Home electric problem / question help

[teg]

LD1, thanks... :thumbsup:

So I should be up at the farm around 7 pm after eating and setting things up... I'll post plenty of photos that night. We have several guest visiting for the first time so hopefully my wife can entertain them.

 

[Ford850]

I am guessing that there are several "ganged" light switch boxes, probably 3 or 4 switches in each one. The supply to the various lights are from different breakers, but inside the ganged switch boxes ALL the whites (neutrals) are wire nutted together.

That would do it, and only trip the breakers when certain lights were flipped on.

 

[CobyRupert]

I am guessing that there are several "ganged" light switch boxes, probably 3 or 4 switches in each one. The supply to the various lights are from different breakers, but inside the ganged switch boxes ALL the whites (neutrals) are wire nutted together.

:thumbsup:

 

[B7510HSD]

I had an issue in my old Manufactured home (actually new at the time) where we had one breaker that would trip constantly after about a year of this we had something plugged into an outlet and smelled electrical burning ended up being wires not being tight on the outlet and arching cut wires back and replaced outlet and never had a problem again...May want to check a few see if this may be your problem cheap fix!!

 

[Alesandro]

We have a new house at the farm, with new electrical service, 200 amp.

How new is this house and who did the electrical work? I ask because if this is new as in you barely moved in and this is happening, then if you paid an electrician to do the work they should do it as warranty. If you had the house designed by an Electrical contractor and you (you= you or any friend who did it on the side) wired it or you yourself wired it then there should still be some type of plans or wiring diagram the work was performed to that would have been submitted to the city or Authority Having Jurisdiction. With these plans you should be able to possibly see any unbalanced loads or other issues.

This being a new house, should be an easy one to track down.

 

[GLyford]

If the GFCI outlets are on a GFCI breaker, are they fighting each other? I thought they were subject to nuisance trips when "stacked".

Go to each of the outlets that "dies" and use one of these:

Klein Tools Digital Circuit Breaker Finder-ET3 - The Home Depot
or
Sperry Lan WireTracker Tone and Probe Wire Tracer-ET6422 - The Home Depot

or equivalent to see which breakers they are on?

The tone generator looks like it might be more useful for actually following wiring between outlet boxes, switch boxes, etc.

 

[teg]

How new is this house and who did the electrical work? ....

An old man most likely 80 y.o. give or take, it was not the builders' main guy... he should have been fired, we had LOTS of issues with the guy but you normally don't get the best people up there. I could go on but I would never have that first electrician back... ever!

 

[Budweiser John]

I've followed this thread from day one and from my thirty year plus experience in the building/remodeling industry, my suspetion relates to improper "wire nut" splices in the building wiring network.
Yes, wire nuts are used by the thousands and are recognized under the NEC. Looking back, electrical connections were soldered. Then came 'stake-ons', (copper splice barrels). And finally the ubicuas 'wire nut'. Problem is, simply stuffing two or more wires into a wire nut with a few wrist turns does not make a secure, permanent electrical connection.
I would investigate each outlet box and determine that the field splices and taps are all secure in addition to checking the tightness of all the screw connections on the devices.
A post or so ago, mention was made of a more senior guy doing the work and I'm not knocking senior workers as, I've reached that status myself but it leads pause to double check.
B. John

 

[Oldoak]

Most senior tradesmen that I know were craftsman and were meticulous when it came to detail. :thumbsup:

Some junior tradesmen had an attitude like "get this job done and move on to the next one just as quick as I can". :thumbdown:

 

[teg]

Post #14 goes into some details about the older Plumber/electrician... (and/or how bad our "code enforcer" is)... bottom line, he passed code but stuff was not connected (finished) I found wires not connected and plumbing not tied in.

...and I don't want the lowest bidder back to correct or fix the problems, I want it done correctly!

 

[teg]

I'm heading out for dinner but will be back on tonight... the blue check marks are the ones that trip the blue star, almost always trips. None of the rest trip. Inferred camera didn't show anything...


View attachment 509853


View attachment 509854

 

[Oldoak]

Now that makes a big difference. Not just common GFCI breakers.

Link to understanding AFCI and CAFCI breakers:

What is the difference between a CAFI and an AFI circuit breaker?

And I can tell you they are super sensitive.

