Firewood processor build thread

[CDN Farm Boy]

Delayed double post removed

 

[mikefromnh]

I was thinking T's in the supply and return with gate valves on the lines going to and from the 10 gallon tank. So that you could adjust the flow to keep the levels in the tank even. Each tank would have it's own breather. Might be more trouble then it's worth.

 

[ajmaxham]

THE GOOD

before/after
View attachment 407503View attachment 407504

PA reduced the hose to 3/4", not really suction hose. It's now 1 1/2" Parker suction hose. Hydraulic shop says they would have used 1" return, but it should work.

I vote for the new larger hydraulic tank.

I would also change the return to 1'' as the Hydraulic Shop said. The smaller return line could add to the friction -- (more heat for the hydraulic oil and slower cycle time).

 

[aczlan]

hmmmm... interesting idea. I really don't know if that could be done. I have two 55 gallon barrels mounted on the back of my box blade, I use it as a zamboni in the winter for my rink. The two tanks are joined together with 1.5" pipe and go to the water bar on the bottom. When you attach a garden hose to one tank, the water level in that tank will stay much higher than the water level in the other tank. Of course, I'm attaching the hose to the air vent of the first barrel, not sure if the air vent on the 10 gallon tank (which would be the first tank) would make any difference.

If you have both tanks vented (I would vent the first into the 2nd, then the 2nd to air) and enough flow through the equalizing hose (might need 1.5"), 2 tanks can work quite well.

Aaron Z

 

[kiotiken]

THE GOOD

before/after
View attachment 407503View attachment 407504



I vote for the new larger hydraulic tank.

I would also change the return to 1'' as the Hydraulic Shop said. The smaller return line could add to the friction -- (more heat for the hydraulic oil and slower cycle time).

I agree with changing the lines to 1", and it may eventually happen, but for now, I'm going to go with more oil and see what happens. I just don't want to buy all new fittings throwing yet more money out the window for the old fittings. If more oil doesn't fix it and I'm forced to add a rad/fan, the lines will be changed as well.

If you have both tanks vented (I would vent the first into the 2nd, then the 2nd to air) and enough flow through the equalizing hose (might need 1.5"), 2 tanks can work quite well.

Aaron Z

So, I'm going back on buying the tank (so unlike me to flip flop :laughing. I was looking at the price of the 25 gallon tank when I figured I'd only save $100, it's more like $200 for the 37 gallon tank. The big reason though is to be able to use both tanks as mikefromnh suggested. From the 2" supply port on the 10 gallon tank, I'll move up to a 3" solid pipe and make a 3" supply port on my custom tank. My design (that saves about $200) also includes a 5" clean out port and internal tank filter and magnetic drain port, which is not part of the tank I'd be buying. I'm going back and forth on putting the clean out port and internal filter in, so I may end up saving a little more.

To answer the inevitable question about how I save $200 building a tank that only costs $279 to build, here's what that tank really costs since I'm in Canada.

$279 US
$65 US delivery to UPS store in NY
23% exchange rate
13% sales tax at the boarder
My time and gas to drive to NY to get it.
Any duties I might have to pay.

 

[aczlan]

So, I'm going back on buying the tank (so unlike me to flip flop :laughing. I was looking at the price of the 25 gallon tank when I figured I'd only save $100, it's more like $200 for the 37 gallon tank. The big reason though is to be able to use both tanks as mikefromnh suggested. From the 2" supply port on the 10 gallon tank, I'll move up to a 3" solid pipe and make a 3" supply port on my custom tank. My design (that saves about $200) also includes a 5" clean out port and internal tank filter and magnetic drain port, which is not part of the tank I'd be buying. I'm going back and forth on putting the clean out port and internal filter in, so I may end up saving a little more.

Might want to use a union (or something) between the tanks if you can find one so that you can separate them down the road if needed?
What do you mean by internal tank filter? Do you mean a filter attached to the return line inside the tank, or a suction strainer?
On the other hand, if you are building the tank yourself, why not make one tank that is big enough to not need the existing one?

To answer the inevitable question about how I save $200 building a tank that only costs $279 to build, here's what that tank really costs since I'm in Canada.
$279 US
$65 US delivery to UPS store in NY
23% exchange rate
13% sales tax at the boarder
My time and gas to drive to NY to get it.
Any duties I might have to pay.

