I can't believe they did it !

[2LaneCruzer]

2lane, he got 20 years !

click on the link..

I read "2" years and missed the 20 in the text. You're correct.

 

[Atchuuu]

So if a man shoves you to the ground and that is not self defense then what chance do you have to claim self defense if someone is just stealing items from your car?

Again, I hope I am never in this position and sure wouldn't want the outcome dependent on 12 peers. This thread alone shows how varied the opinions on this subject are.

 

[paulfun9]

So if a man shoves you to the ground and that is not self defense then what chance do you have to claim self defense if someone is just stealing items from your car?

Again, I hope I am never in this position and sure wouldn't want the outcome dependent on 12 peers. This thread alone shows how varied the opinions on this subject are.

If your a permit to carry you simply don’t go looking for trouble like this guy did. He was most likely in a heated state of mind and would be considered the aggressor from the point of view of the father, husband or whatever the dead man was. His actions would most likely be the ones considered as self or defense of family.
We must understand that without actual court documents and or witness statements we are all guessing about a lot of what happened.
The one thing that stands out is he had no gun, pushed him down and then walked away from him. The outcome of the trial would be very different if he had stayed on him and started to beat him. Problem is he walked away meaning the treat is no longer a threat.

I must agree that this guy was looking for trouble and found it! He overstepped his bounds as it is not his job to be the parking police, he did not even have a handicap permit for his own vehicle and if it really bugged him he should have called the police via a number besides 911.
True justice here would be he got his butt beat down for being an overzealous a-hole but instead since he is one who thinks he is always righteous and concealed carrying without the common sense god gave most 3rd graders we have a man shot down over a parking dispute that should have never escalated!

 

[paulfun9]

I've worried about this type of thing for a while now. I've been burglarized before, but not at our new house and each time was just riffling through our cars, nothing big. So recently I asked my neighbor about what he would do.

My neighbor is an Iraq veteran, Green Beret, and a higher ranking (can't remember and won't post his actual title) police officer. My initial plans have always been to run and get him. But he told me some sobering realities on home invasion:

1) Its almost always related to drugs. Drugs, drug money, drug weapons, etc.
2) His first and most important weapon in the house is his cell phone.
3) In the event of a home invasion; he would call 911, gather his family together behind a locked door, and only threaten an intruder if they were trying to get to him through that door.
4) Most people who are shot during a home invasion are the occupants loved ones.

Me - If someone was on my property, inside or out, I'd take a similar approach sans me being behind a locked door. Wife would be locked away with our dogs. I would go out, confront intruder and let them know the cops are coming. If they attack me, I'd try to string it out until the cops arrive to witness it. Simple as that. I'm a big target and can put up a fight. I'd be exceptionally loud too. You see, I could not live with myself if I shot a kid or got locked in a legal battle in which the scum-bag wins. But I'll gladly take a beating in order for them to get locked up. Knife or bullet wound? Not excited about it, but stand by my plan.

Wife might not agree to all of that though...

I won稚 argue with what he wants to do because it痴 his life but I will say that that is one police officer I would have no confidence in for anything what so ever!
When I spoke of picking up the pieces of a young girls life who had been raped, I was referring to a family member who used to be married to a pathetic man that had the same ridiculous plan.

 

[kenmac]

So if a man shoves you to the ground and that is not self defense then what chance do you have to claim self defense if someone is just stealing items from your car?

Again, I hope I am never in this position and sure wouldn't want the outcome dependent on 12 peers. This thread alone shows how varied the opinions on this subject are.

I believe the man got 20 yrs because of the other man's race. The people didn't want their town burned to the ground by thugs, Had the white man been found not guilty

Just because someone says something to you, it gives you no right to put your hands on them.

You put your hands on someone, and you are open game.

Best to keep your hands to yourself, and you won't be shot.
Guess this guy found this out the hard way

 

[Sigarms]

I believe the man got 20 yrs because of the other man's race. The people didn't want their town burned to the ground by thugs, Had the white man been found not guilty

The man got 20 years for manslaughter because he had a temper, carried a gun and HE put himself in the position where he felt he needed to use that gun when all he had to do was keep his mouth shut and nothing would of happened. It also didn't help the mans case that he was shown to get into the same type of confrontration at the exact same parking space previously.

That said, all things considered with what he got nailed with, no way he'll serve the full sentence.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

So if a man shoves you to the ground and that is not self defense then what chance do you have to claim self defense if someone is just stealing items from your car?

Again, I hope I am never in this position and sure wouldn't want the outcome dependent on 12 peers. This thread alone shows how varied the opinions on this subject are.

Keep in mind, the amount of force you can use must be "reasonable" under the circumstances. Under common law, if someone breaks into your house at night and you are home, it was assumed they were there to do you harm and using deadly force was considered reasonable. Shooting someone for pushing you down, does not seem reasonable...at least the jury didn't think so. It helps if you believe they are going to do you great bodily harm, and be able to show a jury why you believed that.

 

[Sigarms]

Shooting someone for pushing you down, does not seem reasonable...at least the jury didn't think so. It helps if you believe they are going to do you great bodily harm, and be able to show a jury why you believed that.

The question becomes why did the person "push you down" to begin with?

Ultimately, two wrongs do not make a right. One man is dead for his actions and another in jail probably for at least 10 years, so there are no "winners" at all in this case.

35 years ago I was pissed off at the amount of cars that would almost hit me running on rural roads. My mom told me something I'll never forget, that being the cemetary is full of people who were right who didn't need to die.

I made a mistake carrying a gun a long time ago with another idiot car driver. I made a comment that escalated the situation. I walked away thinking I was a stupid idiot for saying my mind because I had a gun. Carry a gun, keep your mouth shut. Rule 1.

 

[two_bit_score]

The question becomes why did the person "push you down" to begin with?

Ultimately, two wrongs do not make a right. One man is dead for his actions and another in jail probably for at least 10 years, so there are no "winners" at all in this case.

35 years ago I was pissed off at the amount of cars that would almost hit me running on rural roads. My mom told me something I'll never forget, that being the cemetary is full of people who were right who didn't need to die.

I made a mistake carrying a gun a long time ago with another idiot car driver. I made a comment that escalated the situation. I walked away thinking I was a stupid idiot for saying my mind because I had a gun. Carry a gun, keep your mouth shut. Rule 1.

Mine used fewer words: You can be right and you can be dead right.




It's always the quiet guys you have to watch closely.




TBS

 

[chas0218]

If you call 911 first reporting someone trespassing, keep in mind that if you head out to investigate on your own that police are (or should be) coming. If you are armed, how will that appear to those arriving ?
New York's take on Castle stinks. No defending property, and you need to take every avenue of retreat before defending. I'd really rather not have to defend myself in a corner.

Yup, it's ridiculous. Criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens in NY. All because of that arm pit of the world NYC.