Generator question

[AndyMA]

115 is not abnormal. Typical range is 110-125VAC

Check your in house outlets while on utility power and see what you're getting.

ANSI Standard for Grid Voltage is =/- 5% 114V - 126V

Andy

 

[LouNY]

A 4 pole alternator is quite large and heavy and requires a larger engine to turn for same amount of power as a 2 pole. Most 4 pole units use automotive engines for larger units. I had an old Onan 5,000 watt 4 pole ....was a monster. And not really all that quiet. But ran forever.

They are a bit heaver but require no more horsepower per KW then a 2 pole,
most engines are larger and heavier to make an equal amount of HP at lower rpm.

 

[grsthegreat]

They are a bit heaver but require no more horsepower per KW then a 2 pole,
most engines are larger and heavier to make an equal amount of HP at lower rpm.

?.. what. An air cooled 22 kw (3600 rpm 2 pole) uses 999 cu in engine(36 hp) while same 22 kw liquid cooled (1800 rpm 4 pole) has a 2.4 liter engine.(50hp )
The alternator is at least 50% larger in size if not more....i never actually measured them.

An engine running at 1/2 speed requires twice the torque. A 4-pole motor has about 3.0 ft-lbs of torque per horsepower whereas a 2 pole motor has 1.5 ft-lbs of torque.

So to turn a 4 pole alternator at a slower speed will require a larger engine.

 

[LouNY]

?.. what. An air cooled 22 kw (3600 rpm 2 pole) uses 999 cu in engine while same 22 kw liquid cooled (1800 rpm 4 pole) has a 2.4 liter engine.
The alternator is at least 50% larger in size if not more....i never actually measured them.

It does not take HP to spin the generator head until it has a kw load at that time the hp requirement is the same it doesn't matter how many poles in the generator,
roughly 2 hp per kw of produced power.
Look at the rated hp of those two engines at the operating rpm.

 

[grsthegreat]

It does not take HP to spin the generator head until it has a kw load at that time the hp requirement is the same it doesn't matter how many poles in the generator,
roughly 2 hp per kw of produced power.
Look at the rated hp of those two engines at the operating rpm.

36 hp vs 49-50 hp

 

[BrokenTrack]

The thing is, you have to account for the power curve of whatever engine you are using. With gasoline engines, the power curve is a little less in RPM then diesels...

I ran into this trouble, because my PTO generator has to be meshed to the gear box. This is fine for PTO operation, but not so great for my diesel engine only configuration. If I ran my Perkins Diesel Engine straight into my PTO generator, my engine would only be turning 900 rpm or so, and thus my 55 hp engine is only making 8 hp at that speed. That is not enough wattage for my electrical needs, and nearing stall speed if a heavy electrical load was to hit it.

But to get the right hertz, which is 60 cycles at 245 volts, it has to be geared up. I need at least 1500 rpm to start getting into its power curve of my Perkins engine, and a higher rpm would be better (2000 rpm). So for me, I need a 7.5 inch pullet at the flywheel of my Perkins, and a 20 inch pulley at my pto generators input shaft to give me the 1800/540 rpm that I need.

But then there is the issue of governor speed. EVEN if an engine could make enough power at 900 rpm, that is below 1200 rpm, and that is when the governor stops working effectively. If the water pump to my home was to come on while the generator was operating at 900 rpm, the engine would not throttle up, and I would get brown-out...or low hertz (also called frequency). Eventually this will burn up my well pump.

So everything really is tied together. It is not just about having enough horsepower, it is having enough horsepower at the right rpm.

 

[Oldpath05]

I didn't see anything about poles or HZ on this one but did see 120/240 volts, but what happen to the surge number, has peak and running, comes with transfer switch hook up but I already have 7000 watt transfer switch. The best part it comes with a 10 year warranty for New England TBN members...........
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Westing...tch-Outlet-for-Home-Backup-WGen7500/301466616

I did a quick 120 volt check tonight in several outlets cause someone hear mentions volt variances, yup got some variances tonight, cant get a 120 volt reading like I have in the past, could be some UFO inference going on............

 

[BrokenTrack]

I didn't see anything about poles or HZ on this one but did see 120/240 volts, but what happen to the surge number, has peak and running, comes with transfer switch hook up but I already have 7000 watt transfer switch. The best part it comes with a 10 year warranty for New England TBN members...........
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Westing...tch-Outlet-for-Home-Backup-WGen7500/301466616

I did a quick 120 volt check tonight in several outlets cause someone hear mentions volt variances, yup got some variances tonight, cant get a 120 volt reading like I have in the past, could be some UFO inference going on............

View attachment 655413 View attachment 655412 View attachment 655411

I have noticed CMP has some varying voltages/hertz lately.

 

[RoyKing]

Westinghouse went bankrupt years ago, the name was bought up by some China company. The same one that screwed up the nuclear power plant build in Ga. I don't believe much in the ad. 16 hr run time at what load? Three year warranty hah you won't be able to get parts. My gut feeling China junk.

 

[grsthegreat]

Westinghouse went bankrupt years ago, the name was bought up by some China company. The same one that screwed up the nuclear power plant build in Ga. I don't believe much in the ad. 16 hr run time at what load? Three year warranty hah you won't be able to get parts. My gut feeling China junk.

Westinghouse is not chinese. Maybe the generators are made in china, but company is usa owned.

 

[RoyKing]

Westinghouse is not chinese. Maybe the generators are made in china, but company is usa owned.

