Hose crimps

[BlacknTan]

I bought generic fittings for hose crimps. I now find that the folks that make up the hoses will only guarantee a fluid tight connection with the equipment they carry... Parker, Weatherhead, Aeroquip etc...with the hose they carry that is matching.. Apparently the crimping machine has settings and specific dimensions that must be met after crimping to insure leak free seals.

How have the folks that have bought fittings from online suppliers such as Discount Hydraulic Hose or others dealt with this problem?

 

[DieselPower]

Most fittings are made to be used with a specific set of crimping dies. If the shop does not have the correct dies or the hose that should be used with those fittings I probably wouldn't guarantee it either.

 

[kennyd]

I bought generic fittings for hose crimps. I now find that the folks that make up the hoses will only guarantee a fluid tight connection with the equipment they carry... Parker, Weatherhead, Aeroquip etc...with the hose they carry that is matching.. Apparently the crimping machine has settings and specific dimensions that must be met after crimping to insure leak free seals.

How have the folks that have bought fittings from online suppliers such as Discount Hydraulic Hose or others dealt with this problem?

Any REPUTABLE shop will not crimp mis-matched parts together for both safety, reliability, and liability reasons.

 

[jdfire]

I'm in the process of installing rear remotes and purchased all my fittings from Discount Hydraulics. I'm giving the resusable fittings a try so I can make up the hoses as I need them.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I own a hose shop. Not only would I not guarantee it, I wouldn't crimp it either. Do you bring eggs to a diner and ask them to cook them for you? If you want to save money, buy a hose crimper and crimp them yourself.
Now the big thing is the safety factor. Everybody makes a 100R2 hose which all have identical specs. However, there are huge differences between the inner and outer covers. You can crimp one brand on another successfully. And, you can crimp one brand on another and have the hose pull out of the crimp and kill you.
I may take some flack for this but I don't care. You try owning a business and have someone buy something somewhere else and ask you to make the final product on your thousands of dollars of equipment then when something goes wrong he wants to sue you for everything you have. And of course, because you really didn't do anything but crimp it, they don't think they should have to pay you a nickel for anything.
You can buy off the internet all you want. Where you gonna go when you have a problem? They employ phone temps for 8 bucks an hour. Try getting someone after 5 pm. Now try a Saturday? Ha! This is a big reason I have slowed down on posting here. Sure, there are a lot of hose shops out there that rip people off, but please don't paint with such a broad brush. Sorry for my rant but I have spent hundreds of hours giving advice here. Notice the only time you see the DHH guy is when he is giving his own company a shameless plug. I will put my knowledge and product quality against any internet hose seller out there. In business, you have 3 qualities. Speed, price, and quality. You can only have 2 of the three, this is a fact. You make the choice.
Andy

 

[DieselPower]

Good post Wayne and I'll take quality first when I can. I have seen what happens when the wrong end is put on the wrong hose, it's usually a messy end.

 

[BlacknTan]

I own a hose shop. Not only would I not guarantee it, I wouldn't crimp it either. Do you bring eggs to a diner and ask them to cook them for you? If you want to save money, buy a hose crimper and crimp them yourself.
Now the big thing is the safety factor. Everybody makes a 100R2 hose which all have identical specs. However, there are huge differences between the inner and outer covers. You can crimp one brand on another successfully. And, you can crimp one brand on another and have the hose pull out of the crimp and kill you.
I may take some flack for this but I don't care. You try owning a business and have someone buy something somewhere else and ask you to make the final product on your thousands of dollars of equipment then when something goes wrong he wants to sue you for everything you have. And of course, because you really didn't do anything but crimp it, they don't think they should have to pay you a nickel for anything.
You can buy off the internet all you want. Where you gonna go when you have a problem? They employ phone temps for 8 bucks an hour. Try getting someone after 5 pm. Now try a Saturday? Ha! This is a big reason I have slowed down on posting here. Sure, there are a lot of hose shops out there that rip people off, but please don't paint with such a broad brush. Sorry for my rant but I have spent hundreds of hours giving advice here. Notice the only time you see the DHH guy is when he is giving his own company a shameless plug. I will put my knowledge and product quality against any internet hose seller out there. In business, you have 3 qualities. Speed, price, and quality. You can only have 2 of the three, this is a fact. You make the choice.
Andy

All points well taken...

