Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

[zzvyb6]

So, can you stash a Honda EU3000IS in the trunk of a Bolt and run in that mode (just to limp home )? Call it a Holt or Holster.

 

[houstonscott]

The most inefficient thing you could drive is an electric car. But if that's what you like have at it.

 

[buickanddeere]

There is always wind blowing somewhere. It is matter of scale over large area. The bottleneck is energy transmission over long distances.

Cost of 20,000Mw transmission lines with the line losses from transmitting power over 1000 miles negates any economic advantages.

 

[Redneck in training]

Cost of 20,000Mw transmission lines with the line losses from transmitting power over 1000 miles negates any economic advantages.

There DC lines in operation in various countries, US included, some over 2000 miles long. DC doesn't suffer "skin effect", capacitive and inductive losses, leakage losses are also lower due to lower voltage. The line itself is cheaper because it has only two conductors but the conversion from DC to AC for local distribution makes it expensive. Old lines used DC motor running AC generator on the destination end. Modern systems can be bidirectiona with solid state converters.

 

[Redneck in training]

The most inefficient thing you could drive is an electric car. But if that's what you like have at it.

Well that BS. ICE uses about 5% of the energy contained in the fuel when still underground. Electric car about 20 to 25. In other words electric is about four to five times more efficient. Hydrocarbons are very useful to make "stuff". Burning them as fuel is (as Elon Musk says) like burning furniture to heat your house. Electric cars are more fun to drive than ICE cars. You want to drag race with your Bimmer. You will lose.

 

[Redneck in training]

I can understand somebody having an electric as a second vehicle for urban use. A Bolt would be ideal for my wife and I to run to the grocery or hardware store which are less than five miles away. It could also be used to visit ONE child and return home. But stretch that trip to visit the second daughter, or just about any other added side trip, and we would be sweating by the time we got home. Then as soon as it is plugged in we get a call that a parent is sick and we must immediately pick them up and drive thirty miles to a hospital. We would be sitting on the side of the road wondering how we are going to charge it up and make it home.

Gas, or diesel, has the advantage of running continuously for days with only short stops for refueling. Electric, at this time, has major downtime to refuel. That factor makes electric cars unusable as the main driver for most families.

Factor in that once government subsidies is pulled the cost goes up greatly.

So as an around town urban runabout they would be great especially if in the form of a small SUV. As the main driver for a typical on the go family and they would be just short of totally impractical.

I would love to have one as a third vehicle for short trips. But I will not give up my large SUV or pickup truck for one.

Just my opinion.

RSKY

If your wife runs to a grocery store you could get by with way cheaper electric car than Bolt. In example Nissan Leaf. You can buy used one for about 10K or less. My guess is Bolt makes the best bang for a buck if you drive regularly 150-180 miles daily round trip.

 

[California]

There are DC lines in operation in various countries, US included, some over 2000 miles long....

I recalled something I read about modern long distance transmission in China and Googled to look it up: Economist

The future is here. China's need for energy growth is more acute so they are doing the most development presently.

 

[houstonscott]

Well that BS. ICE uses about 5% of the energy contained in the fuel when still underground. Electric car about 20 to 25. In other words electric is about four to five times more efficient. Hydrocarbons are very useful to make "stuff". Burning them as fuel is (as Elon Musk says) like burning furniture to heat your house. Electric cars are more fun to drive than ICE cars. You want to drag race with your Bimmer. You will lose.

Burning fuel somewhere and converting a number of times, transporting it, and putting in and out of a battery will never be as efficient as burning it directly. The only reason for electric is to remove emissions from where the vehicle is operating.

 

[Redneck in training]

Burning fuel somewhere and converting a number of times, transporting it, and putting in and out of a battery will never be as efficient as burning it directly. The only reason for electric is to remove emissions from where the vehicle is operating.

80 % of energy in fuel is used just to get it to you. Then ICE uses about 20% of what is left to make power to turn wheels of your car. Electric car uses more 90% of what is left in the fuel. That is why electric cars are 4 to 5 times more efficient.

 

[houstonscott]

80 % of energy in fuel is used just to get it to you. Then ICE uses about 20% of what is left to make power to turn wheels of your car. Electric car uses more 90% of what is left in the fuel. That is why electric cars are 4 to 5 times more efficient.

So you throw out 80% then make your argument. Lol. Listen, empty your electric car, then use a generator to charge it, measure how many gallons you use to charge it, then drive to empty the battery, and see your milage, electric cars get about 1mpg.

 

[buickanddeere]

There DC lines in operation in various countries, US included, some over 2000 miles long. DC doesn't suffer "skin effect", capacitive and inductive losses, leakage losses are also lower due to lower voltage. The line itself is cheaper because it has only two conductors but the conversion from DC to AC for local distribution makes it expensive. Old lines used DC motor running AC generator on the destination end. Modern systems can be bidirectiona with solid state converters.

