DS4110 vs DK40SE

[blucoondawg]

I've narrowed my search down to these 2 models in a gear tranny, I just don't see the sense in going with the smaller CK35 size when for a little more money I can get so much more tractor/loader. My question is what are your opinions on these 2 models, I have seen a lot of recommendation to the DK on here but I haven't read much on the DS series. I am not a farmer so I won't be doing a ton of 3 point work, tilling and maybe a post hole digger would be about it, I see the differences seem to be the DS doesn't have the telescoping 3pt, doesn't have the fender mount loader control, and has a constant mesh 8 spd tranny rather than the synchro 12 sp of the DK. I will be doing mostly loader/backhoe, tilling, post hole drill and drawbar type pulling/skidding out trees, not alot of 3pt work other than that, what are the big differences between the 2 trannys? What do you think of the DS 4110?

 

[IndyIan]

Go try a DS4110 and pretend to do some loader work in the dealers parking lot. I did and didn't really like it much. Also if you are tilling, confirm you ca go slow enough on the DS. They have a creeper option I believe. I thought the DK with hst was worth the price difference and for tricky loader work the hst is very very nice!

 

[blucoondawg]

I didn't think about the minimum speed aspect of it, online specs show the DS at a min speed of 1.09 mph and the DK at .9 mph so the DK gear is able to go slower, though the hydro could creep along even slower. I just was looking at gear to save money, also I was told you lose power with the hydro and gear is more reliable and hydros are expensive to repair if something breaks down, I do not have any experience with owning hydro equipment so I don't know how true any of this is.

 

[VictorW]

I read your previous post and you seem against the hydro which is fine. Yes, it costs more to buy and repair if that would occur. You also lose pto and possibly some pulling power. A gear pulls until the engine stalls where the hydro can, at times, slip a little. The hydro likes the engine running at a minimum of 2000rpm to do serious work. The hydro has a dedicated oil filter just for itself and they are @$85 which replacement occurs every 200 hours in addition to the standard hydraulic oil filter that handles the rest of the hydraulic oil flow for 3pt, loader, etc. The hydro is a little easier for loader work but you say you are used to a clutch and would rather go gear. The DS is a good tractor without some of the goodies of the DK as you have noticed. But by your numbers, I'd spend the extra $900 and get the DK that has the synchro tranny and four more speeds. Nicer for loader work and I'm sure you can find a gear that would do whatever job you have. The telescoping 3pt arms are nice once you start using them. I would also think that for the $900 extra up front, you would have a better resale years down the line because of the differences between the DK and DS. I have the CK30hst hydro but use the loader a good bit and my wife doesn't like a clutch so my selection was limited.

 

[dennis52]

Have had my DS4510 for about 14months and 300 hours, worked it very hard on a whole range of jobs and am very happy with it's performance.

I prefer a gear tractor for my needs and do not do a lot of work in confined spaces. Would however recommend the hydraulic shuttle shift.

If you need HST and are happy to pay for it then I am sure you will also be very happy. You will also get a few creature comforts thrown in.

If the gear model DK is only $900 more than the DS them that is probably also worth considering.

Pricing structures, options and models vary in Australia to USA

Whatever, you will get good value for your dollar buying Kioti.

 

[blucoondawg]

I am not completely against a hydro I just don't think it's so much something I need for the extra cost, and I don't want to lose pulling power, I am not concerned about trade in value, this is sort of a once in a lifetime purchase for me, tractors last a long time if taken care of an I am not a farmer who is going to put mega hours on it so I plan to have it forever, that is why I decided to look to the bigger tractor in the 40hp rather than the ck35 or 30 which I was looking at, I figured I would end up wanting to go bigger eventually anyways and the cost difference isn't tremendous to go bigger. How does the forward/reverse shifter work on the DS series? Is it something that you have to clutch and come to a complete stop before changing direction like with the gears or can it be done rolling? I agree also that the 900 more is probably worth it to get the nicer features of the DK, I may drive down tomorrow and have a look at the DS, they don't have a DK on the lot so maybe I'll check out the DK35 they have just to compare the ergonomics

