Diesel Gelling

gsxr1100 · Jan 28, 2005

( So while we are onthis subject. Has anyone seen an improvement in the performance from using PS in your tractor? )

I used it fro 1-season when I had my Powerstoke and noticed zero. The other 4 winters were fine. I also tried it on my BX the first year and again, noticed noting. Second year so far not using it with no problems. Never had any problem with my fuel. I personally do not think it is need in my area, MA. Save your money.

( I bought a bottle today at Wally Mart to give it a try. What have you guys got to say about performance and which one should you use at this time of year? Wally mart carries 3 varieties nowThey have the white bottle, grey bottle and a new improved grey bottle. The white raises the cetane lavel 4 notches. The grey raises it 6 notches. Opinions please? . )

White is the normal one for gelling
The have red for frozen/gelled fuel
Gray for raising cetane and cleaning I think.

JimR · Jan 28, 2005

Thanks Mike. I bought the Grey to try it out. I use another type of anti-gel since last weeks gell-up.

gsxr1100 · Jan 28, 2005

I think there is also Stanadyne. I buy my fuel from a big diesel stop (largest Mobil dealer in Western MA)and have no probems since 1996.

RalphVa · Jan 28, 2005

Gelling occurs in diesel by wax formation. In lubricating oil, it can occur either by wax formation or by low viscosity index or heavy oil not flowing at the temperature needed. You can get anti-gel either by dilution with stuff (like kerosene or gasoline) to cut viscosity or to keep the wax in solution.

Anti-gel stuff works by keeping the wax molecules straight rather than entwining and gelling. I only takes about 0.15%. This is 3781 x 0.0015 = 6 cc, which is 2 teaspoonfuls/gallon. Think this is about the dosage, maybe a bit more, for Power Service.

Otherwise, it takes 30-50% of kerosene dilution and about 10% of gasoline dilution to lower gelling point. However, DO NOT USE GASOLINE, a little bit of it will put the vapors in the tank in a very explosive region that isn't present due to 100% in the tank of your gasoline engined cars or tractors.

Ralph

cowboydoc · Jan 28, 2005

You will most certainly get improved performance from using Powerservice. It may not be seat of the pants that will notice. Bumping the cetane level alone 4 - 6 points will make alot of difference in performance. One of the reasons we always use p/s is because of this. Winter blend diesel with kerosene will drop your cetane level average of 5 or more points. This leads to less power and decreased fuel mileage. The higher your cetane # the more hp you are going to get and better mileage.

The standard white bottle with red and black writing is an all-around performance product. It is called Diesel Fuel Supplement plus Cetane boost. With this you get anti-gelling down to -40, cetane boost of 4 #'s, injector cleaners, lubricating properties, SlickDiesel, especially important for older diesels, contains anti-icing and anti-waxing properties for filters, has oxidative and degradation and heat and cold protection for the fuel, stabilizes fuel so that microbial contamination does not occur, and reduces soot and emissions.

Then there is diesel kleen. This is the gray bottle and has all the same properties of the above but does not contain anti-gelling properties and has cetane boost of 6 #'s instead of 4 #'s. The other properties are increased in proportion over the white bottle which has the anti-gel in it.

Then you have Arctic Express Anti-gel. This product is strictly an anti-gel formula. It is in a white bottle with blue lettering. You can get Premium Arctic Express Anti-gel and it does have cetane boost. It has gold and black labeling.

The all red bottle is Diesel 911. This is for vehicles that have already had the fuel gel or water in the fuel. It is used an anti-icer and also removes water in the system. It is also used for microbial cleanup and rust inhibition for systems that have gotten water in their fuel.

There are numerous other products but those are the four main ones that are used. There is also a whole line for agriculture.

gsxr1100 · Jan 28, 2005

Well unless I am wrong, I have seen zero, none, no improvements when I used it. All the diesels started as they were designed. Plus I have not used it for years without a problem. It was –13 F this morning and will get –18 F tonight. I will see how the BX starts without it nor a block heater. So far –10 F it started just fine without aid .

When I had my 7.3 Powerstroke it was advised (in the manual and by Ford) not to use any additives that had Water
Dispersants in them due to the fuel/water separator. So that is why I did not use them and the truck started fine and no gelling problems.

All I know is that if you use/buy a good fuel you will not need it. Plus I had to spend $2.35 per gallon for diesel then add PowesService at 96 oz for like $11? So far I save the money from not using Powerservice and buy more fuel.

When someone has some performance results in a tractor let me know. So far since 1996 it was a waste of money in my area; which is MA.

I guess if you really need it then buy it. But so far in my state of MA, it was not needed, for me. Maybe lucky etc,but 9 years without any gelling issues is a long time.

shoppintractors · Jan 28, 2005

A couple ounces of prevention is sure worth a pound of cure. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Don

cowboydoc · Jan 28, 2005

If you'd read the posts instead of always trying to be argumentative then you'd know that I said we use it so we don't have to buy winter diesel blend. Chances are if you buy winter blend fuel you'll be fine. But it only takes one time of being gelled on the side of the road and having to be towed to spend a couple cents to put it in a tank of fuel.

You're going to get poorer performance from winter blend fuel period. As the cetane #'s go down your fuel efficiency and your power go down. Using powerservice instead of winter blend fuel will increase your cetane level by 10 points. That's very significant.

