Breaking in my new toys... from Yeehaw! to Uh oh!

[Spiveyman]

Just curious, but how do you heat the scarifer? Will an open wood fire do the job? We have a butane heater for heating up our branding irons, I might just set that sucker in there.

Did my eyes deceive me, or did you write that someone was coming out to install the tooth bar for you? You do know that it is just 2 holes drilled in the sides of the bucket and two bolts, right? Or is yours different?

HA! I like the tone of your question there jb... cautious as if to say, "Are you THAT sorry?" without actually saying it. Yes, that's all it is, two holes and some bolts. I had every intention of just doing that myself, but the guy who did my FEL for me felt bad that it got delayed so long, and felt bad that they sold the bale spear they'd ordered for me to someone else, so I still don't have that yet, and felt bad that they didn't get the toothbar on the original order. So he said when the bale spear and toothbar came in he'd just send a guy out and tell them to put it on for me. He did say that they would torch the hole instead of drilling - not sure how much that matters. While never being accused of being handy, I do think I could manage that if I had to.

 

[john_bud]

Torch the hole!!! OMG! It's just a 1/2" hole. I wouldn't let them torch my bucket. Then again, I have a 1/2" bit... My opinion is that torching holes is for lazy people, sloppy people, low quality work usually is the result. Now there are probably some high quality, super neat go getters that torch holes. I have not had the privilege of meeting any, yet.

Well, yes. I did read that you said you were pretty much the opposite of handy, didn't want to pick on you....


The propane torch will work. Just takes a bit longer. Normally a "rosebud" tip on an oxygen / acetylene torch is used. Lay it curve up, play the torch on the bent part until they are red hot. Pound them flat with a hand maul or sledge hammer. Something small like this, I would heat it and bend it straight in my bench vice. Let it cool slowly to keep it soft. Wire brush off the burnt paint, prime, repaint and install. You DON'T want to heat the tip of the scarifier. It is hardened steel.

jb

 

[sandman2234]

Sometime later in life I might resort to using a torch to make a half inch hole, but right now I don't even do that with a 2" hole. In fact, I had to be talked into letting my friend cut hole with a torch for a gearbox in half inch steel, as I was fixing to set it up in the mill. (I do everything the hard way). I did drill the 4 bolt pattern around his almost perfect torched hole. A drilled hole just looks better, wears better due to it fitting better, and doesn't mess up any surrounding paint. It also doesn't promote rust nearly as bad.
Buy a good drill bit, and have it ready when he gets there, and tell him you don't allow torches on your property due to insurance and fire regulations. Tell him if he has a fire watch and a million dollar fire policy, you would be happy to let him go ahead, but otherwise, here's your drill.(Fire watch is a person who carries the extinguisher and stays back while the operator is behind his cutting/welding shield)
If you have to bribe him, do it, as you will be happier with it properly done. However, watch him closely, so you will get your money's worth in schooling.
David from jax

 

[jbrumberg]

One should be very, very careful teasing someone who is armed and messes with longhorn cattle ! Jay

 

[Spiveyman]

Well, yes. I did read that you said you were pretty much the opposite of handy, didn't want to pick on you....

OK, OK, so now my manhood is basically on the line. I let the guy torch the hole and not only do I have a sloppy-looking, odd-shaped, rust-ready, paint-destroyed hole, but I'm pretty much a wuss. On second thought, I think I'll just carve the hole with my pocket knife and tighten the bolts with my teeth. HA!

So, point well taken. I'll stop by and get a good 1/2" bit. I have a set of Dewalt bits that has a 1/2" one. Do you have to have a special bit for this type of metal. I've worked with wood, but literally never have done anything with metal. The Dewalt bit has a funky tip to it that's supposed to cut into wood really fast. Doesn't seem ideal for metals. Do I need to use oil when drilling it?

You DON'T want to heat the tip of the scarifier. It is hardened steel.

OK... what happens when you heat hardened steel in a case like this?

One should be very, very careful teasing someone who is armed and messes with longhorn cattle

Ha! Yeah, just ask the cow we had a disagreement with this morning! She had a case of wonderlust, but we cured her of it, permanent-like.

