Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad?

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   / Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad? #51  
I don't know very many people who have concealed carry permits,, but I just have to pass on the story of one I know who did. I was close friends with the owner of a 24 hour convenience store who was also a retired policeman. He had forbidden any of his employees to carry a weapon at the store, fearing the liability. But, one of his clerks had a permit, and carried his pistol at the store, anyway.

The store was the only 24 hour store in that section of town, so the on-duty police officers were frequent visitors. One night about 1 AM, when there were no other customers in the store, the clerk and an officer were standing in front of the store enjoying a smoke. The clerk was carrying his pistol in his trouser pocket. He had his hand in his pocket and was playing with the gun. Somehow, he managed to pull the trigger, shot a hole in his pants, narrowly missed both his and the officer's feet, and ricocheted the bullet off the sidewalk into the patrol car.

The clerk was promptly cuffed and placed in the patrol car and the store owner was called. I happened to be with him when he got the call. We went to the store, watched the clerk bundled off to the pokey, and I stayed with my friend the rest of the night to keep him company while he ran the store.

The next morning, my friend bailed out his clerk and then fired him. I never did hear how his hearing came out. But, that's type type of idiot I'm talking about.

I have another friend whose son had a permit to carry. The son came home one evening and was showing his father the new gun he had just purchased. Somehow, it went off, went through the ceiling and missed the trusses, and went on out through the cement tile roof. No injury, no foul, his father patched the roof and forbade his son to carry any weapons into the house again. Another idiot - both of them. I could tell you about the night that the father, after several drinks on the patio, heard a bird call in the woods across the river from his house. He went in and got his bedroom gun and, before I could reason with him, shot it into the woods blindly in an absolutely absurd attempt to shoot the bird. Needless to say, I got out of there in a hurry. Thank goodness, he does not have a permit and does not carry it. Maybe it was his lack of training.

Are these exceptions to the rule? I don't know. They are the only experiences I have had with people who have guns, other than police officers and a friend I had who was on a pistol competition team, so it should be understandable that I may have a bias.
 
   / Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad? #52  
Don, looks like their 15 minutes of fame got them nowhere! I hate to hear about the Barney Fifes of the world poluting the gene pool.

A mildly related story: I have a coworker that was back home in the UK during Christmas. There was a cop killed and 3 others wounded because the guy they arrested pulled a gun on them and began shooting as he was placed in the back of the cop car. The guy shot until he ran out of bullets because the Bobbies do not carry guns.

These are extreme stories and hopefully rare events.
 
   / Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad? #53  
It amazes me that folks who do get a permit and carry, or have a firearm for home defense don't educate themselves about proper use. Along with gun ownership comes a huge responsibility.

I have had a concealed carry permit for almost 20 years and am all for them. But within the last year or so, I took some training on self defense and discovered that many of the things I have heard others say (like. if you shoot him and he leaves the house, drag him back inside) is just plain wrong and makes you look guilty.

In my opinion, states should mandate some sort of self defense class that also covers the laws of that state) to go along with the permit. This will dispel misinformation and provide a clear understanding of the proper use of lethal force. A good book to read on the subject is " In the gravest extreme" by Massad Ayoob.
 
   / Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad? #54  
Don - My experience has been just the opposite of yours. Growing up in small town Texas, guns was/is a part of life. I have been shooting since I was old enough to hold a gun up. All through my growing up years until this day, 50+ years, I have hunted and target shot with many individuals. Very few showed the lack of respect for a firearm that you mentioned. Those I just stayed away from. Maybe that was because of proper training from our fathers, uncles, etc. They would not tolerate that kind of action. A lot of people buy guns because they hear of others having them or they think they can protect themselves with it. Unfortunately you can buy a gun and have absolutely no knowledge of how to use it. Safe use of guns is mostly common sense, but there is often a severe lack of that around. Don't know of a good solution to that problem. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
   / Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad? #55  
<font color="blue">In my opinion, states should mandate some sort of self defense class that also covers the laws of that state) to go along with the permit. </font>

Texas does do just that, along with making you take a proficiency test (both shooting and written).

Texas CHL Guide

<font color="blue">...is just plain wrong and makes you look guilty </font>

Yep, and also illegal. "Old wives tales" like this are also covered in the classes here.
 
   / Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad? #56  
The Missouri training class that I took back in October spent about 1 1/2 hours on when you can and can't shoot. Also when even though you can, maybe you shouldn't. Duty to retreat and all that.