I'm a "hydraulic neophyte"... I thought by all the posts I read that I was doing the right thing. It seemed everyone, or many, were buying from DHH. I've seen thje recommendation many times here.
In my case, it wasn't the fact that I was saving money or convenience. I could peruse pictures of all the fittings I could possibly need, and end up with a clean looking install. I would never have access to the local hydraulic shop's "back room" to learn all about fittings.
So, live and learn! I know now much more than I did before... I guess the education was worth the price of a few fittings that I now will not use. I support local businesses as much as I possibly can. I also believe they stock better quality than much of what is on the internet. So, now that I know my layout, and what exactly it is that I need, a local hydraulics shop will make up my hoses with their hose, their fittings and on their machinery, utilizing their expertise!
Not a terribly expensive lesson I suppose! Education that's of any value always costs something..

As I said, live and learn! If I knew then what I know now, I would have done things differently...

And BTW.. This is not a slam on DHH or any other online supplier. The mistakes I made were completely my own!

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I may have been a bit harsh. I do apologize if anyone takes it that way.

You probably do have access to the hose shop's back room. Just ask! Countless times I have let people wander around and see what is on the shelves. I like taking the time to show people what is available. It's good business. It leads to future sales.

What many people do with DHH and the other internet shops is buy non-crimp fittings, pre-made hoses, or reusable hose ends and bulk hose. If you don't have a decent hose shop around or one that just wants to steal your money, I have no problem with buying off the internet. But just remember, we all have to eat. You also may be involved in a business that loses out to cheap inferior imports.

Also, Thanks Dieselpower. I appreciate it.

Thanks, Andy

 

[BlacknTan]

I may have been a bit harsh. I do apologize if anyone takes it that way.

You probably do have access to the hose shop's back room. Just ask! Countless times I have let people wander around and see what is on the shelves. I like taking the time to show people what is available. It's good business. It leads to future sales.

What many people do with DHH and the other internet shops is buy non-crimp fittings, pre-made hoses, or reusable hose ends and bulk hose. If you don't have a decent hose shop around or one that just wants to steal your money, I have no problem with buying off the internet. But just remember, we all have to eat. You also may be involved in a business that loses out to cheap inferior imports.

Also, Thanks Dieselpower. I appreciate it.

Thanks, Andy

Not harsh, real world.. I can take that when I'm wrong.

This was my fault entirely. I could have bought complete hoses off the internet and would have been OK.. I just was not aware..
In a way, it worked out well. I'll end up with quality American hose and fittings... The way I always want things.. And done by a local business.

All's well that ends well... I got an education!

 

[Eric_Phillips]

BlacknTan,
You might be able to talk with DHH to work something out with the fittings you bought. They do make custom hose assemblies for $10-$12 over the cost of the materials. When I started my first hydraulic project this spring I took Andy's advice and sought out a local hydraulic store. They were very pleasant and helpful which I am willing to pay some money for. Their prices for fittings were competitive with what I could do online but when it came to hose and hose ends they were about 3x the cost for materials and they charged a crimping fee. For one off need in a hurry hose I could afford that but for adding new remotes I need something a little cheaper. Also know that just because you can't see the back room doesn't mean you can't ask for what you want. I wanted R16 hose and my local shop said they only stock R2 but they were willing to order the hose it just wasn't going to happen that day like they can do with R2 hose. I also believe there is every fitting combination out there. From looking at several catalogs and online stores it seems like everything imaginable is made your just need to find a supplier that carries it. So just because you don't see it on a shelf I would still ask to see if it can be had.

 

[BlacknTan]

I've spoken to the tech at DHH.

They're good people, and as helpful as they can be. They reiterated that they could also not guarantee a job with fittings from others. I can understand that completely! I have zero problem with the frolks from DHH.. I guess my problem stemmed from the fact of my inexperience, and the idea that I was worried about the orientation of fittings on both ends of the hoses. I also just came to the realization of the difficulties in cutting the hoses to length without the proper equipment.. Maybe I did not give the whole question of hydraulics the respect it obviously deserves.

I'm only pointing a pitfall that I ran into. Perhaps if after reading the million posts that I read before embarking on this job, I would have done things a bit differently...

I guess the old adage applies here... "Too soon old, too late schmart..." Or.. "If I knew then what I know now..."

