Generator Advice

[Iplayfarmer]

I'm in the market for a new generator (as soon as I can sell the pickup box trailer that was thrown into the deal when I bought my old camp trailer).

I'm comparing a few "Off Brand" generators and wanted some first hand experience or advice from the group here.

There are two at harbor freight that look pretty good:
1) Harbor Freight Tools - 9 Hp 4500 Watt
2) Harbor Freight Tools - 11 hp 5700 Watt

The third option is from Max Tool, a guy that sells generators on E-bay:
3)Max Tool 6.5 Hp 4400 Watt

I'm particularly interested in any feedback or experience with these max-tool generators. I'm familiar with Harbor Freight and their quality. I know what I'm giving up there for the lower price. I don't really know what kind of quality this max tool guy has got.

This generator will be used for back-up power for my house and shop and as a camping generator.

 

[BTDT]

Hardy Diesel

These folks have a lot of choices. Good luck with your search.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

I see one of the uses is for camping. If you camp anywhere close to others, be a good neighbor and buy one of the inverter quiet gensets.

Of the 3 genset you gave links to, the 11HP one from HF with the Subaru/Robin engine, these are TOP notch engines. All ball bearing, no plastic internal like a lot of other engines and an OHC design. Both the other 2 models appear to have the Chinese copies of the Honda GX engines.

One of the lower cost inverter gensets is Kipor. They have a decent reputation. They're made in china but I've read there is some connection with them and Phillips. I have one of their 1kw models and I'm please with it. They have models to compete with almost every Honda inverter model.

 

[RonMar]

The inverter gensets are also WAY more fuel efficient compared to other conventional gasoline types, as they reduce throttle and RPM drastically with lower loads. The Honda's also leave you room for future expansion as you can interconnect 2 of them and they will automatically sync and operate in parallel for double the output capacity. But with any portable gasoline powered appliance, probably the biggest killer of these is lack of use.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I just realized that I switched the links with the titles. Sorry. The one that says 11 hp actually links to the one that is 9 hp and visa versa.

I see one of the uses is for camping. If you camp anywhere close to others, be a good neighbor and buy one of the inverter quiet gensets.

You're beyond me. Are any of these that I linked to inverter gensets?

I had another question...

HF gets 4500 watts out of a 9 HP engine. The Power Max guy gets almost the same peak out of a much smaller 6.5 hp engine. Why?

Also, Does it mean anything that the peak and the rated output are closer together on some generators than on others? Once again, the 4500 watt subaru/Robin is rated at 4000 watts continuous, whereas the 4400 watt power max is rated only at 3500 watts continuous.

Is this some indication of quality, longevity, etc.?

 

[mopacman]

4500 watts is 6 horse power at 100% effience. So 6.5 hp won't generate that much power with out overloading the engine.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

I just realized that I switched the links with the titles. Sorry. The one that says 11 hp actually links to the one that is 9 hp and visa versa.



You're beyond me. Are any of these that I linked to inverter gensets?

I had another question...

HF gets 4500 watts out of a 9 HP engine. The Power Max guy gets almost the same peak out of a much smaller 6.5 hp engine. Why?

Also, Does it mean anything that the peak and the rated output are closer together on some generators than on others? Once again, the 4500 watt subaru/Robin is rated at 4000 watts continuous, whereas the 4400 watt power max is rated only at 3500 watts continuous.

Is this some indication of quality, longevity, etc.?

No on the genset you posted. All the gensets you posted run at full speed, 3600 rpm, all the time, little noise abatement, noisy. Inverter genset have variable engine speed based on load. All are designed to min noise.

As for different sized engines, could be one is running engine harder and may not be as honest with power rating. Design and qlty of the generator head plays a big part on how hard one can be pushed and for how long. I also suspect none of these low cost gensets have a generators designed for LONG term consistant usage.

 

[schmism]

4500 watts is 6 horse power at 100% effience. So 6.5 hp won't generate that much power with out overloading the engine.

1 hp is 745(n change) Watts

6hp i would expect to get a max of 3800w out of.

if your on the tractor forum.... why not a pto version

NorthStar PTO Generator — 7200 Watt, 14 HP Required | PTO Generators | Northern Tool + Equipment

 

[saltman]

I bought a Troy Built generator from Lowe's about two years ago. It has a 10hp Briggs and Stratton engine and puts out 5,550 watts with 8,550 starting watts. I need at least 6,500 to get my well pump to work so I think these ratings are fairly accurate.

The price is a little more than what you were quoted but I noticed a while ago they were on sale and much less than what they had been listed at.
I use the generator a few times a week, it always starts first pull and seems to be very well built.

 

[schmism]

I bought a Troy Built generator from Lowe's about two years ago. It has a 10hp Briggs and Stratton engine and puts out 5,550 watts with 8,550 starting watts. I need at least 6,500 to get my well pump to work so I think these ratings are fairly accurate. .

if the 10hp motor is puting out 10hp at full throttle, then its impossible to pull 8550 watts off of it... max theoritical output would be 7450.

15% loss (good balpark) = 6332 so the continous rating of 5550 would be accurate.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

if your on the tractor forum.... why not a pto version

I had seriously thought about it in the past, but now that I bought a camp trailer I'd kind of like something that I can use to go camping with.

I love my tractor...really...but I just don't see myself taking it camping.