"A man with a gun is a citizen, a man without a gun is a subject"
 
   / Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad? #57  
The movie Tombstone is one of my favorites. I love ol'Doc Holiday. Done a lot of research on him ever since I discovered him back when I was in college at Valdosta State my freshman year. He was a native of that area and there were many legends about him there before he went west. A colorful character to be sure. Anyway, y'all notice the first thing that Wyatt and his brothers did to impose law and order was remove the guns by ordinace. I am all for gun ownership and choices but I feel that I would rather not live in a society patrolled by armed guards, armed aircraft, tanks, army personel on street corners and armed citizens with concealed weapons. I would rather they be not concealed that way I know to go the other way /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. What is next, the fine art of duelling and quickdraw between punks in the shopping mall with us all ducking and running? No thanks on my part /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. Howabout we support the police whose job it is to protect society, leave the military out of it and not allow concealed weapons on citizens who may not always have the public's best interest at heart when they unskin their hog.
"Why Johnny Ringo, you were'nt no Daisy at all". J
 
   / Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad? #58  
Don, it sounds like you've been hanging around with the wrong sort of folks! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Perhaps the fact that they are idiots is also the reason that you were aware that they had CCL's. I know a few people that have one, and others that probably do, but it just doesn't seem to come up in conversation.

I feel compelled to point out that the last two instances you cite have one thing in common. A guy who doesn't have a CCL. The father could easily have caused the negligent discharge of the son's pistol, given his actions later. I mean, it wouldn't do the son any good to be carrying around an unloaded pistol, would it?

You can bet the first guy won't ever have a CCL again, at any rate.

Oh, in keeping this tractor-related, mine is orange. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad? #59  
<font color="blue"> it sounds like you've been hanging around with the wrong sort of folks! </font>

I take note of the smilie, and know you meant this in jest. But, it did occur to me as I was writing my post that it might be true. I felt reassured that in the first case, I didn't know the store clerk, and just happened to be with the store owner when it occurred

In the second case, the father is not an idiot unless he's drunk, and he pretty much cured that problem a while ago. It was the alcohol that caused him to shoot through his own screen at a noise in the dark...as it could easily be alcohol that would cause someone who was carrying to "forget" their training, despite the fact that in many places, it's illegal to carry when drunk. It was partly my fault. Even though I quit drinking back in 1977, I'd been on a cruise and brought back some duty-free rum, which I gave to him because he took care of our dog while we were away. He proceeded to drink most of it, and I didn't stop him, or slow him down. But, I never expected him to get that goofy. I didn't even know he had a gun.

The son didn't have to be drunk to be an idiot. A real shame -- one of the smartest idiots I've ever seen, so smart that he felt like he was above the law. A real tragedy -- he's dead now, from an overdose at age 32. But, he never had a conviction, so he had a permit.

Before someone thinks this might be a story about trash, the parents are both respected professionals in the community, well off, the son's sisters turned out better than OK, and the son had a good, private school education.

I actually toned the story down a little, because I didn't think anyone would believe it. The weapon in question was a small machine pistol of some sort that had been illegally converted to full automatic, and when it went off, it actually circled around, gouging the floor, burying slugs in a sofa, shooting out a sliding glass door panel, and putting 3 or 4 slugs through the roof. The kid was obviously a psychopath, but he could convince you, me and the licensing folks that he was a choir boy.
 
   / Concealed Weapons Good Or Bad? #60  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( What is next, the fine art of duelling and quickdraw between punks in the shopping mall with us all ducking and running?)</font>

That's an absurd argument that hasn't happened in any state where they have allowed citizens to carrey concealed weapons.

Would you rather live in such crime free places as NY, DC, Chicago, Detroit, or one of the many cities and states that allow CCW and have much lower crime rates?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Howabout we support the police whose job it is to protect society, leave the military out of it and not allow concealed weapons on citizens who may not always have the public's best interest at heart when they unskin their hog.)</font>

I'm sorry but if I have to "unskin my hog" the publics best interest is at best a distant consideration. The only reason to pull your handgun is to defend your life or someone elses, and chances are the police that you want to rely on won't be anywhere near or arrive until long after the need for them has past. In case you aren't aware the police have NO DUTY AT ALL to protect any individual citizen. Your personal safety is up to you, not the police and I for one am not willing to give up my or my families safety so you feel more secure.
 
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