Ford 1715 PTO Clutch Adjusment -- Help

[joe12185]

1. I tried a pipe wrench on the orc shaft, could not get it to slip but there was not much grip avialable because the shaft was very slippery.
2. I used TSC premium fluid, not mystic, it is only listed as good for ford tractors up to 1973, mine is a 1993.
3. I was brush hogging with a 5' newholland hog and the driveshaft stops turning.
4. have to go to work now, but will investigate into the 2 stage clutch issue further when I get home. I was thinking 2 stage clutch was the only culprit left.

 

[JC-jetro]

1. I tried a pipe wrench on the orc shaft, could not get it to slip but there was not much grip avialable because the shaft was very slippery.

3. I was brush hogging with a 5' newholland hog and the driveshaft stops turning.

Item 3 leads me to believe you have clutch slippage. On my 1700 I have a rubber hand hole cover on the bell housing to inspect clutch pressure plate and or adjustment of dual clutch without disassembly. Do you have it on your 1715? if so you can take a peek inside.

JC,


Tracto data report 1715 only came in single clutch transmission driven PTO. They are not always right. I could not find your rig on NH website. If you lose locomotion, doing blading, with gear engaged, clutch out then slippage of clutch disk under heavy load is the most reasonable clue I can think of.

TractorData.com Ford 1715 tractor information

 

[joe12185]

JC,

The tractor has never lost locomotion, the loader is in the way to see in the rubber plug, the one on the left is about 1/2 dollar size and also has the same size plug on the right. The gear that drives the orc countershaft is on the clutch side of the gears that drive the transmission, therefore it could not be on the inner shaft of a 2 stage clutch as you had said would be the case in an earlier post. The gears on the lower transmission shaft spin as one unit pushing on them with a prybar. My conclusion is that I have a single clutch. The powerflow also leads me to the same conclusion.

powerflow:

The power comes in from the clutch and drives the lower shaft in the transmission, this shaft has a gear that drives the countershaft that drives the orc and also has gears that drive the 3 speeds and reverse on the upper transmission shaft.

The upper shaft drives the range selecter.

The range selector drives the differential that drives the rear wheels.

I noticed some milky fluid draining from the orc which tells me that water has gotten in there. Before I reassemble this tractor I am going to rinse it all out with kerosene. I have decided this weekend I will drive the pto shaft, pto countershaft out the rear and remove the orc for inspection, this will also give me piece of mind that the outer race of the orc has the added bearings from the TSB. If I discover any play in the bearings I will replace them. this will also give me a chance to inspect all of these parts for corrosion due to the water I removed last fall. Before I removed the contaminated fluid I had ran the brush hog for about 20 hours last year.

Do you agree with me that this is the next logical step since I already have the tractor split so that these parts can be serviced?

P.S. The TSC Premium fluid meets Ford 134 d,c,b,a specs per the container. The manual says the tractor requires FNH 134 fluid.

 

[JC-jetro]

Joe,

1-I really think the oil in this case has nothing to do with the problem and engagement is gear to gear and solid unless something causes the shift fork to move and gears jump and go out of mesh. I can only see oil effecting an oil immersed hydraulically activated PTO clutch pack that I have on Kubota and for sure that is not the case with your 1715.

2. I would do exactly what you suggest as far as further dis assembly for inspection. I think something has some fore and aft movement causing disengagement of gears. You do need new gasket to replace when you take PTO final shaft out. Hopefully this is the work you have to do only once. I have not done this wok myself but I think there is a retaining snap ring that holds driving and driven gear inside of the ORC assembly. Perhaps you can take it off to visually inspect the ORC inside. Please take some pics and post as I think it will be valuable to have here for all to use.

3- One of the Guys also commented if you could visually see the PTO is coming to stop. BY the way,you most probably know , if you clutch fully your pto will stop in transmission driven pto type. With PTO lever engaged and tractor in neutral the PTO should continue spinning.

JC,

 

[joe12185]

Thanks, I will be sure to post pictures so the next guy that has this issue has more of an idea as to how to fix it. Hopefully I can get this done this weekend. When the pto is engaged I have observed the output shaft while running the main clutch with my hand it starts normal speed for about half a second, then runs real slow with no torque. When it is running slow I can stop it with my hand and the pto lever does not move as it slows down my theroy is the only reason it is spinning at all at that point is due to the hydrolic coupling within the orc that you described in an earlier post. This only happens when the orc in immersed in fluid. Either the sprags are worn from years of use or the inner or outer race is worn or all 3 which would be worst case I will post pictures of the parts once I remove them, then take them to the local dealership for inspection if I can't find an obvious defect. All will be added to the thread.

 

[JC-jetro]

Thanks, I will be sure to post pictures so the next guy that has this issue has more of an idea as to how to fix it. Hopefully I can get this done this weekend. When the pto is engaged I have observed the output shaft while running the main clutch with my hand it starts normal speed for about half a second, then runs real slow with no torque. When it is running slow I can stop it with my hand and the pto lever does not move as it slows down my theroy is the only reason it is spinning at all at that point is due to the hydrolic coupling within the orc that you described in an earlier post. This only happens when the orc in immersed in fluid. Either the sprags are worn from years of use or the inner or outer race is worn or all 3 which would be worst case I will post pictures of the parts once I remove them, then take them to the local dealership for inspection if I can't find an obvious defect. All will be added to the thread.

Joe, please be careful grabbing the final PTO shaft. Your luck and stupid thing might decide to engage fully and wrap your arms around it. I would use a piece of 2x4 and long enough, on side on the ground and the opposite side held by my hand against the rotating shaft to see if I can slow it down. It so much sound like it damaged or worn out. take notice of for-aft movement of the shafts if they could potentially uncouple gears.

JC,

 

[joe12185]

The countershaft that is driven by the orc and drives the final pto shaft has some movement along its axis, the orc also moves about the same amount, I do not think that this was the case before I split the tractor though. I am hoping inspection will reveal the source of the play. The pto drive gears are about 1 inch thick and the movement is about 1/8th on an inch so I am skeptical of that causing the disengagement, especially when running with no load. Disassembly is planned for tomorrow morning. I plan to take pictures of everything that I would have liked to have seen before attempting this project. Hopefully I can find something that needs fixin so that I can begin reassembly.

 

[JC-jetro]

Good luck.:thumbsup:

 

[joe12185]

Got the orc out, this is a picture of the orc and the updated shaft that is driven by it. The updated shaft goes through the inner race and is supported by two bearings inside the outer race.

 

[joe12185]

This is a picture of the orc disassembled, there is some discoloration on the sprags, looks to me like rust? In the third picture you can see the inside of the outer race, and the places where the additional bearings go.