 

[dennis52]

I am not completely against a hydro I just don't think it's so much something I need for the extra cost, and I don't want to lose pulling power, I am not concerned about trade in value, this is sort of a once in a lifetime purchase for me, tractors last a long time if taken care of an I am not a farmer who is going to put mega hours on it so I plan to have it forever, that is why I decided to look to the bigger tractor in the 40hp rather than the ck35 or 30 which I was looking at, I figured I would end up wanting to go bigger eventually anyways and the cost difference isn't tremendous to go bigger. How does the forward/reverse shifter work on the DS series? Is it something that you have to clutch and come to a complete stop before changing direction like with the gears or can it be done rolling? I agree also that the 900 more is probably worth it to get the nicer features of the DK, I may drive down tomorrow and have a look at the DS, they don't have a DK on the lot so maybe I'll check out the DK35 they have just to compare the ergonomics

With the hydraulic shuttle shift you do not have to use the foot clutch to change between forward and reverse, with the manual shuttle you do.
You don't have to come to a complete halt but a slow roll to take the load off the clutch.
You do use the foot clutch to change up and down gears and the tractor has to stop to do this. With the DK 40 synchromesh gearbox this may not be the case (but worth double checking that it applies to all gears and the 3 ranges)

However I mostly do not have to change up or down as I only use low range anyway and even top gear in the low range will easily power you quickly up steep hills without hesitation. Once in a forward gear I just stay in it most of the time.

Also compare the toolboxes behind the seat !

 

[blucoondawg]

Do you know does the DK also have the hydraulic shuttle? I would much prefer that the having to clutch to change direction every time, that type of shuttle is what I'm used to on our tractor backhoes at work, no clutch just flip the lever and back up, as far as I'm concerned if you are used to using it it's just as good for loader work as hydro. Having to clutch every time would be a pain.

 

[dennis52]

Do you know does the DK also have the hydraulic shuttle? I would much prefer that the having to clutch to change direction every time, that type of shuttle is what I'm used to on our tractor backhoes at work, no clutch just flip the lever and back up, as far as I'm concerned if you are used to using it it's just as good for loader work as hydro. Having to clutch every time would be a pain.

Not sure whether DK comes with a regular shuttle or a hydraulic shuttle

 

[DK35vince]

The DK has a syncronized shuttle and main transmission. You can foward/reverse whithout coming to a complete stop and you can shift through the gears on the go.
But you do need to use the cluch to shift.
Not sure how the DS works but according to the website there are 2 versions of the 4110. The DS4110 non sycronized with dry clutch and the DS 4110hs with sycronized hydraulic clutch.
Personally for $900 more I would go with the DK. It has a lot more nice standand features.
Rear remotes, extendable lower link arms, suspension seat, skid steer style QA, Etc.

 

[blucoondawg]

The DK has a syncronized shuttle and main transmission. You can foward/reverse whithout coming to a complete stop and you can shift through the gears on the go.
But you do need to use the cluch to shift.
Not sure how the DS works but according to the website there are 2 versions of the 4110. The DS4110 non sycronized with dry clutch and the DS 4110hs with sycronized hydraulic clutch.
Personally for $900 more I would go with the DK. It has a lot more nice standand features.
Rear remotes, extendable lower link arms, suspension seat, skid steer style QA, Etc.

That's what I am thinking on the DK as well, I don't mind the clutch to change gears but I would rather not need it to change forward/reverse. I see you have a Rhino backhoe, how do you like it? Any problems with it? Does it have replaceable bushings on all the pins?

 

[DK35vince]

I see you have a Rhino backhoe, how do you like it? Any problems with it? Does it have replaceable bushings on all the pins?

By looking at my backhoes parts manual it shows bushing listed in most of the wear areas of the hoe.
I like my Rhino backhoe. Seems to have good power and the controls work nice.
The only issue I ever had was a few of the subframe bolts would work loose and need retightning all the time. I welded the subframe in that area and never had any more problem.

