Clunking in front axle?

[radios1]

I’ll place a bet it isn’t the diff. 100:1 it’s not those gears. If you can’t figure out what side to take apart, flip a coin and take the final drive off as described above by Bud

it could be bad bearings, and that could damage those gears from slamming them together..

 

[skipmarcy]

You can have a whole outdrive off the front axle assy in about 10 min once you do one. I can change a snapped front axle in my 4110 in about 15 min. out in the field. I keep a spare front axle and a countershaft for one of the drive assemblies here at the house although I haven't snapped one in over 8 years now.

Get the front axle/tractor up on jack stands. Remove wheel. Remove tie rod with pickle fork. Place floor jack under drive assy. Remove 6 bolts that hold outdrive to axle housing. Wheel outdrive straight out on floor jack until it clears axle shaft and HANG ON to the outdrive - it is heavy and wobbles around on the floor jack until you can let it down to the ground.

With outdrive on ground you can turn it by hand to hear/feel anything out of whack with it. The axle shaft will slip right out of the axle housing/differential. If there IS a problem with the diff, you will have to remove both outdrives as I have mentioned to get the diff out of the axle housing anyway. I have never had any other problem with an outdrive except the countershaft - I have snapped maybe 4 or 5 in about 3k hours. It was usually an axle that would snap and lose 4x4 but not cause any grinding of metal. Since I changed rear tire size I all but quit breaking anything in the front drive system.

 

[Navasot]

You havnt lost any hub bolts have you? most likely you got some bearings going out in the outer hubs letting the gears have slack and putting them in hitch every now and then

 

[DirtHauler]

Drained the remainder from the center plug and got about 3x as much shavings, and discernably larger. Should I assume that means the spider gear is going or shot? I have both wheels off anyways to get my pan under the side plugs to drain so I could pull the hubs to check the final gears but maybe not worth it knowing that most of the shavings are from center? Easy way to check the spider gear?

Well unfortunately, due to the nature of gravity, the metal shavings have/will find their way down to the lowest point i.e. outer axle ends (final drives) and along the way get into all the bearing races and in turn jam the bearings and/or grind the races. If the issue ends up being the differential assembly, you might be able to get away with just replacing carrier/pinion bearings & shims and but you'll have to flush out and inspect the left & right final bearings.
So with that being said, you may have to "bite the bullet", mortgage your house and buy a new axle assembly (may be cheaper and quicker in the long run). I've searched and can't find a parts break down for your front axle (Mahindra or TYM).

 

[PILOON]

I experienced a similar situation with my CUT.
Turned out that the 8 bolts that attached the ring gear were sheered and sitting in the bottom of my front differential.
Long and short I purchase a new set of ring an pinion and when I installed I used locktight and also wire locked the attaching bolts so that they would no longer work loose.
That was some 500 hrs ago.
To this day I believe the lock tabs that supposedly kept the 8 bolts were not properly installed. Probably miss torqued at factory but being a used tractor no warranty was available.
OK, I do work it hard at times but my cure is standing up. (knock wood) so far so good!

 

[patchfarm]

I took the right side partially apart the other day, and the bearings I could see looked fine. I did find some damage to one of the lower gears, as seen in the photos. I think I need to wait for a warm day and pull both sides and fully investigate it looks like. I can't imagine that that gear is the cause of the issue...rather it seems to me maybe it sustained damage because of a larger issue? Or perhaps it is the source?

 

[RNeumann]

“Lower gear” in the final drive or are you zoomed in on the diff.

 

[sd455dan]

Looking at the pictures


in addition to the large chips / damage in the drive gear teeth-


there are multiple vertical striations on the tooth face.

That is Suspicious...

Then looking at the large bevel ring gear
the shiny wear marks on the outer teeth face (right up to each tooth edge)
imo indicates excessive tooth lash between the gears.

The tooth faces should be smooth since they are a (sliding) surface that is created between the two gear tooth faces as the gears turn while meshed.


I would bet there is a bearing failure in either the support bearings for the damaged bevel drive gear vertical shaft bearings and /or the outer driven ring gear support bearing

(allowing movement /misalignment) since the inner bearing looks to be intact.

The most likely way to get those long striations is excessive gear lash-
I think the clearance got so large the tooth edges were actually digging into the small driven gears face as it was trying to drive the large ring gear,
also appears to be other misalignment going on and can't tell for sure from the picture but the ring gear does seem to have wear and (possibly) a damaged tooth face?
The oil on the ring gear may be making a reflective shine that appears as wear???


if it were mine, (When possible)- would check out the bevel drive gear vertical shaft support bearings and also the outer hub bearing. It will all need to be cleaned out anyway.

Patchfarm Hopefully the weather improves and you can get the tractor inside a nice warm shop to dig a bit deeper. Good job on digging into it. :thumbsup:

 

[ruffdog]

Looking at the pictures, in addition to the large chips / damage in the drive gear teeth- there are multiple vertical striations on the tooth face. The tooth faces should be smooth since they are a (sliding) surface that is created between the two gear tooth faces as the gears turn while meshed.

