/diesel vehicle go ahead and fill up his tank. That is what people did in remote areas before filling stations were everywhere and you lived very remotely. I learned this from the tour guide in a remote Lake Tahoe Nevada Mansion when guest from the California coast would visit. (Just a hundred years ago . . . .)

Texas has an unusual situation. The rest of the country resale of electricity is forbidden specifically to address the landlord who decides to add a markup for tenants. Furthermore the state doesn't like making more work for itself so it grants a monopoly on the sale of electricity to utilities.

RV parks may not bill for electricity but may bill by the hour for the camping site which includes electricity. Same as for hotel rooms. In much of the country Tesla bills by the minute for the parking space at Superchargers because they can not bill by the kWh.

 

[txdon]

Who controls the price limits of re-selling of electricity at a EV charging post in or the rate per minute to park at a charging post?

 

[Egon]

Billing procedures are easy to change.

 

[Grumpycat]

Who controls the price limits of re-selling of electricity at a EV charging post in or the rate per minute to park at a charging post?

Free market.

 

[Grumpycat]

Billing procedures are easy to change.

 

[Grumpycat]

Ford claims to be part of "America's largest charging network", Electrify America. Locate A Charger looks quite lame compared to Tesla Find Us Superchargers.

Based on "80A at 240V puts 30 miles of range in the battery per hour" I estimate the Lightning consumes 0.64 kWh/mile. Electrify America bills $0.31/kWh after $4/month membership fee. Ignoring the membership fee this is $0.20/mile. Compared to $3/gallon this is cost equivalent to 15 MPG.

Some sources state the Lightning will add 54 miles in 10 minutes at a 150 kW DC fast charger. Or 15% to 80% SOC in 41 minutes (which is virtually same as 54 miles in 10 minutes if assuming the 300 mile battery). 10 minutes at 150 kW is 25 kWh. 54 miles on 25 kWh is 0.46 kWh/mile. So there is a lot of guesswork yet.

At home my utility charges just under $0.10/kWh so the 0.64 kWh/mile cost equivalent to $3/gallon is 45 MPG. Or about 30 MPG if gasoline was $2.00/gallon.

There is no economic justification to purchase a Lightning for routine long distance travel. The purpose of Tesla Superchargers is not to replace gasoline stations but to facilitate long distance days for relatively rare situations. However there is a good argument when one can charge overnight at home or business.