 

[PILOON]

My house is on a site that the previous house burnt down.
Lightning strike was the cause but the ground rod had simply been laid under the sod on top of the bedrock.
I rebuilt on same site and can assure you my 2 rods are completely interred up to full penetration.
(LOL, lightening never strikes twice)
I'm not an electrician but very 'electric wise' LOL.
Did all the wiring myself signed off by a certified guy.
In many cases I exceeded 'code' like kitchen has some 8 breakers so the wife an connect as many appliances that she can find and not pop a breaker.
The 2 shops each have their own panels and are all wired 12 gauge.
I also have a generator panel that will not feed back for those all too often outages.
(reminder, must exercise the gen set)

 

[Alesandro]

I see Bed 1 and Bed 2 don't seem to have issues ( I wouldn't mess with the Firealarms, although they probably represent the simplest circuit). I would mark the actual breakers of Bed 1 and Bed 2 1st then move problem breakers into Bed 1 and Bed 2 slots. To see if those circuits start to have a problem with the known breakers that have problems. That would help to start rule out some components and possible wiring. If the un-marked breakers don't trip anymore in Bed 1 and Bed 2 slots, than that will tell you it's something on the circuits of the others. If the un-marked breakers do start to trip, then maybe you got a bad batch of breakers.

 

[buickanddeere]

Well casing makes an excellent ground. First of all, replace all GFCI , AFCI or combo GFCI/AFCI breakers ,receptacles or circuits to the fridge, freezer, microwave, furnace and sump pump with an ordinary breaker and commercial grade receptacle.

 

[CobyRupert]

Now that makes a big difference. Not just common GFCI breakers.

Link to understanding AFCI and CAFCI breakers:

What is the difference between a CAFI and an AFI circuit breaker?

And I can tell you they are super sensitive.

Well, not SUPER sensitive (3-5mA ground fault) like a GFCI, but as per your link:
"(2) The breaker detects a downstream current to ground in the range of 30-50ma or greater, regardless of the load."
All those white jumpers mean that if the white wires are also erroneously tied together in a multiple gang box elsewhere, as has been mentioned before, the breaker is sensing a difference in the hot current that goes out on the black wire versus the neutral current coming back on the white wire (because now there's multiple white wire paths) to the neutral bar. If this imbalance is over 30-50mA, ALL the breakers whose white wires are erroneously tied together will trip.
This is the OP's symptoms.
Check white wire connections in gang boxes.

 

[JRobyn]

JMHO, but with the known issues with AFCI being overly sensitive, I would replace all of those EXCEPT for the bedrooms (where they are now required by code) with GFCI, AND would use standard breakers (not AFCI or GFCI) unless the breaker feeds outdoor or "wet" areas.

 

[teg]

Little update: (I don't feel it's 100% figured out...) We have 7 people up here, showers, dishwasher going... NO breakers are tripping.

Will the one who said to pour water on the grounding rods... please pat yourself on your back. :drink: :dance1:


We had 4 inches of rain in a very short period of time... mini-mudslide and water deposited under our deck... 4-5" of nasty liquid. That's the only thing that's different... I used the "tester" mentioned before to check the outside outlets and they all said they were wired fine.

Plan now is to sink more grounding rods in the soil that stays moist... on the exposed side of the house. And plan to keep track of the breakers to see if this weekend was just a fluke. (electrical pun intended... sue me )

Now I need to let the mud dry up so I can removed it from under my covered deck...

 

[oldpilgrim]

You're welcome. Bad grounds can do weird things.

 

[spokane 1]

can I just have you check a few items by your main panel? since you have multi breakers dropping when Load increases. Remove the main panel lid and check to see if there is a wire leading from the white common bar to the bare copper ground bar.
and secondly there should be a copper or aluminum short leg installed in the ground bar to the panel itself that ground the panel. (some electricians forget to install this).
and you should have a bare copper #2 wire ground exiting the box heading outside to the ground rod.
then when all this is inspected and double checked for tightness.
go outside of the house where the main panel is......Look for a ground rod......this has a acorn nut with #2 bare copper from the main panel.. tighten this dam tight.

Your gfic circuits are not the problem....it is however a faulty ground. when the power load increases the power without a ground will reverse course back up the same load line it came down.
which ever circuit is completing a course in the main box will also be affected via the breaker bus bar.
electricity will back course heating all breakers. thus tripping

common hooks to ground and ground hooks to box..and #2 carry's ground to the ground rod...rod ground all to earth. some electricians also ground the plumbing. (but many homes have pex now)