Is the ROPS really needed?

[Parkanzky]

Truly a sad story indeed. And not to make light of the situation, but guessing some operator error was in play? Mowing when too wet? or mowing on too steep of a grade right next to a pond?

Of course some kind of operator error played a part. But probably not an error that most people on here hasn't made at least once or twice (driving their tractor on a bit of a slope, driving on wet and lumpy terrain, etc.).

It's human nature to assign negligence to the operator in a case like this because we want to feel like we're smarter, more skilled, better prepared, etc. and that this can't happen to us. I don't think that's wise thinking.

 

[DarkBlack]

Of course some kind of operator error played a part. But probably not an error that most people on here hasn't made at least once or twice (driving their tractor on a bit of a slope, driving on wet and lumpy terrain, etc.).

It's human nature to assign negligence to the operator in a case like this because we want to feel like we're smarter, more skilled, better prepared, etc. and that this can't happen to us. I don't think that's wise thinking.

I have to disagree.
'skill' and 'experience' are traits that promoted people, and also kept them alive. It's the part of a persons brain that kept them alive and allowed them to be valued and payed higher by their employer.
Your view is the modern 'someone elses fault' view, that I highly disagree with.

 

[Rocky Hoffler]

Anybody remember this OSHA approved cowboywww.sam-hane.com/sass/oshacowb.htm







THE OSHA COWBOY.

 

[Parkanzky]

I have to disagree.
'skill' and 'experience' are traits that promoted people, and also kept them alive. It's the part of a persons brain that kept them alive and allowed them to be valued and payed higher by their employer.
Your view is the modern 'someone elses fault' view, that I highly disagree with.

Not at all. I'm not saying it's not his fault. While tragic, it absolutely was his doing. I'm saying that the gentleman that died may have been very skilled and experienced. Your hubris won't have served you well if you ever find yourself in a similar situation.

 

[ray66v]

Considered all the factors as to whether or not you use a ROPS? Your land should not be the only factor in deciding that.

Apparently, disgraced, convicted, ex-congressman Traficant (D,OH), rolled his tractor over, putting it in the barn?

Ex-congressman James Traficant dies at 73

 

[yelbike]

Did I read properly, the mower had a seat belt but no rops? Seems like a weird combination.

 

[DarkBlack]

Not at all. I'm not saying it's not his fault. While tragic, it absolutely was his doing. I'm saying that the gentleman that died may have been very skilled and experienced. Your hubris won't have served you well if you ever find yourself in a similar situation.

Not really what I said. I guess you missed the part about the ROPS hooking trees in the woods being the most scary moments.

 

[yelbike]

Truly a sad story indeed. And not to make light of the situation, but guessing some operator error was in play? Mowing when too wet? or mowing on too steep of a grade right next to a pond?

It doesnt matter how many safety features are put on a machine, or how idiot proof it is, there will always be someone get hurt or killed.

Not sure about the laws of ROPS on zeroturns, but I am pretty sure a company like Bob-cat is in compliance with the law. That, with all the other safety features and several pages in the manual about safety, I think a lawsuit chances are nil.

I have been around equipment most of my life, and been around TBN for quite awhile now. When regarding safety features and such, it seems about everyone can be lumped into 2 groups.

Group 1: Those that feel that there are far too many safety devices already on machines, BUT, understand their purposes, and if they impede our operation of the machines, have the knowledge to modify them the way we see fit (if needed at all), and understand any and all consequences of our actions.

Group 2: Those who feel nothing should ever be done to any safety devices, feel there arent enough safety features, and feel the need to blame everyone else if something goes wrong, cause they feel no matter what they do or where they go with their machine, it shouldnt be capable of hurting them, because they dont have the common sense to know any better. Therefore we enlist the govt to try to idiot-proof everything in life.

One of my favorite sayings is "If we would remove all the safety devices and warning labels off everything, stupidity would cure itself".

OSHA is there to protect employees from being forced to do unsafe things by their employer, or to operate unsafe equipment. When it comes to private individuals like myself, OSHA has no jurisdiction. I can do what I want including removing the safety features which manufactures are forced to install, cause they dont know weather a I, or an employer is going to buy the machine. Same goes for a "shop" modifying the rops for a private individuals tractor. Even if that "shop" were in the USA, OSHA has no jurisdiction.

LD1, I don't know if I've agreed more with one of your previous post. You hit the nail on the head.

BTW, I had the rops modified one my jd2305 to be made folding. I can weld but literally will not put my life at risk of my welding skills. I local certified welder/custom builder did my modification for me. Price was $180 cash or $400 with a certificate, job was the same. I saved $220 that day

Has anyone ever considered adding rops to a jd z465.

 

[LD1]

My seat switch is bypassed also. I like to be able to stand up and stretch, or lean out of the way of briars when bushhogging

 

[WaxMan]

Truly a sad story indeed. And not to make light of the situation, but guessing some operator error was in play? Mowing when too wet? or mowing on too steep of a grade right next to a pond?

