450EXC
Gold Member
Three cheers for the GC though.
He is cutting the lawers right out of the loop.
He is cutting the lawers right out of the loop.
It's too cold to build a barn, but we're doing it anyway!
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3RRL
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Rick,
Quite a project for this time of year. It's too bad about the finish work but glad to hear the GC will make it right for you. How big is that thing anyway, I don't think you ever said ... unless I missed it. Looks like about 38' x 46' or so, maybe bigger?
I use to Elk/Deer hunt in your area many years ago, and also around Rifle and Rangely. Got lost for a while in those White River Mountains once up on Beaver Flat (I think that's what they're called?) Is that famous little hotel still there where President Teddy Roosevelt stayed when he hunted out there? The animal mounts are magnificent!
Thanks for sharing your project.
Quite a project for this time of year. It's too bad about the finish work but glad to hear the GC will make it right for you. How big is that thing anyway, I don't think you ever said ... unless I missed it. Looks like about 38' x 46' or so, maybe bigger?
I use to Elk/Deer hunt in your area many years ago, and also around Rifle and Rangely. Got lost for a while in those White River Mountains once up on Beaver Flat (I think that's what they're called?) Is that famous little hotel still there where President Teddy Roosevelt stayed when he hunted out there? The animal mounts are magnificent!
Thanks for sharing your project.
OP
k6dyc
Bronze Member
Rob, the barn is 36x60 with a 10' lean-to running the length of the 60' side. It will be great once it is done and I get the inside ready for the horses.
Yep, lots of folks hunt this area, and the Meeker Hotel is still there. It was repainted last year and looks great. You're right about the mounts inside, they are huge and there are some of the biggest and highest scoring ever recorded. Funny how everyone remembers the Teddy Roosevelt story.
For your enjoyment, attached is a picture of the famous Meeker White Deer. He was first seen in early 2004 and the locals protected him each hunting season until Nov 2006 when he was found to be the victim of a (animal) predator. Not a true albino, but very white.
Yep, lots of folks hunt this area, and the Meeker Hotel is still there. It was repainted last year and looks great. You're right about the mounts inside, they are huge and there are some of the biggest and highest scoring ever recorded. Funny how everyone remembers the Teddy Roosevelt story.
For your enjoyment, attached is a picture of the famous Meeker White Deer. He was first seen in early 2004 and the locals protected him each hunting season until Nov 2006 when he was found to be the victim of a (animal) predator. Not a true albino, but very white.
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OP
k6dyc
Bronze Member
Update... I'm still waiting for the general to get back here with a crew to replace the siding and trim, but I'm comfortable he will do so shortly.
However, yesterday I received certified mail containing a Statement of Lien to be filed in 10 days for $6,450 from the SUBCONTRACTOR. An immediate call went out to the general who said he would get with his attorney the following day.
He called back today and said that he will post a bond to address the lien and it will have no effect on sale or use of the property.
This is really getting to be a pain. My wife Sandi and I began this project in order to have a sheltered place for the horses for the major part of the winter. Our original expectations were that it would be completed before Christmas. Here it is almost February and we still have to re-side the entire barn and deal with a lien. Actually, I'm fairly calm about the entire issue, perhaps because of the attitude of the general. We'll see how it develops.
However, yesterday I received certified mail containing a Statement of Lien to be filed in 10 days for $6,450 from the SUBCONTRACTOR. An immediate call went out to the general who said he would get with his attorney the following day.
He called back today and said that he will post a bond to address the lien and it will have no effect on sale or use of the property.
This is really getting to be a pain. My wife Sandi and I began this project in order to have a sheltered place for the horses for the major part of the winter. Our original expectations were that it would be completed before Christmas. Here it is almost February and we still have to re-side the entire barn and deal with a lien. Actually, I'm fairly calm about the entire issue, perhaps because of the attitude of the general. We'll see how it develops.
bones1
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I sure hope your GC does the right thing and takes care of this.Your post makes me nervous because a crew is starting my pole barn on Monday.Thanks to you I'll know what to watch out for.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Rick,
It's nice that your GC is going to make things right with you, but you should NEVER rely on him, or anybody else to fix these problems. Let him do it, as it's his responsibility, but plan on haveing to deal with it yourself. Things like this have a way of getting very ugly if you let them get too far out of control.
