Generators, sizes and fuel options?

[i7win7]

We've seen some integration efforts in this thread, like the battery backup for pellet stove. It's a wonder to me that nobody markets a Stirling powered electricity-free pellet stove. A quick check did find one pellet boiler that has an optional Stirling engine generator.

Here is an electricity-free pellet stove

https://www.amazon.com/US-Stove-GW1949-Wiseway-Non-Electric/dp/B01CT69R5Q/ref=as_li_ss_tl?dchild=1&keywords=pellet+stove&qid=1605264986&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExT003OU1WVFdQRExYJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTEwNjIzMTEzU1lCUVU2TzBXOSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTcwOTAzM0pIOUk1NFYyVzlFNiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=&linkCode=sl1&tag=learnmetrics-20&linkId=229fc4b7d797676e34f1f265203820ca&language=en_US

This might also work

Stove Pellet Stove Wood and Pellet Stove - Etsy

This Fire Pits item by MoonMarket08 has 24 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Turkey. Listed on Dec 4, 2022

www.etsy.com

 

[dodge man]

An off the wall source is a car battery. I have an inverter you hook directly to a car battery when we had an aquarium and I was worried about the fish during outages. It’s pretty low power, maybe 750 watts but will power some small items. I have a Dodge Challenger I keep parked all winter and would pull the battery out of it if needed.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Lawnmower motor, GM alternator, a battery and an inverter - poor man's generator.

 

[newbury]

Another question - I started looking into parallel kits. As always I'm trying to save $$$.
Some mfg's are selling open frame inverter generators.
I presently own 2 "open frame" non-inverter generators in Virginia for my houses there. The noise is liveable with in an emergency.
The cost difference between open frame inverter and nice "quiet" enclosed inverter generators is significant.
For example Champion Power Equipment 100520 8750-Watt DH Series Open Frame Inverter is about $950. The Champion Model #100719 8500-Watt Inverter (quiet, enclosed) is about $2,300.
So I could purchase 2 of the open frame for the less than the cost of 1 quiet.
Now to find a parallel kit.
About the same could be done with 2 HF Predators.
/edit - and the question is does anyone know of parallel kits for that size generator?

 

[ponytug]

FWIW: we put in solar, and then a few years later added battery back up for outages. They have no issues pumping water (15kW sustained output, 21kW surge output). Switch overs are generally seamless, but under two scenarios when we need power the most, there isn't much solar power (nearby fires, with heavy smoke and extended overcast storms in wintertime.) So, we have generators, just in case.

I think that @Larry Caldwell's comments about being smart about how one integrates technology into running your daily life at home, and generally thinking bout the big picture is really good advice. E.g. insulating the house better cuts down in AC and heating loads, and having multiple ways to cook is just, well..., prudent.

One thing to be aware of for parallel kits is that most only get you 120V, unless you are looking at synchronizing kits, which are a little different, and take some operator smarts, at least in my opinion.

All the best,

Peter

 

[LittleBill21]

One thing to be aware of for parallel kits is that most only get you 120V, unless you are looking at synchronizing kits, which are a little different, and take some operator smarts, at least in my opinion.

parallel kits are nothing more then wiring, all the technology is in the inverter side of the generator, and as such if they are capable of 240v like the EU7000 series they will do 240.

synchronizing, kits I assume your talking about mechanical generators , where you watch phases with a light bulb and then lock them together via magnetism in the rotors, 99% of people are talking about the first options, the second one can literally be explosive.

 

[Patrick Herd]

Disclaimer: I live in 230/400V land so can't try myself, however I am an EE... I don't see why you couldn't make up your own 240V "parallel" unit for 2x 120V inverter generators (that support parallel operation) by using a 120/240V autotransformer or a 120:120 isolating transformer wired with the winding in series.

 

[newbury]

Further research turned up info pointing to
How to make an Inverter Generator Parallel Cable AKA Cable of Death
Predator 9500 Home Built 240V Parallel Kit Test & Build Parts: 2X Output Power Using Two Generators
and the best
DuroMax XP9000iH-PK 9000 Watt Closed Frame Inverter Parallel Cable Kit for $160

Plus according to Gavins Garage almost any brand parallel kit will work with any brand inverter generator.
Generator Parallel Kit Explained / use any brand Parallel kit with different brand 120v Generator

 

[LittleBill21]

Plus according to Gavins Garage almost any brand parallel kit will work with any brand inverter generator.
Generator Parallel Kit Explained / use any brand Parallel kit with different brand 120v Generator

Like I stated above, its nothing more then wiring. I use a westinghouse kit on a WEN branded generator setup and it works fine. a suicide cable will do the same thing.

 

[ponytug]

parallel kits are nothing more then wiring, all the technology is in the inverter side of the generator, and as such if they are capable of 240v like the EU7000 series they will do 240.

synchronizing, kits I assume your talking about mechanical generators , where you watch phases with a light bulb and then lock them together via magnetism in the rotors, 99% of people are talking about the first options, the second one can literally be explosive.

Thanks! I hadn't seen one for 240V before.

All the best,

Peter

 

[TheMan419]

A generator certainly needs to be integrated with your home tech. Some people can't even flush a toilet if they don't have electricity. Over time, you can integrate your home infrastructure more flexibly.