:confused3:

Westinghouse went bankrupt when they were working with Toshiba on the Vogtle plant in Geogria. The name was sold, to Brookfield business partners which is an off shore holding company. So nothing American about it

 

[Oldpath05]

I have noticed CMP has some varying voltages/hertz lately.

It was that night the voltage numbers was going up and down, the last time I checked last fall my outlets were 119-120 and stayed that way. Guess electricity making is still a complicated science, cause some are still not sure if we should went DC instead of AC.

 

[BrokenTrack]

It was that night the voltage numbers was going up and down, the last time I checked last fall my outlets were 119-120 and stayed that way. Guess electricity making is still a complicated science, cause some are still not sure if we should went DC instead of AC.

There is no question in my mind, but I am a welder and former railroader.

The ironic thing is, while electricians get a lot of respect for "working with electricity", that is something they actually do very little of. All they do is hook wire A to Connection A in a junction box. Welders...like no one else...take electricity, work it, change it, manipulate it, to do what they need to do, to get work accomplished.

I work with both AC and DC, and know that we need both, but AC for the grid. Even Thomas Edison admitted at the end of his life that AC was the proper way to distribute electricity.

Things are just so different now though. Years ago the conversion from AC to DC was so inefficient that there was no argument on which was better 220 volt versus 120 volt, but now that digital controls are involved, the waters are getting muddied. A good inverter welder can really give the welder an ability to weld like never before.

 

[BrokenTrack]

I am doing a video today for my welding students for Long Distance Learning, and talking about why pulse welding is becoming so popular. The whole topic is about what I said above, taking electricity and manipulating it.

Pulse welding works so well on both thin and thick steel because as never before, we can take those electrical waves and manipulate it, chop those wave tops off so that it no longer looks like a wave, but rather like the top of a castle. We can then further refine that castle-top line down to short or long tops so we can control our arc...all at 40,000-100,000 times a second. We have never had that ability before, but now can with digital inverters.

It works on both thick and thin steel because if you chop 1/3 of the tops of the waves off those electrical pulses, you also chop 1/3 of your heat out of the weldment. There is still plenty of arc to enable fusion of the steel and filler wire, but all the unnecessary heat is taken away. Take the unnecessary heat away, and you take away warpage and undercut!

Of course there is no free lunch, it comes at a slight price. With that ability to control the electricity, it can get a welder into some hot water by getting their settings WAY off. Trying to rein that back in can be a pain when things get really whacko on you.

 

[yomax4]

I am doing a video today for my welding students for Long Distance Learning, and talking about why pulse welding is becoming so popular. The whole topic is about what I said above, taking electricity and manipulating it.

Pulse welding works so well on both thin and thick steel because as never before, we can take those electrical waves and manipulate it, chop those wave tops off so that it no longer looks like a wave, but rather like the top of a castle. We can then further refine that castle-top line down to short or long tops so we can control our arc...all at 40,000-100,000 times a second. We have never had that ability before, but now can with digital inverters.

It works on both thick and thin steel because if you chop 1/3 of the tops of the waves off those electrical pulses, you also chop 1/3 of your heat out of the weldment. There is still plenty of arc to enable fusion of the steel and filler wire, but all the unnecessary heat is taken away. Take the unnecessary heat away, and you take away warpage and undercut!

Of course there is no free lunch, it comes at a slight price. With that ability to control the electricity, it can get a welder into some hot water by getting their settings WAY off. Trying to rein that back in can be a pain when things get really whacko on you.

Good stuff. I'm a Pulse/Twin Pulse guy. On twin pulse you can also adjust how wide the castles are and at what speed they change from the high side to the low ( controls heat as well ) and how many pulses per second. It's amazing what can be done with Mig in this level of equipment.

 

[newbury]

Plug in clocks,,,,,,,,,,,, who still has plug-in clocks, the only one I have are on the gas cook stove and my wife unplugs it every night. 50hz 60hz, there is no hz reading on my multi meter, I havent got HZ clue of what the HZ thats all about, if I get 120 volt reading on my muti meter then thats all the HZs I'm gonna worry about. I never heard all this hz stuff 40 years ago, I am going hz crazy, I heard that..........

POLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't even understand HZ now poles. I think the next generator I buy will be from HD, I'll bring it home, fire it up check for 119-120 volts, plug my micro and coffee maker in it and if I get coffee just like from the power company, it's a keeper, if not back to no hassle return HD it goes then on to the next brand.

Reads like you need to hire an electrician.

I am doing a video today for my welding students for Long Distance Learning, and talking about why pulse welding is becoming so popular. The whole topic is about what I said above, taking electricity and manipulating it.<snip>

How much does your course cost?
Could oldpath sign up?

 

[BrokenTrack]

How much does your course cost?
Could oldpath sign up?

Naaaa...no need, that is what we have this forum for. (LOL)

If a person has not had to manipulate electricity, then I do not expect them to know all the details of it.

As an example, I do not know a lot about computers, I do know when I push the X key, it is actually so many I's, and so many o's in digital code, but I do not need to know how the computer works to do that. It is the same with electricity.

 

[Oldpath05]

Reads like you need to hire an electrician.


How much does your course cost?
Could oldpath sign up?

Yes that would help but if my generator put out 118-120 volts instead of 114 that would solve most of my electrical problems when power goes out.

After 40 years of welding I'm not signing up for anymore welding, in three years I'm done. Most of my welding now is machine welding, I like making the machine do the work.