 

[blucoondawg]

Well I went down and looked over the tractors today, it didn't take me long to decide the DS line wasn't for me, they had 4 of them on the lot and the fit and finish on them was horrible. I was surprised they let them out of the factory like that, the front of the tractor looked ok but the fenders looked like they had been through a roll over accident and hammered back straight as possible, then had a poor bondo job done and repainted, they were all wavy like restraightened metal and one was rusting rather badly through the seams of the fender. Also by the time I add rear remotes the price would be so close I may as well go with the nicer model to begin with. Also I am probably going with a DK50SE hydro, I drove it and the tranny was much smoother than many hydros I have driven and it didn't have the whine noise or the jerkyness some have when letting off the pedal, they have one on the lot and the price is within 500 dollars of the 40 and 130 dollars of the 45 so may as well go with the big one for the cost and never worry about trading up :thumbsup:

 

[k0ua]

Well I went down and looked over the tractors today, it didn't take me long to decide the DS line wasn't for me, they had 4 of them on the lot and the fit and finish on them was horrible. I was surprised they let them out of the factory like that, the front of the tractor looked ok but the fenders looked like they had been through a roll over accident and hammered back straight as possible, then had a poor bondo job done and repainted, they were all wavy like restraightened metal and one was rusting rather badly through the seams of the fender. Also by the time I add rear remotes the price would be so close I may as well go with the nicer model to begin with. Also I am probably going with a DK50SE hydro, I drove it and the tranny was much smoother than many hydros I have driven and it didn't have the whine noise or the jerkyness some have when letting off the pedal, they have one on the lot and the price is within 500 dollars of the 40 and 130 dollars of the 45 so may as well go with the big one for the cost and never worry about trading up :thumbsup:

I think you will be very pleased with that purchase. Yes the DK hydro is noticably less whiney that others. And the pedal damper is very smooth also. My DK35se only whines a little bit in HI and pulling a hill, otherwise none.

James K0UA

 

[MotorSeven]

BCD, I've said it before, and it's only my "opinion", but I will never ever go back to gear. I really like my Hydro, it does everything I ask and then some. I do a lot of loader/fork/bucket/hay spear work and the hydro is so smooth it makes these tasks a pleasure. None of the herky jerkyness of a gear or shuttle(no, a shuttle is not near as smooth as a Hydro). I'm glad you went and tried them out.....there is a huge difference in their "personalities".

 

[blucoondawg]

I am still harboring a little fear of what it will cost if that Hydro tranny craps out on me, but I suppose it isn't cheap to fix a tranny no matter what type you have.

 

[k0ua]

There are a lot more busted clutches than there are busted hydro's on this forum. Now you did say earlier that you know how to properly drive a clutch equipped rig, but some people do not. Hydro's are very reliable. and have been around a long time. Gear rigs are very reliable also, and clutches can last a long time if not abused.

James K0UA

 

[blucoondawg]

Yes the clutch is the weak link of the gear tranny, and if my wife decides shes gonna be using the tractor, who knows how long the clutch would last, with the hydro she can jump on and take off without me worrying if she's slippin on the clutch or riding it or whatever else people who aren't familiar with them can do. Going to the bigger HP I don't so much care about power loss. It would be a pain having to clutch every time you change direction.

 

[MotorSeven]

Your right, any major repair of a tranny is going to be expensive. For me it's worth the extra money up front, and worth what ever it might cost to repair down the road.

 

[VictorW]

For the extra money you mentioned, it should make everyone happy. You'll have all the power you need, rear remotes, some other operator comforts, and the hydro really is nice to use, especially for loader work. Normally going up to a hydro in the same model is @$1000 but you're going up in power too for only $500. That's a deal not to pass up and the hydro will be forgiving on an operator who isn't good with a clutch. Your wife, probably like mine, will enjoy the hydro and you might have to schedule seat time.