HOW MUCH COUNTER WEIGHT DO I NEED?

Brimfield · Sep 26, 2015

I was out today moving some green split red oak today with my Kubota L3800. I had the bright idea or so I thought of putting it on skids with skids for the sides and back for portable firewood storage. I went to lift a skid and it would not lift it and the rear tires were coming up. I went with a half skid and I was moving it when I noticed the rear tire was coming up. I should add that I have rim guard in the back tires and that I have clamp on forks. Right now I have the tractor only, no back hoe or snow blower. Is the snow blower enough counter weight or what? Never had any idea wood was so heavy.

vtsnowedin · Sep 26, 2015

Ayup! green wood is about two ton to the cord and is not to be taken lightly. Your backhoe on the back should be enough but most other implements that you might name do not weigh enough. A ballast block or box that weighs about 80 percent of what your three point hitch can lift lets you max out what you can lift safely with the loader. The owners manual for your loader should have the figures you need.

BoylermanCT · Sep 26, 2015

I stack my firewood on pallets, but since it is so heavy, I don't fill them up as full as possible. I put about 1/3 cord per pallet. As Vtsnowedin said, unseasoned hardwood firewood weighs about 4000 lbs per cord. So 1/3 cord is 1300 lbs or so. My Montana 2844 can lift 2400 lbs to 5' high, but I also need to keep the rear end on the ground. I currently use my rototiller as weight. It weighs 600 lbs. I'm currently looking for a used ballast box that will weigh 750 lbs or so. I don't like dragging around an expensive attachment that might get damaged if I back into something by accident.

RoyJackson · Sep 26, 2015

I'd be a bit leery of lifting that much weight with clamp on forks, even with adequate rear ballast.
Two reasons:
You're putting that weight way out front of your tractor...more stress on the front axle and loader (make sure your front tires are inflated to the maximum!)
Clamp on forks means your bucket is now part of the load rather then part of the tool. Also, might bend your bucket...

4570Man · Sep 26, 2015

Wood is pretty heavy and to make things worse the load it a LONG way from the bucket pins. Your loader lifts about 1200 pounds, but considerably less that far forward. I would want 1,000 pounds of ballast plus the loaded tires, but that's overkill.

k0ua · Sep 26, 2015

You need at least 750 lbs on the 3pt, depending how far it sticks out the back.. Might get by with a little less using a long rotary cutter. but 750 lbs in the form of a close coupled ballast would be about a minimum.. More would not hurt. Your loaded tires are helping, but it is not enough on their own, as you have found out.

s219 · Sep 26, 2015

Yeah, clamp on forks are a bit of a handicap -- they reduce your capacity quite a bit.

As far as ballast, remember that the loaded tires really just counteract the loader itself. For cargo in the loader, you need additional ballast.

coobie · Sep 28, 2015

RoyJackson said:
I'd be a bit leery of lifting that much weight with clamp on forks, even with adequate rear ballast.
Two reasons:
You're putting that weight way out front of your tractor...more stress on the front axle and loader (make sure your front tires are inflated to the maximum!)
Clamp on forks means your bucket is now part of the load rather then part of the tool. Also, might bend your bucket...

++ 1 on what Roy said.I burn wood pellets a skid weighs 2 tons.I have rim guard in the rear tires plus I use 1000 lbs rear ballast box.

redman135 · Sep 28, 2015

Can someone explain the "clamp on fork" that is being referred to please?

vtsnowedin · Sep 28, 2015

redman135 said:
Can someone explain the "clamp on fork" that is being referred to please?

Load-Quip Steel Bucket Forks — 1400-Lb. Capacity, Green, Model# 29211777 | Bucket Accessories| Northern Tool + Equipment
A picture is worth a thousand words.

LD1 · Sep 28, 2015

Assuming standard 42x48 pallets, thats about 1/5 of a cord. Roughly 750# depending on wood species and moisture content.

