Generator question

[Sawyer Rob]

My little Honda inverter generator will run my microwave, no problem at all...

SR

 

[metalbender]

Bought a neat little gadget a few years ago, called Kill a Watt. Plug it in, gives volts, current, Hz. More features that I never used.

 

[Fallon]

Bought a neat little gadget a few years ago, called Kill a Watt. Plug it in, gives volts, current, Hz. More features that I never used.

Those are great for checking basic power quality stuff like this. Mostly designed to check power usage, but the frequency, voltage & PCF meters are super handy for checking generators. They make power strips as well, but those are missing some of the quality functions i believe.

 

[buickanddeere]

I finally decided to check the outlet voltage on my 20 year old 7000w Generac generator this past weekend while in middle of all day use. I knew it wasn't and never did put out 120v because it wouldn't run my microwave, toaster and coffee makers always took longer, I put the volt meter on outlet at the the generator and in house, the readings was 114-115 volts.

So I guess this summer it's time to update it to something that will put out 120 volts, on the assumption that they do make generators that does put out 120 volts, 119 probably would be close enough.

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PS I wonder if this is a ghost thread...................................

Sometimes a generator will make power that is "too dirty" for some electronic devices ,

 

[Oldpath05]

I dont suppose there's an easy explanation between dirty electricity vs clean electricity. I know the difference between 114 volts and 120 volts...........

 

[BukitCase]

"easy explanation between dirty electricity vs clean electricity"

Clean is less than around 5% THD (stands for Total Harmonic Distortion) - a fancy way of saying a more pure sine wave. Generally speaking, "normal" generators (non-inverter types) cost a few hundred$ more if they are "clean", but not always.

If you're shopping for a larger generator, any that ARE "clean" will almost always BRAG about it; phrases like "less than 5% THD", "clean power", "electronics safe", are the type of comments a seller will use. If they do NOT brag about it, that unit is almost guaranteed to NOT be "clean".

A lot of welders that have electronics are NOT waranteed if they were used with a "dirty" generator, the old buzz boxes could care less but won't run very hard unless the genny is LARGE.

Supposedly a few of the latest generation inverter welders are "tough enough" to not care about clean power, but most want less than 5% THD or warranty is void... Steve

 

[Diggin It]

I've seen user guides for battery backups and UPS's state specifically that the warranties are void if connected to a 'motor driven generator' and they don't mention exceptions for 'inverter generators'.

 

[BukitCase]

"they don't mention exceptions for 'inverter generators'."

There are at least two reasons that might be -
1 - The term "inverter" is generic - it only means that the device changes DC power to AC - I've seen some with a square wave output, others with a "trapezoidal" output (AKA "modified sine wave", a marketing term IMO)
2 - Warranty department is playing "CYA" and/or their "warranty" is in name only, til you try to collect... Steve

 

[BrokenTrack]

One nice feature/problem with the smaller generators, is their size. It sure helps moving them around, but the more mass you can get moving, the more that helps on sudden loads...like when the water pump kicks in.

When I have my tractor hooked to my PTO generator, it has a lot of weight (mass) flying around, and so when the water pump kicks on, it has a lot of kinetic energy in motion. That gives the governor time to kick in, and you do not even hardly notice that it had a high load there for a second. But with portable generators, they really lug down, and you get a moment of brown-out. Speed of the engine dictates frequency, and so that lower amount of frequency (hertz) is hard on the pump and the generator.

It is not really "clean power" in definition, but it has a lot to do with better quality power.

 

[RjCorazza]

I finally decided to check the outlet voltage on my 20 year old 7000w Generac generator this past weekend while in middle of all day use. I knew it wasn't and never did put out 120v because it wouldn't run my microwave, toaster and coffee makers always took longer, I put the volt meter on outlet at the the generator and in house, the readings was 114-115 volts.

So I guess this summer it's time to update it to something that will put out 120 volts, on the assumption that they do make generators that does put out 120 volts, 119 probably would be close enough.

View attachment 651159 View attachment 651158
PS I wonder if this is a ghost thread...................................

I had that same generator for 17 years. Easy starting and reliable. Late last year it fried some surge protectors in the house, and I found it was making 340v at the 220v plug and 170 on the 120 plugs.
I replaced the AVR without fixing the problem, and gave the generator to my electrician neighbor. In short order he found a bad connection on a wire coming from the AVR. It's back to purring like a kitten!

 

[Oldpath05]

I had that same generator for 17 years. Easy starting and reliable. Late last year it fried some surge protectors in the house, and I found it was making 340v at the 220v plug and 170 on the 120 plugs.
I replaced the AVR without fixing the problem, and gave the generator to my electrician neighbor. In short order he found a bad connection on a wire coming from the AVR. It's back to purring like a kitten!

Holy high power Batman that's making me nervous, just the opposite of my issue. Did you get a replacement?

 

[Oldpath05]

"easy explanation between dirty electricity vs clean electricity"

Clean is less than around 5% THD (stands for Total Harmonic Distortion) - a fancy way of saying a more pure sine wave. Generally speaking, "normal" generators (non-inverter types) cost a few hundred$ more if they are "clean", but not always.