 

[RonMar]

You have to watch the wording. "Peak" or "surge" rating is often the one in bold type in the specifications and advertisements as it is a bigger number and looks more impressive. That 10HP may very well be able to handle that 8KW figure for a second(or fraction of) to get that large power tool, water pump, air conditioner or compressor started due to it's larger mass of spinning parts(crank, flywheel and generator rotor), but it will never sustain it. That 5500W figure for sustained/average output on a 10HP engine is very realistic in my opinion. One thing a very high surge rateing might indicate is that the generator portion is built a little heavier duty(more iron and copper). Electrically the gen head can handle more load than the engine can and this can be a good thing.

Not including the inverter types, There hasn't been any real stunning breakthru's in small direct drive generator technology other than finding ways to maintain an adequate field and the same output with lighter/less materials. It takes about the same ammount of HP to provide for a given electrical load as it has for the past several decades. For sustained operation, a good rule of thumb is 2HP per Kilowatt.

If you find someone rating their generator much higher than that, look for the fine print and words like peak and surge, or duty cycle ratings IE, it will supply that, but only at a 50% duty cycle(1 hour out of any 2).

 

[schmism]

I just don't see myself taking it camping.

i think your fooling yourself if your looking for one generator that is going to do both well. (camping and standby power for your house/shop)

The "cheep" HD/lowes etc genny's are loud and after they sit for a year, a PITA to start. But work great for powering the house, wellpump, fridge etc.

But for everything its good at, they are exactly everything you DONT need when your camping. 1) bulk, 2) noise 3)reliablity (or lack there of)

this is why the honda "i" series were created. (DC inverter type) they are compact, quiet, fuel efficent, and reliable. everything you want for camping. pluss there output matches the demand of the standard campsite.

If your looking for something for an RV to run an AC or something, your gonna need more than an i series, and a cheep one isnt going to serve you long running hrs on end weeked after weekend. There is a reason why a RV propain powered Onan 1800rpm gennys are expensive per watt!

IMHO there is a singular soultion (to both camping and home standby power) which would be the last expensive option, but people who start off suggesting $500-800 genny's usually balk at a $3500 gen set. moveing past the expensive option while both the other options MAY work for all your criteria, i dont think youll be happy with it in all cases.

 

[RonMar]

And if you are taking it into a public campground, I can guarantee that your neighbors won't be very happy with the cheaper options droning away either

Spent a night at a high mountain campground in eastern OR a few summers back. Had a rude neighbor in an RV who's generator started and ran every time the little furnace kicked on to re-heat the interior. It was cold, especially out in the breeze, but not unbareably so and I was comfortable in a tent with a sleeping bag. His noisy little genset started up and roared every 45 minutes to an hour and I slept that night thru in little catnaps. I don't think he got much sleep either as the neighborhood took turns going and knocking on his door throughout the night asking him to shut it off every time it started up. If we would have been easilly within cell coverage, I am sure the sheriff would have been called.

Those little Hondas are a wonder. You can hardly hear them from a short distance away.

 

[AndyMA]

If I were buying a generator for standby use it would either be a PTO or an LP powered generator.

A gas or diesel powered generator is just too succeptable to fuel degration.

Andy

 

[thatguy]

I have a Honda 2000i and it is very quiet and at about 50# portable enough.. Some ppl have been able to power their camper AC with it, but I havent tried that yet..

the one gallon tank will run it about 11 or 12 hours (14 or 15 is the advertised time) with the Eco-Throttle ON (drops to a lower RPM when full power is not needed)..

Even one as quiet as the inverter Hondas or Yamahas are they will not be welcomed in most campgrounds it seems..

brian

 

[rexcramer]

I have the Briggs and Stratton 5500/8500 unit listed above and it starts right away every time. It is also heavy and big. I wouldnt dream of taking it camping unless I was in the middle of nowhere (like my hunting camp is).

I use it for backup power for my house and hunting camp only.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Thanks for all the posts. I've been on vacation, so I'm just now getting back.

As for the public campground concept...If I'm going to a campground where there are other people around anyway, I can just find one with hook-ups and I'll plug in. The point of the generator is to allow me to park and camp in places where there are not other people. I really think I'd only need to run it for a few hours in the late afternoon to run the A/C and re-charge batteries.

I appreciate the words of caution. That's the reason I posted here. I knew I'd get some good advice.

The main reason I'd be getting a generator would be as a backup for my house power and the occasional off-site project. If I could get the same one to power the camper too, it would be icing on the cake.

Another question about portable generators...

Has anyone ever had any luck building a sound chamber around the generator? I'm sure you'd have to put in a fan or some kind of air handling system to keep the engine cool.

 

[texasjohn]

I have a 6500 watt peak Coleman from HD. Noisy. Heavy. Has wheels. Reliable so far. All points I thought about have already made by others. For a house, particularly with a well, quite a large generator is needed, at least as large as I have. also, to drive a 175 amp MIG welder similar size is needed... I am able to weld with mine out in the pasture.

 

[schmism]

Has anyone ever had any luck building a sound chamber around the generator? I'm sure you'd have to put in a fan or some kind of air handling system to keep the engine cool.

your better off rebuilding the exaust and add a honda muffler to it. I have experience working with a large honda unit

it was still quiet enough to hold a normal conversation about 10 feet away.

I keep meaning to do this with my 10hp kohler on my Colman unit, but its like a leaking roof... it only leaks when it rains, but you cant fix it when its raining....and when its not raining its not leaking..... (if you catch my drift)