Then add 4 pallets at ~30-40# each, so you are trying to lift 900# a good ways in front of the loader bucket.

Loader has plenty of strength to do it. Should be able to lift ~1100# on clamp on forks, but you DO need ballast.

I have a 700# rear blade that does stick back pretty far. It has about the same effect as my 1000# barrel filled with concrete. Both of those are sufficient to max loader capacity, but only going slow and on level ground. It is still possible to become light in the rear on uneven terrain or slowing down. There is no way I would want any less than that on the back.

I have a 1100# bushhog that sticks back really far. THAT, will keep the rears on the ground no matter what. Downhill on my grave drive in 2wd with a 1000# boiler firebox on the pallet forks was no issue. (I didnt do that on purpose. I though it was in 4wd. Didnt realize it til after I dropped the boiler off and was pulling back out onto the road, I went to shift back into 2wd and realized it already was)

So, IMO, if your ground is flat, you want at least 1000# if in tight like a ballast box. IF hilly, you want more, or farther back.

k0ua · Sep 28, 2015

I know there are times I wish I had more. And that is with loaded tires too.

redman135 · Sep 28, 2015

Hello vtsnowedin, the link explained everything. I had never seen or heard of clamp on forks before. Thank you.

4570Man · Sep 28, 2015

His loader only lifts 850 pounds at 500 mm ( 19.5 inches ) from the pins. There is no way it will lift 1100 pounds on an evenly loaded pallet on clamp on forks.

vtsnowedin · Sep 28, 2015

redman135 said:
Hello vtsnowedin, the link explained everything. I had never seen or heard of clamp on forks before. Thank you.

Thanks for the reply. That is the most positive thing I have done today.

Buggs67 · Sep 28, 2015

I might be out of line but to lift pallets of firewood wouldn't the fork attachment on the 3 point work well?

CountyLine Carry All - For Life Out Here

LD1 · Sep 28, 2015

4570Man said:
His loader only lifts 850 pounds at 500 mm ( 19.5 inches ) from the pins. There is no way it will lift 1100 pounds on an evenly loaded pallet on clamp on forks.

Yes it will. I've done it. The loaders are rated to max lift height, and even that is a tad underrated IMO.

4570Man · Sep 28, 2015

LD1 said:
Yes it will. I've done it. The loaders are rated to max lift height, and even that is a tad underrated IMO.

You have lifted a 1100 pound evenly loaded pallet with clamp on forks with a la524 loader? I agree they are underrated, but I didn't think it was that bad. My la724 loader can probably lift 2,000 pounds with SSQA forks. The heaviest measurable load it lifted was 100 ten inch concrete pavers.

LD1 · Sep 28, 2015

Yes. Well...it's predecessor... The la463 loader on my l3400.

Just moved some concrete slabs two days ago with my homemade clamp on forks. Wish I had taken a pic. Largest one was about 5'x6' at 4" thick. That's about 1500#. It wouldn't curl much past level, but had no issue lifting about 2' high. No need to lift any higher. That took 2500psi to lift. My relief is set at 2650. Factory is 2400+/-. So factory setup might not have lifted it, but would have lifted 1100 no problem.

I also loaded a pallet into my truck (about 4' high) that had 14 bags of mortat at 75# each+ pallet. So a good 1100# there. Pallet was long ways so mortar was 3 rows out front of the loader. I consolidated so it only stuck out two rows, or about 32" so it wasn't 100% even distribution. Lifting to 4-5' high took about 2300psi, but at ground level was much less.

Remember, published spec is at max height. If you look in your Kubota manual, there is a nice graph that shows lift capacity vs distance. You loose capacity the higher you go. IIRC at ground level it says I can lift 2200 at the pins vs the max height of 1150 that is published.

That's why we often see threads of people lifting near max that can only lift a few feet before it stalls.

And of course there are other tricks if you just need to barley clear the ground to move something by using curl and lift.

Bottom line, the op's picture is no problem with clamp on forks. The loader is plenty strong with proper ballast.