Aren't borders great?

Aaron Z

 

[kiotiken]

Might want to use a union (or something) between the tanks if you can find one so that you can separate them down the road if needed?
What do you mean by internal tank filter? Do you mean a filter attached to the return line inside the tank, or a suction strainer?
On the other hand, if you are building the tank yourself, why not make one tank that is big enough to not need the existing one?


Aren't borders great?

Aaron Z

Well, you can see from the picture, I don't have enough room to built a large tank in the current space without running into the pump. My new tank will hang on the side of the frame so I'll either just remove the existing tank and have a space there, or keep it in place.

Yes, I'm talking about a suction strainer. I would have a union to disconnect the tanks. This will also make it easier to install them in the first place, I won't have to spin on my new tank, getting it just right to be able to bolt in into place.

 

[aczlan]

What if you made it wider (so its as wide as your space) and either made it L shaped so it sticks out the left end of the splitter, or removed the crossbars the tank is sitting on and installed a taller tank?

L shaped tank:

Larger square tank:


It wont take a lot more metal, but from what I have seen, a 3" union isn't cheap, so it might be worth the extra to build a larger tank.

Aaron Z

 

[mikefromnh]

How about cut the ten gallon tank in half and add some metal in between to make it bigger?

 

[kiotiken]

What if you made it wider (so its as wide as your space) and either made it L shaped so it sticks out the left end of the splitter, or removed the crossbars the tank is sitting on and installed a taller tank?

L shaped tank:
View attachment 417819
Larger square tank:
View attachment 417818

It wont take a lot more metal, but from what I have seen, a 3" union isn't cheap, so it might be worth the extra to build a larger tank.

Aaron Z

Well, it would be harder to build, but I'll look at it. What got me thinking about just building it myself was looking at the construction of the tank from the Surplus center and seeing how simple it is to build. Bend one piece into a U one way, another piece in a slightly smaller U the other way, add a baffle and some ports and you're done.

I have 2 - 1.5" unions on my zamboni and they weren't too bad, I've never look for or priced a 3" union. I'm going to start by searching out all the parts, most of which I've already found, and go from there. If the union is really expensive, I may have to rethink it.

From my drawings, a 37 gallon tank (copying the one from the Surplus Center) will take a full sheet of metal. 13 gauge cold rolled sheets are $156 here (before I have them apply my usual discount). They don't have hot rolled sheets in 13 gauge, only 12 and they're $212.

How about cut the ten gallon tank in half and add some metal in between to make it bigger?

I want to preserve the 10 gallon tank in case I want to reconfigure in the future for upgrades. Also, it is powder coated so finishing it would be an issue.

 

[woodchipper]

Ken, if I recall correctly, you said you just might end up using a second engine, with its own hydraulics to power all the auxiliary fonctions. so then why not keep in place your 10gl.tank? I would not go to the car rad venue for the simple reason that it will not handle the flow. and that is regardless of pressures allready discussed.
As for you oil, you are perhaps using grade 32. If that is the case, I would opt for 64, or even thicker, as your system does generate a lot of friction overall.

 

[farmer2009]

I see your still having trouble with the hydraulics. I Just thought I'd drop a few details about a hydraulic implement we use. It's a poultry housekeeper and uses its own hydraulic system to do everything. I believe it would be a good comparison for you.

22 GPM PTO pump
30 gal reservoir no cooler
AW-68 oil


It gets hot but in 3 years hasn't given us any troubles.

 

[vwnotrunning]

Consider 3" flanges instead of a ground joint Union. Could be weld neck, slip on or threaded. Weld necks may be able to be welded directly to the tank side allowing them to be bolted together.

 

[kiotiken]

Ken, if I recall correctly, you said you just might end up using a second engine, with its own hydraulics to power all the auxiliary fonctions. so then why not keep in place your 10gl.tank? I would not go to the car rad venue for the simple reason that it will not handle the flow. and that is regardless of pressures allready discussed.
As for you oil, you are perhaps using grade 32. If that is the case, I would opt for 64, or even thicker, as your system does generate a lot of friction overall.