Still the line losses even with DC and the expense of construction. The capital cost is there if the lines are flowing current or not. That is one of the problems with wind turbines and solar that they have a capacity factor or less than 30%.
There just is not wind sites in the US or Canada to carry the countries electrical demand day and night . The numbers have been run by accountants and engineers. Warm fuzzy feelings for a brave new world with no environmental foot print does not overcome the laws of physics and the earth's orbit.
I suppose the answer to your problems would be an Agenda 21 type of solution. The world's problems would go away if the world's human population was cut to 1% of current levels.

 

[buickanddeere]

80 % of energy in fuel is used just to get it to you. Then ICE uses about 20% of what is left to make power to turn wheels of your car. Electric car uses more 90% of what is left in the fuel. That is why electric cars are 4 to 5 times more efficient.

The energy pipeline for hydrocarbon fuel is much more efficient that 80% of energy used. 80% is a number thrown around by green weenies at protest rallies .
Anyone who has a problem with petroleum only has to quit using anything and everything that has been directly or indirectly involved with petroleum. oh..........now what, the yes buts start,

 

[buickanddeere]

Those are for carrying power from distant hydro electric and coal generating stations. It's cheaper to more electricity on DC lines than it is to move coal. It also keeps the coal pollution hundreds or thousands of miles away from large coastal urban centres.

 

[buickanddeere]

I have always wondered how electrical engineers, chemists and accountants etc who are experts in their fields know what works and what doesn't to generate and transmit reliable electricity. How is it these social justice warriors, protesting college students, housewives , liberal arts types and others whose expertise is outside the electrical industry. Just exactly do all these know nothings have all the answers and the experts don't .
How would you famers like to have drama teachers, artists, musicians, physicians, medical professionals, lawyers all set policy and tell you how to farm ?

 

[houstonscott]

Battery operated cars remain, coal or more and more a NG powered car, in reality. That's fine, but efficient when comparing against gas directly, no. I understand California's need to do something, they have 6 of the top 10 most polluted cities in the country.

California again leads list with 6 of the top 1 most polluted U.S. cities

 

[3930dave]

Check out used Volts and Leafs. You can get screaming deals on low mileage used ones.

People seem to like EVs, once they try them.... as with hybrids, many consumers today don't want to deal with battery-pack replacement though, preferring to dump them early.

For secondary use, I could live with one. Range is getting better, but a pure EV would not suit my long distance driving needs. Some of the early attraction for EVs came from free-charging stations; once that disappears, you need to be mindful of your grid rates. My preference is to be off-grid in general; having enough personal generation capacity to be able to charge my local runabout would be ideal....

IC engines are not going to disappear soon, but we are going to see more pure electric and hybrid vehicles....

Rgds, D.

 

[houstonscott]

People seem to like EVs, once they try them.... as with hybrids, many consumers today don't want to deal with battery-pack replacement though, preferring to dump them early. For secondary use, I could live with one. Range is getting better, but a pure EV would not suit my long distance driving needs. Some of the early attraction for EVs came from free-charging stations; once that disappears, you need to be mindful of your grid rates. My preference is to be off-grid in general; having enough personal generation capacity to be able to charge my local runabout would be ideal.... IC engines are not going to disappear soon, but we are going to see more pure electric and hybrid vehicles.... Rgds, D.

I think you'll find statistics show most EV customers do not buy a second. Wanting something to be true doesn't make it true.

 

[houstonscott]

People seem to like EVs, once they try them.... as with hybrids, many consumers today don't want to deal with battery-pack replacement though, preferring to dump them early. For secondary use, I could live with one. Range is getting better, but a pure EV would not suit my long distance driving needs. Some of the early attraction for EVs came from free-charging stations; once that disappears, you need to be mindful of your grid rates. My preference is to be off-grid in general; having enough personal generation capacity to be able to charge my local runabout would be ideal.... IC engines are not going to disappear soon, but we are going to see more pure electric and hybrid vehicles.... Rgds, D.

I think detaching yourself with government (Canada power is government) reliance is very attractive to many. The extra money and issues with battery cars weighted against government control, everyone has to make their own decision. I agree as long as media and governments continue to convince people of a need for EV, and tax payers subsidize them, a small market will remain.

 

[buickanddeere]

Battery operated cars remain, coal or more and more a NG powered car, in reality. That's fine, but efficient when comparing against gas directly, no. I understand California's need to do something, they have 6 of the top 10 most polluted cities in the country.

California again leads list with 6 of the top 1 most polluted U.S. cities

The LA basin was called the "Valley of Smokes" by the locals before white man ever seen the area. So just how exactly are solution controls going to make LA crystal clear ?

 

[buickanddeere]

I think you'll find statistics show most EV customers do not buy a second. Wanting something to be true doesn't make it true.

" Wanting something to be true doesn't make it true." Now there is one of the best and most honest answers to life, people and tech I have ever heard.