If you're storing fuel for a period of time personally I think you're playing with fire if you don't add some kind of microbial agent and water dispersing agent to it. As far as Ford not recommending it that's because they recommend stanadyne. They also don't recommend synthetic oil but you think that's ok. They don't recommend extended drains either but you think that's ok. Speaking out of both sides of your mouth here aren't you?

For diesels that rely on the diesel fuel for lubrication some kind of lubricating additive is critical for low sulfur fuels.

If you're adding 96 ounces of powerservice to a fillup then you're not very smart. 96 ounces will treat 300 gallons. Powerservice here sells for $6.99. That equates to 2 cents per gallon to use powerservice. For 2 cents per gallon I'll take all the benefits of using it.

Someone like you that lives in town and only has a BX diesel to run and probably buys it in five gallon drums it probably isn't an absolute necessity. You are going to get the winter diesel only and won't have a choice to get pure diesel. You also have a newer diesel that isn't as dependent on the fuel lubrication. You will also probably never run your diesel long enough for soot or dirty injectors to be an issue. In your case no it's probably not worth it to you. In situations where guys use their tractor or vehicle more, have fuel delivered and it sits awhile, want to improve your cetane #'s, want the cleaning and oxidation properties, want the soot control, etc. then it's extremely beneficial. Your case it's not. Different situation different needs. It works for us and in your case it didn't work for you.

nobull1 · Jan 28, 2005

(

Ford not recommending it that's because they recommend stanadyne. )

Richard

It would appear that you have a good grasp on the diesel additives that work for you. So I am wondering if you won't/haven't used a de-emulsifier as opposed to a emulsifier. After reading your post it appears that PS is a emulsifier and I know Stanadyne isn't. General motors recommends that the water should be seperated from the fuel so the filter can pick it up as Stanadyne does. A lot of people think emulsifying is best due to no standing water and the particles are so small as to not hurt the lines or injectors. Myself I go with GM and use Stanadyne for all my equipment and check tanks for water with a flashlight, then remove if required. Also I might add there is a considerable difference in the sound of my Duramax without Stanadyne Performance formula. The Performance Formula has a cetene boost, lubricity additive, anti gel etc etc. Just wondering your opinion.

gsxr1100 · Jan 28, 2005

Oh Richard- Here we go with the attitude here. Why not think before you type a post. Now I will have to hit the wonferful mod button.

( If you'd read the posts instead of always trying to be argumentative then you'd know that I said we use it so we don't have to buy winter diesel blend. Chances are if you buy winter blend fuel you'll be fine. But it only takes one time of being gelled on the side of the road and having to be towed to spend a couple cents to put it in a tank of fuel. )

Chances are???? After 9+ years with no problems, I think chances are out. I had my truck for over 4 years and had zero gelling. Again, as I have posted before it was a waste, WASTE, for me in my area.

( If you're storing fuel for a period of time personally I think you're playing with fire if you don't add some kind of microbial agent and water dispersing agent to it. )

That is weird since I have only had diesel tractors like 6 years without a problem. I know many farmers up here that do nothing and fuel is fine….hmmm weird.

( As far as Ford not recommending it that's because they recommend stanadyne. They also don't recommend synthetic oil but you think that's ok. They don't recommend extended drains either but you think that's ok. Speaking out of both sides of your mouth here aren't you? )

Hmm, in the manual it states what I posted. They do recommend synthetic oil like anyother car maker. The problem with most makers is if you open the door to extended drains every moron out there will jump on board. As I have stated a long time ago, most users can’t even add oil to there car. Now you are going to tell them they can go longer, ya right. 80% of the public thinks the 3K drains is a must. Then the price is involved. Most will not pay the $$$ for the oil when the cheap dino stuff is 80% less.

( For diesels that rely on the diesel fuel for lubrication some kind of lubricating additive is critical for low sulfur fuels. )

the low sulfer fuels have been around for years cowboy. Nothing new here and the lube issue is getting about 10 years old….

( If you're adding 96 ounces of powerservice to a fillup then you're not very smart. 96 ounces will treat 300 gallons. Powerservice here sells for $6.99. That equates to 2 cents per gallon to use powerservice. For 2 cents per gallon I'll take all the benefits of using it. )

I never stated 96 oz at fill up. All I stated was ,” PowesService at 96 oz for like $11?” I did not say I added it all at one time. Never assume thing cowboy..bad bad

( Someone like you that lives in town and only has a BX diesel to run and probably buys it in five gallon drums it probably isn't an absolute necessity. You are going to get the winter diesel only and won't have a choice to get pure diesel. )

I live in a city. Not a town my friend. In this area after like October you can’t buy summer fuel..

( You also have a newer diesel that isn't as dependent on the fuel lubrication. )
Did not the low sulfer fuel come out like 10+ years ago….

( You will also probably never run your diesel long enough for soot or dirty injectors to be an issue. In your case no it's probably not worth it to you. )
Gee, what have I been stated..I said it was a waste…..

( In situations where guys use their tractor or vehicle more, have fuel delivered and it sits awhile, want to improve your cetane #'s, want the cleaning and oxidation properties, want the soot control, etc. then it's extremely beneficial. )

My bx sits a lot, but fuel is fine. My last tractor was also fine. Soot control is not important unless it is in your oil. At least I could carless about emissions on my BX or any truck. The state mandates the soot control on emission. If I do not need it. I do not bother.

( Your case it's not. Different situation different needs. It works for us and in your case it didn't work for you.)

See two answers back..nothing new .