It doesnt matter how many safety features are put on a machine, or how idiot proof it is, there will always be someone get hurt or killed.

Not sure about the laws of ROPS on zeroturns, but I am pretty sure a company like Bob-cat is in compliance with the law. That, with all the other safety features and several pages in the manual about safety, I think a lawsuit chances are nil.

I have been around equipment most of my life, and been around TBN for quite awhile now. When regarding safety features and such, it seems about everyone can be lumped into 2 groups.

Group 1: Those that feel that there are far too many safety devices already on machines, BUT, understand their purposes, and if they impede our operation of the machines, have the knowledge to modify them the way we see fit (if needed at all), and understand any and all consequences of our actions.

Group 2: Those who feel nothing should ever be done to any safety devices, feel there arent enough safety features, and feel the need to blame everyone else if something goes wrong, cause they feel no matter what they do or where they go with their machine, it shouldnt be capable of hurting them, because they dont have the common sense to know any better. Therefore we enlist the govt to try to idiot-proof everything in life.

One of my favorite sayings is "If we would remove all the safety devices and warning labels off everything, stupidity would cure itself".

OSHA is there to protect employees from being forced to do unsafe things by their employer, or to operate unsafe equipment. When it comes to private individuals like myself, OSHA has no jurisdiction. I can do what I want including removing the safety features which manufactures are forced to install, cause they dont know weather a I, or an employer is going to buy the machine. Same goes for a "shop" modifying the rops for a private individuals tractor. Even if that "shop" were in the USA, OSHA has no jurisdiction.

Snip
I guess if you kept reading you would have got to the part about everyone doing what they want to their Rops and most not being as skilled at welding as Paul, then down the road selling their tractors to unsuspecting new owners years later.

Rops steel is not that thick, have you ever seen a crack form around a nice bead of weld over time? A Rops sticking up in the air on a diesel tractor "could " also be a great big vibration catcher, vibrating at the point of the weld over time if that weld is not what it should be it could fail and with the force of the tractor on it break. Again Not Paul's weld but people that think they know how to weld. In the case of a foldable Rops the hinge might take up the vibration from the weld but I would not want to take a chance.
And who are you guys to do what you want to Rops and then sell your tractors.


Someone said maybe it should have been kept to themselves, I agree.
Yes it's your tractor to do what you want to it, but when it comes time to sell do you tell the new owner? and is he going to tell the next owner.

As for law suits don't think You private Joe can't be sued, you can be sued if someone gets paralyzed for life because they were not informend of something you hid from a buyer especially if you have money or good insurance.

As for you having experience, it's operators error in that case of the girls dad. Its always always always operator error in every case, the Rops are to avoid getting hurt when operator error happens.

Rops is a big deal because this Government made it a big deal, you will always loose in a Law suit if you tamper with Rops. and someone gets hurt.

Tractor Overturns | Resources for Farmers | Great Plains Center for Agricultural Health

 

[BlacknTan]

Government is for the sheep that need it ...

I prefer to figure out what's good for me for myself

 

[WaxMan]

I sure hope my post doesn't incite the wrath of the safety police, but I would like to get a few thoughts on removing the ROPS. Here is my situation; I have a Grand L with FEL that I wouldn't dream of removing the ROPS from. However, I recently acquired a BX2200 strictly for mowing. During routine maintenance this weekend, I even removed the lift arms, and toplink.

I'm finding the ROPS sure hits a lot of limbs mostly on fruit trees, and even creates a situation causing more trim work. Have also lost a number of peaches recently from the ROPS hitting them.

I know the BX is considered a tractor, and is equipped just like it's big brothers, but, on the other hand, it's not much larger than the JD riding mower I have, which did not even come with a ROPS.

In short, I'm thinking of taking it off. Give me a good reason why I shouldn't.

K

Here is the first Post in this thread way back in 5/6/2012
I see nothing wrong if you the owner of the tractor take it off put it in the shed and when the time comes to sell the tractor put it back on.

Nobody get hurts except yourself, but when you screw with your Rops cut weld change the size on the tractor you own, then sell your tractor to a son or family member of any one of us here on TBN,
Do you still have the right to do what ever you want to the most important safety device on the tractor. Then sell it?
I also don't see anything wrong with cut and weld and buy a new section to install when you sell it.

Everybody has an opinion and this is mine, Mess with it all you want while you own it and put it back that way it was when you sell it meaning a new Rops system for the new owner. But how many will do that. So just don't mess with it.

Its funny as long as I have been following 4shorts that was always his advice also, Don't mess with it.

Just think about it for a minute in the last 20 years look how many Kubota's John Deere's etc were sold. Mostly used by un experienced new operators, how many people do you hear of getting hurt or killed from a Compact tractor rolling over?

It's not that they don't roll over its because they don't get hurt when they do. So its not news.
Why don't they get hurt, Rops. It's the experienced operators that get hurt the ones that know it all.

 

[LD1]

Should I have put a tops on my 1950's international before I sold it?

Should I do so on my 9n before I sell it?

