Breaking in my new toys... from Yeehaw! to Uh oh!

[jbrumberg]

JC:

I want to thank you for the schematics. Now I know what a rockshaft is , and I do hope Spiveyman's problem is the lynchpin. Jay

 

[sandman2234]

I learned the hard way what a rockshaft was, which I am afraid is fixing to happen to Spiveyman. I twisted the one on my Ford 1100 by getting a post hole digger stuck. Using a box blade, I just can't figure how he could have done that unless it was already twisted, and he just finished it off. The one on my Ford twisted the splines, but is still operating. I did tell the new owner about it, and even located a new and a used part for him, but he declined until it breaks. It wasn't cheap in either form, as the 6610 probably won't be. Just the shaft new was $350 and the whole rockshaft assembly used was $500.
David from jax

 

[jinman]

Thanks john_bud & jbrumberg. I spent the last hour looking for other threads on the subject. Found several, but I'm not sure I found what I was looking for.

Tim, I'm sure by now you have found your problem, but it sure sounds familiar to me. Fords have the adjustable tilt link on the right side. That's the link that goes between the rockshaft lift arm and the lower lift arm. I can tell you that I have had that tilt adjustment come loose several times because it rotates by itself enough to just come unscrewed and drop. I've also had one break at the attachment fork on the lower link and several times had pins come out. I think you will find your problem to be obvious in the daylight and may be a simple fix. At most, I think you may have a welding job on the right side adjustable link.

 

[JC-jetro]

JC:

I want to thank you for the schematics. Now I know what a rockshaft is , and I do hope Spiveyman's problem is the lynchpin. Jay

You are welcome jay . On my lift cylinder head I do have a safety relief device that is not adjustable. The spring is quite stiff. The idea is even if I push my 3 point to the limit like trying to lift 5000 lbs with my 3 point long before any mechanical failure the relief will pop off and relives the hydraulic pressure. I know in mine I can not twist my rockshaft no matter how hard I try since my relief is operational and I have tested it. I more think Tim's issue is somewhere between the bottom ad top link on the right side of the lift system, hopefully a sheared off or busted lynch pin.

JC,

ps. I reckon you can still twist the rockshaft after it hydraulic limit by simply pushing the tractor forward or backward to free something up. that is a heck of lot more stress and is entirely a different issue beyond hydraulic limit.

 

[Spiveyman]

Howdy to all of my new TBN friends. Thank you so much for taking the time to post here, it's humbling to see so many people willing to take their time and help someone you've just barely met.

When last I posted I had a couple of serious issues hanging over me, the problem with the 3ph and some bad links - not the kind of links you find on a tractor, but the sausage kind you find on a plate at an IHOP. I spent one of the longest nights of my life lamenting that fateful lunch decision. Let's just say Soundguy will be plowing a snow bank before I eat there again. But alas, I'm about 80% back to normal, mostly rehydrated and ready to tackle my 6610 3ph issue.

However, before we get to the 3ph deal I have to share a few other events to give you all some insight into my life and why I don't go sky diving. We got home from church this morning, I scarfed some dinner (that's lunch to you folk in the north), I hopped in my truck and headed to the farm. I was on a state 2 lane road and saw a little econo-SUV up ahead. The guy was doing about 37 mph on an unmarked rural road - so the limit is 55. I am typically fairly generous with my fuel consumption , so my closing rate to this guy was almost the same is his closing rate to the mailboxes on the side of the road. I slowed down behind the guy, not on his tail or anything, he hit his brakes and pulled half way off the road. I thought, OK, I'll swing around him and be on my way. Just as I pulled up to his left rear quarter panel I saw the driver's window go down and a snub nosed .38 come out aimed at me! I ducked and floored it around the guy all the time waiting for one of my windows to shatter. None did, but holy cow! Of course about this time my dander is in full up-right-position and I had half a mind to pull out my .45 and explain to this dude the benefits of increased caliber and capacity weapons! Don't worry, I'm smarter than that.

So, back to tractor stuff... I made it to the farm ahead of a front. Drove around to the barn. I was almost giddy to get to spend some quality time with my tractor again. You're right sandman, withdrawal can be worse than food poisoning. I walked around her looking over the 3ph system with a much more critical eye. I also realized that I'd left all the printed schematics on my printer. Aaargh! I decided to start her up and get a closer look at what was happening. I hopped in the seat, pressed the clutch, and turned the key. "lugh-errr.... lugh............." The freaking battery was dead! Just what I needed.

So, I popped the hood (as if I was going to be able to see something wrong) and lacking any really great ideas I took the battery out. I figured I could have it tested or get a new one later on this week. When I popped it out I noticed the clamp holding the muffler on. Funny thing is, the muffler always seemed backwards to me. It vented forwards which means every time I go under a branch the stack catches the branch. The FEL also hits it in the full up position. So I figured I'd do SOMETHING productive and turn that puppy around.



