DPF and Emission Controls vs Models

[rScotty]

I thought a government and/or a government leader telling everyone what to do, how to live and what to buy is precisely the definition of a dictatorship. Right?
So it's okay if its the government, but not okay if its the individual?

Plus, you already have rising pollution in many developing/developed nations that we cannot control. Or, do you wish the EPA had control over all 195 nations worldwide?

I'm okay with some commonsense regulation. But, we are way way beyond that at this point in the US.

Mike

I don't like regulations either. In the long run, I think the only thing that works is for people to change how they think and do things. That change comes from within.

Common sense regulation does work for one-on-one problems - and that makes it seem workable.

But it doesn't do so well when we are up against something where one entity can mess things up for a lot of people. I don't know the answer, but even I can see that something has has to change.
Maybe common sense isn't as common as we once hoped it was.
rScotty

 

[Bentrim]

Food for thought.
Can the EPA make laws?
They are not part of the cabinet but are advisor to the president. At least when I went to school we were told there were 3 branches of government. Executive implements and enforces law, Judicial who reviews laws to see if they are legal, legislative who makes the laws. Or has a fourth branch been created that can make and enforce laws ie EPA, OSHA, etc?

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is an independent executive agency of the United States federal government tasked with environmental protection matters.[2] President Richard Nixon proposed the establishment of EPA on July 9, 1970; it began operation on December 2, 1970, after Nixon signed an executive order.[3] The order establishing the EPA was ratified by committee hearings in the House and Senate.

The power of the Executive Branch is vested in the President of the United States, who also acts as head of state and Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. The President is responsible for implementing and enforcing the laws written by Congress and, to that end, appoints the heads of the federal agencies, including the Cabinet. The Vice President is also part of the Executive Branch, ready to assume the Presidency should the need arise.

The Cabinet and independent federal agencies are responsible for the day-to-day enforcement and administration of federal laws.

A dog has freedom until he runs out of leash. We had freedom until we were "regulated".

 

[dcarman]

Which Kubota models tractors have DPF filtering and which do not? Is there a list or simple tabular reference as to what models do and do not have DPF filtering -- both filtering and fluid requirements ?

I am hearing that 25.5HP is the threshold. What about BX2670 and 2670-1 for example that are so close to that threshold?

Is there a concise reference one could look at to determine which ones have these ? Does Tier IV and variations on the tier terminology tell you ?

AH but times they are a changing! Check out the new bobcat telehandlers such as the t619, 74 HP and no DEF . The engine meets Tier 4 regulations without a diesel particulate filter (DPF) or selective catalyst reduction. That should eliminate a lot of down time and hassles. That DEF has become a swear word for most diesel owners. It took the reliability out of diesels and created many downtime headaches. Hopefully the tech will move into all the diesel engine manufacturers.
Please lets not get into politics here or I'd have to call DEF a plot from them other guys!

 

[5030]

Don't come to my barn then. Every time I fire up my old iron my eyes water with tears of joy....but you might think they are watering from all the fumes, LOL

If it don't smoke, it's broke.

Diesel exhaust is Hillbilly Incense....

 

[rScotty]

AH but times they are a changing! Check out the new bobcat telehandlers such as the t619, 74 HP and no DEF . The engine meets Tier 4 regulations without a diesel particulate filter (DPF) or selective catalyst reduction. That should eliminate a lot of down time and hassles. That DEF has become a swear word for most diesel owners. It took the reliability out of diesels and created many downtime headaches. Hopefully the tech will move into all the diesel engine manufacturers.
Please lets not get into politics here or I'd have to call DEF a plot from them other guys!

It will be nice when all the new diesels meet Tier 4 without DPF or DEF at all.

As for DEF being a swear word for most diesel owners I wonder if you meant to write DPF and regen instead of DEF? I hear swearing on TBN at DPF and regen, but not at DEF.
We have that sprinter diesel engine on our RV. It has DEF and no issue for 7 years now. That's common with this same sprinter diesel engine that half the utility vans and many RVs use. No diesel fumes at all.The exhaust pipe still looks new. I don't follow the other makes, maybe the reliability depends on the manufacturer.