 

[dbdartman]

Spivey, don't get a 1/2" bit for a 1/2" bolt. It'll be too tight. I'd recommend a 9/16" bit!

 

[jbrumberg]

I ended up drilling pilot holes, then I used this "step drill bit" thingie, and I ended up using a 5/8'' bit and had to "egg" the holes on both sides of the bucket because I made consistent matching "perfect" measurements on both sides . What is the old saying "measure twice and cut once" ? At least they match and they do work. I am more pleased with my "handiwork" than I am with the manufacture of NH's bolt-over the bolt-on cutting bar toothbar . Having said all this I really do like the utility of the toothbar . Jay

 

[Spiveyman]

Spivey, don't get a 1/2" bit for a 1/2" bolt. It'll be too tight. I'd recommend a 9/16" bit!

I'll get the bolts before I get the bit, right now I have no idea the actual dim.

jbrumberg - Sounds like we studied at the same school. I can relate to that joke, I cut it THREE times and it's STILL too short! I can measure something, measure it again, mark it, measure it again, cut it or drill it and it still be wrong. Generally speaking I'm not a dense guy, I have an engineering degree from Purdue - but sometimes it is beyond me how I can screw up a project. That's one thing I like about working with wood, you can kind of recover from mistakes lots of time. And if not, put up more trim it just looks fancier.

 

[3RRL]

Spivey, don't get a 1/2" bit for a 1/2" bolt. It'll be too tight. I'd recommend a 9/16" bit!

Good call.
I was gonna suggest a 17/32" but hey, this is a tractor. The step drill thing seems like a good choice too. Be sure to center punch before drilling so the drill doesn't "walk" on you.
Spiv, did you ever see this old thread about installing the toothbar? It was one of the first things I did.
INSTALL TOOTHBAR

 

[sandman2234]

I would go with the 17/32 or 33/64's rather than a 9/16, unless I didn't have them, and did have a 9/16. If your going to buy a drill, and they have the 33/64ths, that is what I would use with a second close as the 17/32".
I personally think the step drill is better suited for sheetmetal, rather than 1/4" plate, but do what you think is best. Whatever you do, go slow and use plenty of cutting oil to save the bit from heat.
David from jax

 

[drssg]

I finally figured out what I wanted to be when I grew up - a cowboy

I checked your profile, and you're looking like a cowboy! I'm sure it's just the timing of the photo, but your horse looks drunk.

Congratulations on your new purchase. It looks beautiful, and your enthusiasm made me smile.

 

[john_bud]

So, point well taken. I'll stop by and get a good 1/2" bit. I have a set of Dewalt bits that has a 1/2" one. Do you have to have a special bit for this type of metal. I've worked with wood, but literally never have done anything with metal. The Dewalt bit has a funky tip to it that's supposed to cut into wood really fast. Doesn't seem ideal for metals. Do I need to use oil when drilling it?

OK... what happens when you heat hardened steel in a case like this?

Actually, you probably want to get a set of metal cutting bits, probably with the TI coating. 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 then the 17/32. Use thread cutting oil on the bit. It will smoke, so keep adding. Using a wood bit will mean a trip to store to buy more bits....

If you heat hardened steel, you will affect it's temper. Probably making it softer and more prone to wear. Then again, if it cools fast, you could make it brittle to the point is cracks easily. Best to just remove it or put a wet rag on that part when you heat it with the torch.



Just remember that working with metal is just like working with wood, only the "putty" comes out of a welder and cures faster!


jb

 

[Spiveyman]

I would go with the 17/32 or 33/64's rather than a 9/16, unless I didn't have them, and did have a 9/16. If your going to buy a drill, and they have the 33/64ths, that is what I would use with a second close as the 17/32".

So if I go metric I need what, a 17.5573 mm? Reckon Harbor Freight carries them?

I personally think the step drill is better suited for sheetmetal, rather than 1/4" plate, but do what you think is best. Whatever you do, go slow and use plenty of cutting oil to save the bit from heat.

