Ejector Bucket Design

[RedDirt]

I guess I AM compulsive. Now its way past my bedtime but I couldn't let this subject die without some workable conclusion. I think the following would work. I don't know if I will build it or just do as stated above.

I went back to my original design. But instead of the ejector flap being stationary I made it pivot this time and devised a catch and release lever. This is pretty straightforward and I like it for simplicity.


Bucket in dig attitude




Detail of catch & release latch. Flap and release catch are spring tensioned. The flap rests against the back of the bucket. If there is a recalcitrant load in the buck do a full curl to capture the ejector flap. The flap is retained in this position while the bucket is opened and the material is dumped. This occurs just before full open bucket. Then proceed to full open bucket, the release latch is activated and the flap spring returns to rest against the bucket back.




Ejector flap engaging catch




Open bucket and dump




Open bucket fully to activate flap release




Flap spring returning to rest position




So there we go. A fairly simple design that should work without too much fussing. This bucket is a custom design that is almost true radius except for a straight section the last 30 degrees or so to help out the angle of attack when digging. Maybe the design principle is adaptable to existing buckets, I'm not sure.

It is doubtful I'll build this bucket but if anyone does please post your construction and digging results so we can see.

 

[Renze]

I guess I AM compulsive. Now its way past my bedtime but I couldn't let this subject die without some workable conclusion.

I know what you mean... last week i was having an MSN conversation with a friend from Finland: He said that after WW2 they had to have a governmental permit to buy cars, tractors, from abroad: This was to regulate the amount of Finnish valuta on the monetary market, to prevent their economy from extreme monetary inflation because Finland had nothing and had to buy everything from abroad. Also, they were forced to pay war damage to Russia, because they got help from **** Germany to fight against the Russians, who occupied parts of their country in 1939, without any declaration of war, while the rest of the world said nothing because they wanted Russia to join over to the Allied side.

Anyways, the Finnish winter war catched my attention, and i studied this grey area of European history for the rest of the week, with great interest

 

[3RRL]

Hey Ray,
I know what you mean and I love your tenacity! I sure do admire that.
You are coming up with some very clever ideas and I'm sure they will lead to the final solution. Hang in there and make something that you never have to get off the tractor to clean out that bucket. That is your goal, right?
Yeah, it may take some brain effort and machining, but it will sure be worth it in the long run.

 

[PILOON]

My 2 cents (3 with inflation)!

I like the 'KISS' approach,

How about a second bucket bottom that is hinged at the back and a 'loose fit' so to speak.

At or near the front is a strong 'attach point' to which a cable or chain is attached.

The other end of the chain/cable is attached to the stick at 'just the right point' so that the clay mass is pulled away from the bucket prior to the bucket being fully opened.
If a bucket curles 180 deg then the false bottem would be tethered to stop at say 150 degrees at which point he clay mass would no longer be sticking to the bucket sides and simply drop by gravity.

Now this would work because the cable or chain 'tether' would basically slice or cut through the clay when scooping a bucketfull of clay.

This method would only be valid if there is not other materials inbedded in the clay such as roots, logs and rocks.

While a cable might be best, a chain would be more easily adjustable for optimum performance.

Think in terms of cutting cheese with piano wire!

Good luck!

 

[RedDirt]

My 2 cents (3 with inflation)!

How about a second bucket bottom that is hinged at the back and a 'loose fit' so to speak.

At or near the front is a strong 'attach point' to which a cable or chain is attached.

Good luck!

Thanks PILOON

Renze and pycoed, also brought up the chain idea, with or without a hinged back plate, and the concept is worthy of some more investigation. The chain may be less problematic than my catch & spring return design. But another problem could arise. If you were digging with less than a fully opened bucket the chain would be somewhat slack and maybe it would snarl on the bucket teeth of bucket edge.

I still don't know if I am going to build a "standard" narrow bucket and "take my chances" I won't have a clogging problem with my soil, or build some other design.

For utter simplicity I like the "banana bucket" presented earlier but I don't think my soil is THAT heavy, cohesive, and sticky. A lot of bucket volume would be lost with a banana bucket in the areas of looser soil. I am considering a banana bucket with (easily) removable sides.

At any rate I just picked up a load of new & used steel for a half a dozen projects that are ahead of the bucket on the to-do list. Now that our power is restored after four days I am anxious to begin them. I left the bucket material off the purchase. I'll revisit the ejector bucket later if I can get these other things out of the way before spring.