It's been a good learning experience...

 

[kennyd]

What a great attitude BnT, I applaud your outlook. If more people in this world would take responsibility and not blame others it would be a better place to live.

 

[IceStationZebra]

I work for an off-road OEM (and previouly worked for CaseIH, Hyster/Yale, Lull/SkyTrak) and whole-heartedly agree that you should not mix brands when dealing with hose ends and hose. Even within one vendor's products (Parker for instance) you have to match a particular hose with one or two series of hose ends.

On the other hand I am much less fanatical about the crimper --- as long as you can guarentee the correct crimp dimension --- which depends on the crimper design. Some crimp to a pre-set dimension while some are variable.

ISZ

 

[Discount Hydraulic Hose]

I'll start by saying I work at Discount Hydraulic Hose. Some of you have probably talked to me if you've done business with us.

The two most obvious critical issues when selecting hose and fittings is (a) using the right fighting with the right hose, and (b) crimping that fitting to the correct dimensions according to the fitting manufacturer.

We've been making hoses here for decades, and we don't have a problem interchanging brands of hose as long as both hoses meet the same industry-standard SAE specifications. For example, you can swap SAE 100R2AT hose from one manufacturer for SAE 100R2AT hose from another company without a problem. As long as you use the correct crimp specifications, you'll be fine. If you change to a hose that meets a different SAE specification or a special "brand exclusive" that isn't made to SAE specifications at all, you'll need to make adjustments. Often these hoses handle higher working pressures or have special features like tougher covers, etc. If you're using one of these special hoses, you are best to stay with the same manufacturer's fittings because SAE specifications do not apply.

Of course, the fittings are not right if they aren't crimped properly. A fitting crimped on SAE 100R2AT hose will require a different crimp diameter than the same fitting crimped on a SAE 100R16 hose. You should always consult the manufacturer's catalog or product literature to determine the right crimp diameter for the fitting and the hose you are using.

If you have an adjustable crimper like the ones we sell, you can dial in the precise crimp diameter for the hose and fitting you are using. Our D100, D165 and D205 adjustable hose crimpers can be set to precise increments as small as one/tenth of a millimeter, so you have a lot of flexibility to crimp fittings from a variety of manufacturers.

If you have a non-adjustable crimper, like many of the Parker and Weatherhead models, you have fewer options. You can only set your crimper to preset diameters, so it's best to use fittings from the same manufacturer, or fittings that you know are interchangeable. Many fittings are NOT interchangeable, so if you're unsure, ask before you buy.

For the record, Braided Hose Fittings are interchangeable with Weatherhead U Series. The are definitely not interchangeable with Parker fittings.

Most of our other fittings (W Series, JJ Series, etc) are not interchangeable with other manufacturers. You need to have an adjustable crimper that you can set to the correct crimp diameter in order to use these other fittings.

I hope this clears up any remaining confusion.

Ken Hutchinson

 

[wedge40]

We've been making hoses here for decades, and we don't have a problem interchanging brands of hose as long as both hoses meet the same industry-standard SAE specifications. For example, you can swap SAE 100R2AT hose from one manufacturer for SAE 100R2AT hose from another company without a problem. As long as you use the correct crimp specifications, you'll be fine. If you change to a hose that meets a different SAE specification or a special "brand exclusive" that isn't made to SAE specifications at all, you'll need to make adjustments. Often these hoses handle higher working pressures or have special features like tougher covers, etc. If you're using one of these special hoses, you are best to stay with the same manufacturer's fittings because SAE specifications do not apply.

Of course, the fittings are not right if they aren't crimped properly. A fitting crimped on SAE 100R2AT hose will require a different crimp diameter than the same fitting crimped on a SAE 100R16 hose. You should always consult the manufacturer's catalog or product literature to determine the right crimp diameter for the fitting and the hose you are using.

I'm guessing this may be deleted.
But you brought up a point I've made many times about crimping hoses. They are manufactured to SAE standard and knowing that you should be able to mix and match knowing these standards. I get real tired of people who think making hydraulic hoses is some sort of rocket science left to the experts and you are charged accordingly.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious so eloquently.


Wedge

 

[Wayne County Hose]

The two most obvious critical issues when selecting hose and fittings is (a) using the right fighting with the right hose, and (b) crimping that fitting to the correct dimensions according to the fitting manufacturer.[/

About the only correct part of his whole post.