Yes, I saw those vertical marks on the small gear too. Normally, when you have a bevel gear set like this, the small drive gear will be machined at a higher quality, smoother, and harder than the large gear. It seems like some newer equipment has less emphasis on quality than it did years back. I believe the the marks on the small gear are crude machining marks, and on a hardened part, may lead to stress cracks.

 

[Bud Soda]

The outer bearing is the one that goes bad. Balls get out and get between the gears.

 

[DirtHauler]

I took the right side partially apart the other day, and the bearings I could see looked fine. I did find some damage to one of the lower gears, as seen in the photos. I think I need to wait for a warm day and pull both sides and fully investigate it looks like. I can't imagine that that gear is the cause of the issue...rather it seems to me maybe it sustained damage because of a larger issue? Or perhaps it is the source?View attachment 589541View attachment 589542View attachment 589543View attachment 589544View attachment 589545

Those chipped teeth are a sign that one or more ball bearings have come out of the bearing cage and fallen between the gears. At the top of that shaft there's a couple bearings, I suspect that it's one of these that is bad. There's another at the bottom. You'll have to remove the "cap" on the bottom of gear case to get to it. When you remove it, I'll bet you find a lot metal shavings there.

 

[Bud Soda]

I had the same damage to the same gear. I cleaned it up the best I could with a dremel tool. I had to replace parts 13,14,21, and 16 only. FRONT GEAR CASE 2 - T33NH - TYM Tractors

 

[Oldpath05]

That's pretty good when you can clean up broken teeth, and just replace 13,14,21,16.

 

[Bud Soda]

That's pretty good when you can clean up broken teeth, and just replace 13,14,21,16.

I know right. I'm just that good, the best I've ever seen. I'm thinking about becoming a Dentist. Just like gears, some people are born with more teeth than they really need.

 

[radios1]

That's pretty good when you can clean up broken teeth, and just replace 13,14,21,16.

it don't work that way in the long run.. the gear needs to be replaced..

 

[Oldoak]

it don't work that way in the long run.. the gear needs to be replaced..

Not if he trades the tractor in or sells it to an unsuspecting individual. That is why I always prefer to buy "new" rather than "used" if I can afford it.

Not suggesting that Bud Soda would, but there are certainly people out there that would not hesitate.

 

[Bud Soda]

Not if he trades the tractor in or sells it to an unsuspecting individual. That is why I always prefer to buy "new" rather than "used" if I can afford it.

Not suggesting that Bud Soda would, but there are certainly people out there that would not hesitate.

Here me now and believe me later. I know its not the best way to do things. I definitely would not do it to a helicopter tail rotor gear or anything my life depended on. In my case my tractor was a mile back in the woods. If I had it at home I would have broken it all down and replaced everything. I did the same thing to a 15hp boat motor gear years ago. Ran it over 10 years with no trouble. I have used the tractor a few hours moving dirt. I ran it at road speed, no noise or vibration. Not selling the tractor as I still owe on it and I use it about everyday. If I had the gear out I could repair it with my mig welder. Done that before also. The pinion gear is the soft gear, the ring gear is hardened. I may change it when the bearing goes out again.

 

[Oldoak]

Here me now and believe me later. I know its not the best way to do things. I definitely would not do it to a helicopter tail rotor gear or anything my life depended on. In my case my tractor was a mile back in the woods. If I had it at home I would have broken it all down and replaced everything. I did the same thing to a 15hp boat motor gear years ago. Ran it over 10 years with no trouble. I have used the tractor a few hours moving dirt. I ran it at road speed, no noise or vibration. Not selling the tractor as I still owe on it and I use it about everyday. If I had the gear out I could repair it with my mig welder. Done that before also. The pinion gear is the soft gear, the ring gear is hardened. I may change it when the bearing goes out again.

I repeat, as I specifically stated in more original comment:

Not suggesting that Bud Soda would

 

[patchfarm]

Well, I finally had a chance to fully pull both Final Drives off each side. What I found looking down the tube from the left side does not seem encouraging. It looks like gear bevel on the front diff and the pinion bevel is toast. I haven't pulled the bearings/gears on each final drive but as shown in a previous post, at least the right side needs some work. With all that being said, can I get an honest answer on if it might just be easier to buy a whole new axle assembly rather than pulling ever last bearing/shim/gear apart and ultimately finding a lot needing replacement? And if it's best to start pulling things apart, do I need to bring the final drives to a shop or can I remove these bearings with typical tools? I might be out of my league here...in case ya'll hadn't noticed.

 

[RNeumann]

Wow! That’s not a common issue! Sorry to see that. I doubt a whole new axle is the solution. If it’s over your head their are mobile heavy equipment mechanics that can tackle this. The normal operation would be to remove the front axle and work on it on a bench. You could do the R and R and a shop could do the ring and pinion setup and replacement. Setting backlash, pinion depth etc isn’t that big of a deal for a gear/axle or heavy equipment mechanic/shop.