Projects:
Rear Blade accessories: gauge wheels, side plates, ripper bar
Root ripper tooth for BH
FEL forks & FEL chain hooks
Ballast Box
TPH adapter for trailer hitch and to hook-up my non-TPH plow & disk

 

[Renze]

For utter simplicity I like the "banana bucket" presented earlier but I don't think my soil is THAT heavy, cohesive, and sticky. A lot of bucket volume would be lost with a banana bucket in the areas of looser soil. I am considering a banana bucket with (easily) removable sides.

When trenching for glassfiber networks, we only used banana buckets. They work fine in just about any soil, as long as you use it for trenches just a bucket wide, because the soil wont boil around it in the trench. When the bucket is full, the soil is mostly compacted enough to stay together in the bucket when you lift it out of the trench.

 

[RedDirt]

When trenching for glassfiber networks, we only used banana buckets. They work fine in just about any soil, as long as you use it for trenches just a bucket wide, because the soil wont boil around it in the trench. When the bucket is full, the soil is mostly compacted enough to stay together in the bucket when you lift it out of the trench.

That makes sense but what about when the bucket is clear of the trench (above it) and you are swinging the boom sideways to dump? Will looser dirt still stay in the bucket or will it fall out the sides? EG. my clay is a foot or so down below topsoil so the first couple buckets will be relatively loose soil. I guess one could get the loose soil out best as possible then shove it sideways (away from the trench) with the boom swing. But with the banana bucket there is not much side surface area so it could be like eating soup with a fork.

Also, as I contemplate building a trenching bucket I've been thinking of the many roots I have. On another post I saw a root ripper tooth that had the leading edge sharpened and had a few 1/2 round holes in the sharpened edge. Kinda like a serrated edge. I'm thinking of doing this with the sides of a bucket to aid in cutting the smaller roots. Has anyone run a sharpened or serrated ripper tooth? Does it work cutting roots?

 

[Renze]

http://www.boomstronkwortelmes.nl/mes/maten.html

A guy in Holland imports these tree root saws for use on an excavator... the principle does work, but i think you wont keep soil on your bucket while sawing.

 

[SLOBuds]

It's hard to imagine that 'one size fits all' on this.

Just that I've had the unfortunate opportunity of digging through clay by hand. Sometimes the clay is loose enough, or loamy enough, so that it will fall off of the shovel happily. Sometimes the clay sticks on the shovel no matter WHAT I would do to try to shake/kick/shove/bang it off.

In this second case, it will sometimes be so bad that if I try to scrape it off with another implement, the other implement will just get the clay stuck onto it. Some times if I try to spray it off with a hose, the water stream goes just so far to get the dirt off. Then I could spray it as long as I want, and it won't come off. Sometimes then I have to get a scrubber and scrub with water flowing ... etc etc etc, you get the picture.

So. It looks like you are designing a flap that attempts to shove out the clump of clay. Well, that flap might shove out the clump. Or the flap might push against the clay and then have that clay stuck to *it*!

Or ... if the clay is mushy enough, the clay might simply moosh through the clay and clay-stuff sloshing by the sides.

What I'm thinking is that your nifty gadget will end up able to clear out the bucket for some material, but not for all material.

This is a great project!

 

[RedDirt]

It's hard to imagine that 'one size fits all' on this.

Just that I've had the unfortunate opportunity of digging through clay by hand. Sometimes the clay is loose enough, or loamy enough, so that it will fall off of the shovel happily. Sometimes the clay sticks on the shovel no matter WHAT I would do to try to shake/kick/shove/bang it off.

In this second case, it will sometimes be so bad that if I try to scrape it off with another implement, the other implement will just get the clay stuck onto it. Some times if I try to spray it off with a hose, the water stream goes just so far to get the dirt off. Then I could spray it as long as I want, and it won't come off. Sometimes then I have to get a scrubber and scrub with water flowing ... etc etc etc, you get the picture.

So. It looks like you are designing a flap that attempts to shove out the clump of clay. Well, that flap might shove out the clump. Or the flap might push against the clay and then have that clay stuck to *it*!

Or ... if the clay is mushy enough, the clay might simply moosh through the clay and clay-stuff sloshing by the sides.

What I'm thinking is that your nifty gadget will end up able to clear out the bucket for some material, but not for all material.

This is a great project!

No, this won't be a one-size-fits-all bucket. Each hoe would need modifications of the bucket to fit their own geometry AND SOIL CHARACTERISTICS..

I know what you mean about the varied consistencies of clay. Worst I've seen was the Oregon Rogue River Basin. It is volcanic based: talcum powder if disturbed in the summer, cement if not disturbed in the summer, and the slimiest, stickiest stuff I've ever seen when saturated in the winter. I'm sure an ejector bucket would not be the answer for that.