The plan right now is to re-purpose a 6.5 hp engine I have but I'm going to use it as a direct drive for the conveyor out feed. I'd like to keep the small tank for possible future use for a second engine BUT I think in that case, I'd look for a single larger engine, belt drive several pumps and use a common reservoir, but who knows maybe it would still make sense to have separate tanks. I plan on keeping this thing for a long time and a change to the engine is an inevitable upgrade at some point so I want to keep my options open for now.

As for the fluid, yes it is AW 32. This machine is supposed to be a winter only machine so I put winter oil in it. This will be the only year I use it in the spring and possibly in the summer and since it's now got $400 worth of oil, I'm not changing it for the seasons!

Consider 3" flanges instead of a ground joint Union. Could be weld neck, slip on or threaded. Weld necks may be able to be welded directly to the tank side allowing them to be bolted together.

Great idea. I haven't started looking for those parts yet, I'll keep it in mind when I do.

 

[kiotiken]

I'm planning on getting organized this week to build the tank and conveyor next week. I've already started gathering supplies and racking up more bills I picked up 30 gallons of hydraulic fluid this weekend along with a tank level/temp gauge, vented cap and weld on flanges. Unfortunately, the largest flange they had was 2" so I bought on of those for the inlet of the new tank and a 1.5" for the new outlet port. The existing small tank only has a 1.5" outlet port, not a 2" like I thought so anything bigger than 2" probably wouldn't make much difference anyway.



I also picked up a bunch of parts for the conveyor system. I designed a system that used regular chain with two tapered (think wheel barrow) wheels pushed togther at each end to drive it. I couldn't find a reasonable price on large roller or flat chain, so I thought that could work. When I got to PA, they had thick garage floor rubber48" wide runner on sale. I figure I can rip it into 16" wide strips and link it as one large belt. I'll add several pieces of angle iron to help move the wood and they will also help secure the pieces together. I asked for 8' of it, he cut about 10' so I have lots to play with. I think this will work and at $7.99/ft, it's a lot cheaper.



Since I still have lots of snow on the lawn except where I plowed roads (down to the grass), it's going to be a while before I can start using the tractor again without destroying my lawn. That's why I haven't been in a huge rush to finish the tank but it's time to get it done so I'm ready to go when the ground dries out enough.

 

[woodchipper]

If I understand correctly, you will use rubber floor mating as a conveyor belt? Those are not kevlar fiber reinforced. Therefore, with the cold, they will rip quick, the logs will want to take a good bite from it as well, and not the least, you will end up with quite a bit of slack in no time. Chains used in barn gutter cleaners would be the ultimate log rolling chain!!

 

[kiotiken]

If I understand correctly, you will use rubber floor mating as a conveyor belt? Those are not kevlar fiber reinforced. Therefore, with the cold, they will rip quick, the logs will want to take a good bite from it as well, and not the least, you will end up with quite a bit of slack in no time. Chains used in barn gutter cleaners would be the ultimate log rolling chain!!

Yup, that's what I was thinking. I'm not in for spending another $1000+ to build a conveyor, so I either need to improvise or figure out another way to make it work. I was thinking that stuff is tough, thick and should be ok in the cold since it's made for the garage. I'll give it some more thought.

 

[farmer2009]

Yup, that's what I was thinking. I'm not in for spending another $1000+ to build a conveyor, so I either need to improvise or figure out another way to make it work. I was thinking that stuff is tough, thick and should be ok in the cold since it's made for the garage. I'll give it some more thought.

Have you looked at using belting for a hay baler? It about $6 a foot for a 10" wide belt.

Apache 10" 3-Ply Cover x Cover Belt 21200562 by Apache Hose Corp. for $5.99 : Rural King

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Have you looked at using belting for a hay baler? It about $6 a foot for a 10" wide belt.

Apache 10" 3-Ply Cover x Cover Belt 21200562 by Apache Hose Corp. for $5.99 : Rural King

That's a good idea. Another possibility would be a used rubber track from a mini ex or CTL. I'd imagine that it shouldn't be hard to find one for a couple hundred or less since they are just scrap once replaced

 

[kiotiken]

Have you looked at using belting for a hay baler? It about $6 a foot for a 10" wide belt.

Apache 10" 3-Ply Cover x Cover Belt 21200562 by Apache Hose Corp. for $5.99 : Rural King

Just called my local farm supply. $300 for a 20' X 8" belt. I'll have to see if I can find better. After shipping and crossing the boarder, that may still be better than the $5.99 a foot!