You should always consult the manufacturer's catalog or product literature to determine the right crimp diameter for the fitting and the hose you are using.

You forgot the part in the manufacturers catalog which states to never mix and match manufacturers hose and crimp fittings.

If you have an adjustable crimper like the ones we sell at Discount Hydraulic Hose, you can dial in the precise crimp diameter for the hose and fitting you are using. Our D100, D165 and D205 adjustable hose crimpers can be set to precise increments as small as one/tenth of a millimeter, so you have a lot of flexibility to crimp fittings from a variety of manufacturers.

Thanks for proving my point in my earlier post. Another shameless plug. I thought advertisers had to pay to post info like this?

If you have a non-adjustable crimper, like many of the Parker and Weatherhead models, you have fewer options. You can only set your crimper to preset diameters, so it's best to use fittings from the same manufacturer, or fittings that you know are interchangeable. Many fittings are NOT interchangeable, so if you're unsure, ask before you buy.

Umm. We do have many options. Like crimping hoses that won't explode on people.

For the record, Braided Hose Fittings from Discount Hydraulic Hose.com are interchangeable with Weatherhead U Series. The are definitely not interchangeable with Parker fittings.

So says DHH. Weatherhead says no. Who is a bigger name in hydraulics and who is a more trusted name in hoses? Need I even ask?

Most of our other fittings (W Series, JJ Series, etc) are not interchangeable with other manufacturers. You need to have an adjustable crimper that you can set to the correct crimp diameter in order to use these other fittings.

I hope this clears up any remaining confusion. If anyone has additional questions, feel free to ask them here or (for a quicker response) send an email to support@discounthydraulichose.com. Someone in our customer service dept. will be glad to assist you.

Ken Hutchinson
Discount Hydraulic Hose.com
800-535-1302 or 215-744-2828

I guess he feels that Jesus himself has spoken.

 

[wedge40]

And the rocket scientist has chimed in.
I would like to hear from ANYONE who has had DHH hose "bust", not leak, but actually blow apart. I'm guessing if this were a common event for DHH they wouldn't have been in the buisness for over 30yrs. And how many Parker or what ever hoses bust on a daily basis. Especially with stuff that is using 3000psi or less.




Wedge

 

[Wayne County Hose]

And the rocket scientist has chimed in.
I would like to hear from ANYONE who has had DHH hose "bust", not leak, but actually blow apart. I'm guessing if this were a common event for DHH they wouldn't have been in the buisness for over 30yrs. And how many Parker or what ever hoses bust on a daily basis. Especially with stuff that is using 3000psi or less.




Wedge

Nope. Not a rocket scientist. Just another idiot on this big rock revolving around the sun trying to put food on my family's table. In my shop I have multiple hoses that "busted" from putting one makers crimp on another's hose. Yes, these hoses blew apart and swung around like a whip. Maybe not DHH product, but even better name brand stuff. And yes, when you do mix manufacturers products, this is a common event. This comes from Weatherhead who has been in business a bit longer than 30 years.

 

[BlacknTan]

Ya' know... I didn't start this thread to bash anyone, and I hope that it doesn't end up in a melee!
I merely wanted to point up some of the pitfalls involved in a project like adding remote hydraulics.. a subject that i see many neophytes such as myself have undertaken. I wish when I was doing the hours of research for this project that I had read a thread that pointed up the myriad of hoses and fittings, and all that's involved in crimping them to get tight, and most importantly, safe connections.

They say that "Knowledge is Power" and, if that's true, I'm just a bit more powerful on the subject than I was before..

I wasn't entirely sure of the parts I wanted or needed, so in my case at least, I would have been better off dealing with my local hydraulics shop, where I could have picked the counter man's brains to my heart's content.. For those that have more experience and knowledge than I, the avenue of ordering online might be just fine...

I have no problem with anyone, so please, no personal attacks.

 

[wedge40]

what I have learned from these hydraulic conversations is when it comes to SAE standards and hydraulics they dont mean squat. And from this I should take all SAE standard with a grain of salt.

Sorry didn't mean to make this a bashing session, but again I haven't heard from anyone other than one person (another hydraulic shop) about busted hoses.
Wedge