Yep. This is the key for even more than just the generator. One of the reasons we like the home we are in is it has the master suite on the first floor. So as we age if one of us cannot do the stairs we can remain in the home longer. A wheel chair would be a bit of an issue as there are three steps from the mud room up into the house. However there is plenty of room there to build a ramp if needed.

The prior home owner had mobility issues so there are already extra grab handles placed strategically. We are not taking those out.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

I am going to think about DUROMAX 9,000-Watt/7,600-Watt Dual Fuel Remote Start Inverter Generator with Portable Digital Parallel 50-State XP9000iH - The Home Depot

to be able to use propane without freezing the regulator? Thoughts?

Looked at the link and Q & A section, good reviews overall. Just remember you get what you pay for. Every manufacturer builds to a price point to sell to thier audience.

Personally, I would recommend building a small dedicated generator shed for a backup system and exhaust it to the outside with flexible tubing.
Use the airflow that is cooling the engine to blow across the LP tank sitting outside the shed.

Built a couple of these for customers in the past and it worked out for them.

Minimum tank size is important to the equation here. At 9,000 watt surge capacity, you are still in the 250 gallon tank size to run any length of time.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Looked at the link and Q & A section, good reviews overall. Just remember you get what you pay for. Every manufacturer builds to a price point to sell to thier audience.

Personally, I would recommend building a small dedicated generator shed for a backup system and exhaust it to the outside with flexible tubing.
Use the airflow that is cooling the engine to blow across the LP tank sitting outside the shed.

Built a couple of these for customers in the past and it worked out for them.

Minimum tank size is important to the equation here. At 9,000 watt surge capacity, you are still in the 250 gallon tank size to run any length of time.

I was hoping with it being an inverter I could do a smaller propane tank. Otherwise going to just use gas. I will borrow a 100# to try when it is cold out to see what will happen. Then if it works go that route. Otherwise gas can and a syphon from my Jeep…

 

[newbury]

I bought a Duromax 10Kw NON inverter back about 2010. Put it at my son's house in dense suburban Alexandria, Va. Within a few months some construction doofus with a backhoe cut the power lines to his area. They were without power for weeks. Since then it has been run occasionally, mainly to ensure it is ready.
Of note is they offer a parallel kit (XP9000iH-PK parallel kit) with a both 240V 30A and 50A outlet.
linky
/edit for their current XP9000iH Generator.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

It is better to set the generator closer to the propane source or to the plug to power the circuit? 30 feet between them

There are a few things to consider.

1. 3 phase electric cable is expensive, big & heavy, and gets stiff in the cold.
2. Propane hose for a generator is much cheaper, lighter, and smaller and won't seem as stiff in the cold. I have QC fittings on mine.
3. Noise diminishes with distance few generators are as quiet as they say they are. You don't want it on top of you
4. Exhaust fumes, are smelly and deadly. The generator needs to be in a well-ventilated area for your safety and to keep from overheating.

I have a 12KW unit with a 30' cord and I wish I could put it further away just due to the noise.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

I'd love to just move down south.

I'm on the Texas Gulf Coast and we hit 17'F for a couple of days with it not getting above freezing until 4 days later. Of course the next week it was 72'F , but there were a lot of burst pipes and very cold folks in the previous week.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

Yes, I had to Google it. Propane vaporization has to do with tank size and temperature.

it is misleading that they are called dual fuel then. They advertise using a 20 pound propane tank to run for 5 hours. Is that not possible? I guess?

Somewhere in the fine print it probably says 20LB tank will run for 5 hours at 60% load and 70'F. The difference between sales and marketing is that sales don't know they're lying.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

Lot's of timely info here. Few questions though.
I'm needing a generator or two also. Based on online calculators I figure 10KW would be the max I need, but often (for months) less than half that.
We run a lot of computer equipment and I've a whole house surge protector. I've fried an expensive dishwasher circuit board before I got the wh surge protector.

so Q1 - Would the surge protector work with a generator?
I was actually thinking of buying EVENTUALLY two ~7KW inverter generators. These would be more movable and several times my power has been on but my MIL's was out, thus I could loan a generator easily.

Q2 - Does anyone here run generators with a tri-fuel kit?
My generator of choice (Honda) only offers gasoline, but I've got LPG and natural gas is coming to my road.

Yes to both questions.

Surge protectors are common with RV users on the shore power cable. You can use the same cable and surge protector on a generator.

There are a (very) few gasoline/LP/NG units out there. I'm not aware of any diesel combo units.

 

[grsthegreat]

The ONLY time generator noise bothers me is when its completely quiet. That means generator has failed. And id be in the dark and cold.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

I am going to think about DUROMAX 9,000-Watt/7,600-Watt Dual Fuel Remote Start Inverter Generator with Portable Digital Parallel 50-State XP9000iH - The Home Depot

Maybe this will help.

I had a 6.5KW Duromax that threw a rod this past summer. I had run it only on propane and it was probably underpowered to run my RV trailer. I know I couldn't run both AC units with it.

Duromax gives a 3 years non-commercial warranty. Since I had bought it on Amazon it was easy to show when I had bought the unit.

They couldn't replace the unit because it was no longer in production. Instead, they cut me a check reimbursing me for the cost of the generator. It took a while to get the check, weeks even, but I was still stunned and amazed that they followed through.

They were not difficult to work with and I'd buy another one of their units when it comes time to.