 

[milkman636]

I grew up watching morning smog rising over metro Detroit from across the lake. Factory jobs were everywhere around the area during that time. Then NAFTA and favored trade with China came in and manufacturing fled across our borders. Trade policy should get more credit for cleaning things up than the EPA in my opinion. The downside is now an average kid is funnelled into huge debt in hopes of getting wages equivalent to he could find in the same area when we made stuff.

 

[JWR]

EPA operates on laws established by Congress. The EPA is of course part of the executive branch, but like all executive branch agencies, the laws established by Congress have more effect on policies than the occupant of the White House. Some members of Congress like to claim otherwise, but that’s simply politics. Regulation rule making can only be stretched to the extent that congressional acts provide for. People who disagree with federal agency policies need to be contacting their congressional representatives and senators.

Technically true but not the way things really work. First of all, having ANY effect on what the EPA does or does not do via contacting our elected reps is similar to peeing in the ocean to raise the water levels. Sure if it gets TOO serious and TOO close home we can go into panic mode and climb on the elected reps the best we can. Rarely do individuals have any effect unless they are HIGHLY connected. You have farmers in Appalachia literally afraid to dredge some gravel out of a creek bed to patch a farm road with the spot in question over half a mile from the nearest border of (and inside) the farm. Utterly absurd and out of control that ANY agency has honest hard working people living in fear of their own government !!! Massive examples of far worse EPA overreach are numerous and in every state in the union. Without a dissertation on those (we can all look them up) the worst habit of the EPA's behavior history is that they invent jurisdiction and assume authority every time they get a chance unless specifically prohibited by law -- not the other way around. Like 98% of the grief in this country it is driven by a tiny % of PITA activists, not by the "silent majority." Hard to exaggerate the stupidity if you are in farming, agriculture or small business.
END of SOAPBOX. I'll be quiet.

 

[Rdrcr]

Diesel exhaust is Hillbilly Incense....

Mike

 

[jyoutz]

Technically true but not the way things really work. First of all, having ANY effect on what the EPA does or does not do via contacting our elected reps is similar to peeing in the ocean to raise the water levels. Sure if it gets TOO serious and TOO close home we can go into panic mode and climb on the elected reps the best we can. Rarely do individuals have any effect unless they are HIGHLY connected. You have farmers in Appalachia literally afraid to dredge some gravel out of a creek bed to patch a farm road with the spot in question over half a mile from the nearest border of (and inside) the farm. Utterly absurd and out of control that ANY agency has honest hard working people living in fear of their own government !!! Massive examples of far worse EPA overreach are numerous and in every state in the union. Without a dissertation on those (we can all look them up) the worst habit of the EPA's behavior history is that they invent jurisdiction and assume authority every time they get a chance unless specifically prohibited by law -- not the other way around. Like 98% of the grief in this country it is driven by a tiny % of PITA activists, not by the "silent majority." Hard to exaggerate the stupidity if you are in farming, agriculture or small business.
END of SOAPBOX. I'll be quiet.

I agree with your statements, but still remind you that Congress makes the laws that provide the sideboards for agency regulations. I work in forestry and we have to get the water quality permits for forest road work and bridges so I understand. But EPA has delegated the clean air and water acts enforcement to each state, so permitting and enforcement are handled by state agencies, so I have no doubt that each state has slightly different interpretations.

 

[Sid Post]

For DPF-related concerns with larger engines, I'll throw out the Massey Ferguson 4707 with its 70HP engine. This tractor doesn't use DPF and is a common rail and DOC (catalyst) tractor.

The larger tractors in this same class from Massey do you use DPF. There are kits out of Brazil that will let you take a 4707 and raise the motor Hp to 110HP or points in between to avoid DPF with the more powerful engines, though this will violate the warranty and TIER 4 requirement.