At this point the day could not be a total loss.

Well, I decided to at least unhook the BB. Here's maybe one clue, the lift arms seemed to be in a bind, as if there was pressure - like one being pushed up, the other down. The tractor was off, so the lift arms should have been floating, but they were really tight. I'm not sure why. The floor of the barn is uneven, so the front tires are dipped down a bit, causes the back of the tractor to be elevated such that in the lowest position the 3ph doesn't quite come down low enough to pick up my carry all. The box blade was clearly resting on the ground though. Never the less, I brought a hydrolic floor jack with me and a board to set it on. (I always try to be prepared because stuff like this happens all the time to me.) I jacked up one end of the BB, and put a 4X4 under it. Jacked up the other side, put another 4X4 under it. The lift arms still had incredible pressure being put on the draw pins. I unhooked the top link, then I took a small sledge hammer and a large punch and I drove the pin out of the right lift arm ball. I also tapped the side of the right lift arm a couple of times - not hard, but enough to get it to budge. Finally I drove the pin completely out. When I did that the arm came to rest lower than the position of the pin and the pressure was released from the left arm. I could pull that pin out by hand. At this point I could lift up on either arm, and both arms would lift. The right was noticeably lower, so I cranked on the adjustment for the right arm to even them up. Forgive me for not knowing the correct names, but in the 05A05 drawing, part #6 - those arms seemed to be in the same position right to left. I was kind of expecting them to be off, but they do not appear to be. Not sure why I did not get these both in the SAME picture, but here's what each one looks like:



I studied the 3ph to figure out how the dang thing works. It kind of dawned on me at this point. Everything below the rockshaft area - the passive section as I will call it, looked to be fine. All pins were in place, everything looked as I expected it should look - the stabilizer arm, the lift arm, and the lift rod. I could lift the arm and it functioned smoothly, both arms would go up and down.

About this time the monsoon arrived. Now don't get me wrong, I made a vow that I'd never again complain about the rain. Funny how God seems to take that as a challenge. Keep in mind it hasn't rained a drop out there in probably over a month. I also figured out why a month ago my seat had water in it while under the shed on the side of the barn. The old tin roof has a few leaks in it. But it was rain so I basically danced around like a stark raving lunatic getting soaked. I'll take the rain regardless.




At this point I packed up the battery and headed to town.

(To be continued... I'm going to break up the post and keep going)

Edited: Increased the picture resolution as requested

 

[Spiveyman]

On my way to town I decided to call the local TSC just to see if anyone was there. It was Sunday afternoon in the south, but who knows maybe it'll be open. Sure enough they were, and they had one battery left of my type. So, I wheeled on in there in the rain, plopped down $116 and headed back out to the farm!! I didn't feel like messing with trying to diagnose the battery, charge it up, only to have the same thing happen next time. My seat time is too precious to fool around with a poor battery.

I put the new battery in and she started up and purred like a kitten, well a kitten with a bit of a cold, but still a good diesel purr. Finally diesel exhaust!!! This was the motivation I needed. I juped up in the seat and pulled up on the lever, both arms came up like they were supposed to:



So I ask you, what is worse: a problem that you diagnose but can't fix, or one that you can't really diagnose, and didn't really fix, but seems to have gone away? I don't like it when problems get better when I didn't fix them because the propensity to return is taken out of my hands as well. I thought maybe having a load on them would cause a problem (spline damaged but not broken??) I hooked up the BB, which was very easy, all pins just slipped right in. I jumped back in the seat and lifter her right up, both arms came up under the load:



If the BB is not perfectly level there, neither is the ground and I just eyeballed the level of each lift arm before, but here you can see up next to the seat the lift portion of the system, those joints are very close to the same position.

And yes, it quit raining too, short furious rain.

So what gives? I decided to put some force on it. Where the barn floor was not level, there was also some dried up mud where the cattle had been in there last year - great ankle breaking ground now. I backup up to the back wall and drug her out. Turned around and dozer'd the dirt back, then drug it back to level it out. The floor's now level, the BB did as it should, and the lift works fine. The other night when I pulled up on the lift lever, the left arm came about half way up before the right one moved. I lowered it back down, lifted it back up, repeated, got off the tractor, the thing was sitting at about a 30ｰ or so. It was very obvious, the left most scarifer was hitting the tread on the left wheel!! But today it was working.

So there you go TBN'ers. Put on your thinkin' caps (love that line from "Next of Kin" Liam Neeson playing a KY boy). Anyone want to venture a guess? I suppose I'll take her back out this week and put it through it's paces and see what happens. Maybe it was a fluke (not with my luck), maybe it'll break all the way so I can fix the dang thing. I fear this saga is not over, but merely on hold.