If you're shopping for a larger generator, any that ARE "clean" will almost always BRAG about it; phrases like "less than 5% THD", "clean power", "electronics safe", are the type of comments a seller will use. If they do NOT brag about it, that unit is almost guaranteed to NOT be "clean".

A lot of welders that have electronics are NOT waranteed if they were used with a "dirty" generator, the old buzz boxes could care less but won't run very hard unless the genny is LARGE.

Supposedly a few of the latest generation inverter welders are "tough enough" to not care about clean power, but most want less than 5% THD or warranty is void... Steve

Thanks for that explanation, and nice to hear from you again. I am thinking of something like this from HF but I did notice the clean power thing, but it's in my price range and says 120 volts. 875 Watt Max Starting Gas Powered Generator - EPA III

 

[RjCorazza]

Holy high power Batman that's making me nervous, just the opposite of my issue. Did you get a replacement?

I have always wanted a pto generator, so I got a WinPower 15kw.
I really only posted to say that I got years of good service out of the Generac 7000exl, and now my neighbor will continue on with it.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Hows it do on the toaster or microwave? Be interesting to see what the volts are.

I'd say the the com is right up there with running water as necessity items so thats good.......

Sorry about so long in replying. Every thing works fine on the generator, LED lighting, microwave, toaster, internet (requires 110V to run), computers, hot water heater, etc.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I finally decided to check the outlet voltage on my 20 year old 7000w Generac generator this past weekend while in middle of all day use. I knew it wasn't and never did put out 120v because it wouldn't run my microwave, toaster and coffee makers always took longer, I put the volt meter on outlet at the the generator and in house, the readings was 114-115 volts.

So I guess this summer it's time to update it to something that will put out 120 volts, on the assumption that they do make generators that does put out 120 volts, 119 probably would be close enough.

View attachment 651159 View attachment 651158
PS I wonder if this is a ghost thread...................................

Even commercial power will fluctuate 115-120 V, nothing wrong with your genset. You could up the throttle setting a bit to compensate if you want to get it in the ball park. As for heating elements like coffee maker, just about any current would work for them. 5 volts shouldn't make much difference on speed of use on heating elements, motors would be a few RPM slower but not enough to notice without something really accurate measuring the RPM.

 

[Fallon]

Even commercial power will fluctuate 115-120 V, nothing wrong with your genset. You could up the throttle setting a bit to compensate if you want to get it in the ball park. As for heating elements like coffee maker, just about any current would work for them. 5 volts shouldn't make much difference on speed of use on heating elements, motors would be a few RPM slower but not enough to notice without something really accurate measuring the RPM.

Motors RPM is actually based on the frequency, not the voltage.

VFDs (variable frequency drives) to vary the speed of 3 phase motors for equipment change frequency, not voltage to speed up or slow dow their RPM. Really they are just variable frequency inverters.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've seen user guides for battery backups and UPS's state specifically that the warranties are void if connected to a 'motor driven generator' and they don't mention exceptions for 'inverter generators'.

Interesting... Have maybe 60 of them here... some sine wave UPS which cost a lot more.

All are one hospital back-up generator circuits and some for decades...no issues yet

 

[grsthegreat]

Interesting... Have maybe 60 of them here... some sine wave UPS which cost a lot more.

All are one hospital back-up generator circuits and some for decades...no issues yet

same here. Ive worked in hospitals and call centers with generators and the ups are there to keep things working until generator takes over. My cheap Costco ups units ...$90.00.... work flawlessly for 3 years now on my generator backed system.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Motors RPM is actually based on the frequency, not the voltage.

VFDs (variable frequency drives) to vary the speed of 3 phase motors for equipment change frequency, not voltage to speed up or slow dow their RPM. Really they are just variable frequency inverters.

That is true, but voltage and frequency kind of go hand in hand on a home generator. When you get the 60 hz, you will have the voltage within the 115-120 volt range. If his volts are low, frequency is likely off a bit also.
If you dont have anyway to check frequency, an electric clock will tell you if it is off since the regulate off frequency rather the voltage. If the clock runs fast then the frequency is low, if it runs slow then the frequency is too high. In other words at 50 hz there is only 50 seconds per minute.

 

[Fallon]

That is true, but voltage and frequency kind of go hand in hand on a home generator. When you get the 60 hz, you will have the voltage within the 115-120 volt range. If his volts are low, frequency is likely off a bit also.
If you dont have anyway to check frequency, an electric clock will tell you if it is off since the regulate off frequency rather the voltage. If the clock runs fast then the frequency is low, if it runs slow then the frequency is too high. In other words at 50 hz there is only 50 seconds per minute.

Power in Afganistan was 50hz. We had to reset clocks weekly or so. At a few minutes a day it doesnt typically show up for a quick test though.

At $35 a Kill A Watt is probably the easiest best bang for your buck option to check frequency. It does volts too. Amps, but that's only through the 1 outlet. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RGF29Q/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_QdDREbJW996VD