Actually, you probably want to get a set of metal cutting bits, probably with the TI coating. 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 then the 17/32. Use thread cutting oil on the bit. It will smoke, so keep adding.

As far as I'm concerned the planets are lined up, metal cutting bits, lots of oil. Roger that.

If you heat hardened steel, you will affect it's temper. Probably making it softer and more prone to wear. Then again, if it cools fast, you could make it brittle to the point is cracks easily. Best to just remove it or put a wet rag on that part when you heat it with the torch.

At the risk of venturing into that wuss category again... for $9 I think I'll just get a new one.

I checked your profile, and you're looking like a cowboy! I'm sure it's just the timing of the photo, but your horse looks drunk.

How do you think we get the horses to take on a 2,000 lb bull with horns! You have to get them sauced up man! Didn't you ever watch any old John Wayne movies?

OK, changed the picture to one where the horse is dried out. That better?

 

[sandman2234]

Around here, HF only carries up to half inch, but their set of of fractional/numbers/letters is worth the $39.95 my wife paid on sale with a discount coupon. (Titanium Nitrate coated) I break them regularly, but went back and got a second set as a backup. I imagine your going to have to find a real tool supply store for a 17/32 drill bit. A 1/2" and a little wallowing will probably work, if all else fails.
Anybody that will take on a Longhorn steer isn't really a wuss, by the way.
David from jax

 

[rustyanchor]

Tim,
The DeWalt bits with the funny tips are probably 'Bullet Points', they used to be sold under the Black&Decker brand. If they are 'Bullet Points', they are good bits and do very well in metal, wood, and plastic. On metal, use cutting oil and these bits will keep drilling for a long time. One of the selling points of these bits is/was they do not require a pilot hole.
The newer sets are gold colored, not sure if it is TN coated or not, but they do drill good holes. The older silver colored ones work just fine too.

Mark

 

[Spiveyman]

...did you ever see this old thread about installing the toothbar?

Rob, I read through that. How important is it to weld the plates on? The literature basically just said that the force on the toothbar is always pushing, so you don't really have to fix it that firmly, that the two bolts on the side are good enough. I sure hope so...

Anybody that will take on a Longhorn steer isn't really a wuss, by the way.

HA! Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've faced down some pretty big bulls and cows. Luckily they are not out to kill you, but when you are trying to get them to do something they do not want to do it can get interesting. Kind of puts things in perspective when some punk tries to mug you at the mall after you've gone face to face with this guy:


That was Black Magic. We did a full head mount on him since he was our first kill.

The DeWalt bits with the funny tips are probably 'Bullet Points', they used to be sold under the Black&Decker brand. If they are 'Bullet Points', they are good bits and do very well in metal, wood, and plastic. On metal, use cutting oil and these bits will keep drilling for a long time. One of the selling points of these bits is/was they do not require a pilot hole.

This is what I have:


They seem to be great bits.

 

[john_bud]

HA! Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've faced down some pretty big bulls and cows. Luckily they are not out to kill you, but when you are trying to get them to do something they do not want to do it can get interesting. Kind of puts things in perspective when some punk tries to mug you at the mall after you've gone face to face with this guy:

.

The only way I want to get face to face with that big dude is across a bun with him playing the lead part of "burger-meister".

jb

 

[jbrumberg]

I would not mind a few prime cuts of Mr. Black Magic on my grill ! Jay

 

[sandman2234]

Well, you might have doubts about your tools, but your camera sure beats mine. I have problems with close up shots, and really should try to learn that new camera my daughter gave me last year. I prefer my Sony Mavica, but it is getting dated. I prefer to spend my money on endmills and other such trivia. I haven't seen those particular drill bits, but it looks like somebody is making money on an old design. Similar to a counterbore. Let us know how they work out.
David from jax

 

[3RRL]

Tim,
Bolting is good enough I'm sure.
Welding the plates is just added strength to keep the bucket hole from elongating over time (years). LOL ... Murphy's Law though ... you know what I mean?
Oh BTW, when you get that drill to break through the bucket wall, be sure to hold on tight an let off the pushing pressure a little so it can cut through the metal without twisting your arms off.