Each person would have to make a judgment call as to whether and ejector or banana type bucket would be best for their dirt. As you say, with the sticky stuff the clay is just going to stick to the ejector as well as the bucket.

If I don't dig in early spring a banana bucket may be the best for my soil. I'm going to do some experimenting this coming spring with my 12in bucket and see if I can determine where the problems might be with the narrower bucket, then make a decision of which to try.

 

[Renze]

I just remembered something:

At a trade fair last year, a manufacturer showed a plastic bed liner sheet. They showed a video of off-highway dumptrucks that used it against frost sticking of dirt to the dump bowl, in open pit mining in russia.
That might be cheapest and easiest.. ??

 

[1957MM445OttawaBackhoe]

My 1957 Industrial Minneapolis Moline 445 tractor has a Ottawa Backhoe that was designed and patented with an ejector plate built into the bucket. It is a really good design. If you go to the US Patent Office website, just do a quick search for patent number 2,764,306. It is a really unique design. The plate never gets in the way whatsoever. It only actuates when you fully extend the bucket. This is a very rare backhoe. Even though it is 50 years old, it is conceptually way ahead of its time. Now if I could only find a operator and service manual for it.

 

[RedDirt]

Well that's neat. I've never been to the patent office web. Unfortunately neither firefox or explorer gave me full results and I treid on two computers with different results on each.

Here is a jpeg of drawing one, the only one I could get from a possible eight. The specifications page was also cut short with the all important explanation of the ejector function.

View attachment patent drawing-crop.bmp

If anyone else has better results from the patent search could you please post more info on this design. Figure three, the side cut-away view of the ejector would be helpful as well as the items #50+ in the specs covering the ejector principle and operation

 

[1957MM445OttawaBackhoe]

RedDirt,

I had to download their TIFF file program so that I could see anything at all when I first went into the site. After I downloaded their TIFF file program, I was able to see all of the patent information and pics. I initially could not figure out how to see all of the pictures, but I eventually figured it out. What you have to do is click on the arrows on the left side of the screen. That will scroll you through all of the pics. I can take some pictures of my backhoe this weekend and post them up here for you to see. I am new to this site, so I will have to figure out how to put the pictures up here. The side shots at the patent office of the bucket cam design are like rough drafts of the concept. The cam design on the actual backhoe bucket is different. So I will try to get you some shots of the real backhoe for you.

 

[1957MM445OttawaBackhoe]

RedDirt,

Now that I think about it, I will take some video of the backhoe in action. I will put it on YouTube. When I have it on YouTube, I will post the link here. If I can't get a link to post here, I will let you know what the title of the video is so you can search for it on YouTube. It is such an old backhoe, I need to video tape it in action while it still is operational. I'll get some detailed pics of the bucket functioning the ejector plate.

 

[RedDirt]

Ottawa, That's great! Looking forward to the video. Thanks for the efforts on your part. As seen from the number of views of this post there is more than a little interest in finding a bucket design that does not clog in clay.

As far as posting pictures here it is easy. Use the paper clip icon "attachment". In the attachments window browse to your photo(s) then click upload. When done uploading close the window. In your reply put the cursor where you want the photo then use the drop down box next to the paper clip to choose & insert your photo. Just remember to resize your photos first fairly small before uploading. Lots of folk here still run on dial-up and big photos are a deal breaker for some.

For those who are following this old post I did in fact build the banana bucket and it has worked fine for me. I built a 7" wide model as close as I could copy from photos earlier in this post. Maybe a "banana bucket" search will turn up the several posts where I have discussed it elsewhere.

 

[mwb]

I just searched for that patent number and found a site that allowed a PDF to be downloaded. Here it is for those who are interested.
View attachment US2764306.pdf

 

[RedDirt]

Thanks mwb,drawings 2 and 3 really help fill in the picture.

 

[1957MM445OttawaBackhoe]

RedDirt,

Thanks for the pic instructions. I made a video this last weekend. But, I have to get a cord that will let me download from my movie camera to my PC. I will get that this coming Friday. In the meantime, I have taken some pictures that will let you see the bucket design. I will get the video up this weekend.

Thanks for the Ottawa handle RedDirt!

Ottawa out!

 

[Kernopelli]

That is a neat old hoe, everything about it is unique. The ejector bucket, boom linkage/ hydraulics and the outrigger design. Very innovative, especially considering the era.......that's a keeper!