I don't see anyone trying to hide anything. If a buyer were that concerned about it, they would inspect the rops, ask questions about the rops, and if in doubt, replace them.

There are those of us who take responsibility for our own safety, and can only blame ourselves if things go wrong. Then there are those of "you" who want to blame everyone else.

 

[buickanddeere]

Government is for the sheep that need it ...

I prefer to figure out what's good for me for myself

Fine sign away any assistance from police, fire, ambulance , hospital and rehab first. I'm tired of paying upkeep on risk takers that can look after themselves.

 

[buickanddeere]

Here is the first Post in this thread way back in 5/6/2012
I see nothing wrong if you the owner of the tractor take it off put it in the shed and when the time comes to sell the tractor put it back on.

Nobody get hurts except yourself, but when you screw with your Rops cut weld change the size on the tractor you own, then sell your tractor to a son or family member of any one of us here on TBN,
Do you still have the right to do what ever you want to the most important safety device on the tractor. Then sell it?
I also don't see anything wrong with cut and weld and buy a new section to install when you sell it.

Everybody has an opinion and this is mine, Mess with it all you want while you own it and put it back that way it was when you sell it meaning a new Rops system for the new owner. But how many will do that. So just don't mess with it.

Its funny as long as I have been following 4shorts that was always his advice also, Don't mess with it.

Just think about it for a minute in the last 20 years look how many Kubota's John Deere's etc were sold. Mostly used by un experienced new operators, how many people do you hear of getting hurt or killed from a Compact tractor rolling over?

It's not that they don't roll over its because they don't get hurt when they do. So its not news.
Why don't they get hurt, Rops. It's the experienced operators that get hurt the ones that know it all.

The newer tractor have a real drawbar instead of the three point hitch drawbar. The newer tractors also have a lower center of gravity. The newer tractor have more weight and pulling power which reduces the temptation to connect a towed load to the three point hitch top link.
Per make and model of tractor out there. The Ford N series is the most successful operator crusher out there.,

 

[buickanddeere]

If somebody had suggested some safety concerns to the operator 5 minutes before the wreck. Without a doubt the concerned person would have been told by the operator to go away and mind their own business.With the operator also adding that they knew what they were doing.

 

[tcartwri]

Every single commercial mower and tractor I see being used has the rops folded down. Every one.

 

[Citydude]

Every single commercial mower and tractor I see being used has the rops folded down. Every one.

I would hate to be the owner of the company if there is an accident. Liability issues through the roof....

 

[MHarryE]

Industry, not government, was the main driver in ROPS. When people were being seriously injured or killed in rollover accidents, the lawsuits would be against the company with the deepest pockets, usually the manufacturer. Industry, through SAE and ASAE, lobbied to get ROPS and FOPS requirements, and created the standards. And their is no universal requirement that every piece of equipment have a ROPS. There are companies, however, that insist that their machines go out with ROPS even if mot required.

I have had to make all to many trips to investigate fatal or critical injury accidents. ROPS removed or modified? Document and go home - lawsuit will end in summary judgement - thrown out. Seat belt not used? Police reports and medical examiner reports can be gruesome documenting the injuries of people who tried to jump free only to be crushed by the rolling machine.

If you do want to remove your ROPS, like somebody said, remove it and store it in case you want to sell the machine. Any modification will result in decertification.

So if you feel safe driving your tractor without a ROPS, remove it. Nobody is going to come after you. If you, however, hire someone to drive that tractor in its modified form, think twice.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

While the OP was talking basically a riding lawn mower without 3-PH or FEL it is a touchy subject. My late BIL was on 60 year old Ford 600 and he was found under the steering wheel. On the other hand I have had some close calls with large falling limbs when the ROPS on the MF 265 caught a low limb. I have been bush hogging in a few places and made sure I had my seat belt own but now I just let that place (at a neighbor's place) grow up. There is no need to be a cowboy when it comes to unnecessary risks.

I am at the point if it comes with one I will leave it on. I think my BIL got to sliding an a railroad bank (picking up pulled cross ties for a fencing job) and the lower tire dropped in a hole perhaps and flipped. Sadly he had a 1066 parked at the house with an enclosed cab. At age 8 I was operating a Ford 600 solo in remote hilly places and have been lucky and now at 63 I do not feel as lucky I guess knowing what I now know. It is so easy to get killed around even a riding lawn mower. As we age we must keep our minds when driving equipment that weights more than we do.

Just learned from a farmer in WI three weeks ago about using tractors to pack silage. I like to have freaked just thinking about it then just watched the video. I have done my share of dumb tractor driving on steep hills but was able to get headed down nose first with plenty of space to let the tractor run to a level spot. The Multi-Power in LOW can get you killed on the MF 265 when it free wheels down a steep hill before you know it. My son has been told never to run it in Low on hills unless it is to unlock the transmission so you can change gears and then you do it with both feet on the brakes until you get it back into High Multi-Power. My concern is I still forget to do that and so he may as well as a new tractor driver.