Thanks again for the info. I really do understand the system beter, not completely yet, and that exploded view of the rockshaft area gives me heartburn, but I'm getting there. At least I understand JC-jetro's pictures now and know what a rockshaft is!!! Hopefully my next pictures will be of that dam area all cleaned up rather than my BB sitting at an angle.

Edited: Increased resolution of pictures

 

[Spiveyman]

Hey one more quick question, since I appear to be back in business. Is there any danger of me driving my tractor across the dam for my pond? Or more so, on the back side of the dam where I want to level out the dirt. Do I need to stay "X" amount away from the top of the dam. A friend said he never drives across his dams with his tractor because he doesn't want to damage the dam. Didn't a dozer create the dam? Doesn't the dozer weigh 5 or 6 times what my tractor weighs? Can you really cause damage to the dam by driving over it? I wouldn't think so if the dam is made right, but thought I'd better ask before doing something stupid - you know, me and Murphy!

 

[JC-jetro]

I really do understand the system beter, not completely yet, and that exploded view of the rockshaft area gives me heartburn, but I'm getting there. At least I understand JC-jetro's pictures now and know what a rockshaft is!!! Hopefully my next pictures will be of that dam area all cleaned up rather than my BB sitting at an angle.

Tim,

It is too late to put my thinking cap on. I see we might have been bamboozled by your tractor and it is tricking us, although I'm glad it's working somehow. next time please be less stingy with your picture size. my Sherlock Holmes' magnifying glass had hard time to decipher the information. By the way did you have to adjust your crank arm like Jinman suggested?

well.. we'll be here to read and enjoy you story ,,,, but Snub Nose .38 caiber.. Yikes I try to avoid being in it's line of sight at all times

JC,


p.s . about the darn dam question.... the dozer probably comes from the side to collect and push earthen dam rather than driving on top of it. need to consider the width and construction method to see if it will handle your 4000 lb or so tractor.

 

[Spiveyman]

There you go JC-jetro, I put in full size pics. However, when I click them I don't get the full res. Maybe photobucket shrinks the one's that are too big. (Edit: Hey JC-jetro, just curious, but you are clicking on the pictures aren't you? Those are just thumbs that should launch a bigger picture. I re-uploaded all the pictures at full resolution 3456X2304, but they aren't coming across that way. Not sure if the linked pics are too small, or if you were just looking at the thumbs.)

I promise you, I'm not crying wolf here. The thing was messed up. I even looked at the left rear tire and you can see where the scarifer took a chunk out of the tread. Should have taken a picture.

If by the "Crank arm" you are talking about the manual adjustment for the right lift arm height, yes, that is what I did as soon as I got the BB off the 3ph. The right arm was noticeably lower, it took several cranks to get it back close to height of the left, and I think I still left it a tad lower - not on purpose, but in looking at the pics now.

And by the way, my 6610 is closer to 9,000 lbs (5575 lbs tractor - from manual specs, ~1,000 lb X 2 filled rear tires, + FOPS, + FEL, + any 3ph implement.) So maybe I should stay away from the dam???

 

[jinman]

If by the "Crank arm" you are talking about the manual adjustment for the right lift arm height, yes, that is what I did as soon as I got the BB off the 3ph. The right arm was noticeably lower, it took several cranks to get it back close to height of the left, and I think I still left it a tad lower - not on purpose, but in looking at the pics now.

Tim, I hate to say "operator error", but that's what this is looking like. I see several things that I think contributed to your problem.

1. Your 3PH tilt adjustment was out of level. If you had levelled it before trying to remove the lift arms from the BB, things would have been much easier. You probably would not have had to use a hammer to get the balls off the pins. You said you did it AFTER you removed the BB, and that's what gave me this clue.

2. What is the adjustment on your toplink? Did you lengthen the toplink while you were using the boxblade? While dozing in reverse to get a more agressive cut? Extending the toplink makes the scarifiers get closer to your tires. Shortening it pulls the scarifiers away from your tires. Those of us with hydraulic toplinks normally see this clearly.

3. Do you have stabilizers attached to your 3PH, or do the arms just swing freely from side-to-side? I can't see stabilizer bars in any of your pictures.

4. Are your tires a larger than stock size? They seem wider and taller than the original tires?

5. I took the liberty to copy and crop the picture of your boxblade from the side that you posted in the beginning of your post. It is attached. That scarifier on the right side of your boxblade is very, very close to the rear tire. It happens that if falls very near the center of the tire where the tire has the greatest diameter. It those fat tires are on standard rims, then the tire's diameter may be increased even more than it should be.

6. I just think all these things came into play at the same time and that's what caused your problem. The reason the left arm lifted before the right arm is that the right arm was adjusted much lower. The 3PH does not have down pressure. So when you set it down, it will flatten out on the ground, but when you lift it, then the shortest link arm lifts first. I think thats what happened in addition to an extended toplink and no sway stabilizers.

That's what I think happened, but I've been wrong before.