Step one should be to document the problems with the job. I know you have digital pictures, but you need notes to. Take a picture of a problem and write down what's wrong with it. Take measurements of parts that don't fit. Document every little bitty thing you can find.
Step two is to get something in writing from the GC that he's aware of the problem and will fix it. From what I've read, it's just what he's said over the phone. This scares me because they did such a bad job, that the GC is either clueless, or knowlingly sent an incompentent crew out to do the job. I know you like him, but from what I've read so far, I have my doubts.
The subcontror has taken legal action against you. You need to address this and file a complaint against them. They went first, so you are already on the defensive. You realy should contact an attorney to cover your rear end.
The lien can stay with you decades after it's been filed, even if it's thrown out, or paid off. What happens is that when you go to sell your land, the title search will come up with the lien and in my experience, they don't know what the outcome of it is. Many home sales sit in limbo for months because nobody can document that he lien is no longer in place. I've dealt with this several times in buying real estate, and everytime I go to sell it, the same thing happens again. Even when I used the same Title Company!!!
Good luck, I hope it all works out for you.
Eddie
It's nice that your GC is going to make things right with you, but you should NEVER rely on him, or anybody else to fix these problems. Let him do it, as it's his responsibility, but plan on haveing to deal with it yourself. Things like this have a way of getting very ugly if you let them get too far out of control.
Step one should be to document the problems with the job. I know you have digital pictures, but you need notes to. Take a picture of a problem and write down what's wrong with it. Take measurements of parts that don't fit. Document every little bitty thing you can find.
Step two is to get something in writing from the GC that he's aware of the problem and will fix it. From what I've read, it's just what he's said over the phone. This scares me because they did such a bad job, that the GC is either clueless, or knowlingly sent an incompentent crew out to do the job. I know you like him, but from what I've read so far, I have my doubts.
The subcontror has taken legal action against you. You need to address this and file a complaint against them. They went first, so you are already on the defensive. You realy should contact an attorney to cover your rear end.
The lien can stay with you decades after it's been filed, even if it's thrown out, or paid off. What happens is that when you go to sell your land, the title search will come up with the lien and in my experience, they don't know what the outcome of it is. Many home sales sit in limbo for months because nobody can document that he lien is no longer in place. I've dealt with this several times in buying real estate, and everytime I go to sell it, the same thing happens again. Even when I used the same Title Company!!!
Good luck, I hope it all works out for you.
Eddie
Robert_in_NY
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I do hope you get things fixed up properly but I will admit I laughed when I saw those pictures. I can not believe anyone who thinks they are a contractor would do such pathetic work. I have ran across some terrible homeowner jobs that come close to that type of shabby work but never have I seen an entire job done that way.
I will say this, if this guy did this bad of a job on the finish materials that you can actually see, I would be very worried about the rough framing he did that you can't see easily and even have someone else come in to inspect it. I don't know if you have to have a building inspector inspect things in your area but you really should have someone inspect this building before they replace all the wonderful work your previous sub did.
I will say this, if this guy did this bad of a job on the finish materials that you can actually see, I would be very worried about the rough framing he did that you can't see easily and even have someone else come in to inspect it. I don't know if you have to have a building inspector inspect things in your area but you really should have someone inspect this building before they replace all the wonderful work your previous sub did.
OP
k6dyc
Bronze Member
Eddie, thanks for the comments. I do have a written file to go with the photos, and have communicated it to the GC. Your suggestion to get something in writing from him is a good one, and I'll start on that today.
I have contacted a local attorney and he has suggested that there isn't really anything to do until the lien is actually filed, and if the GC does post a bond, that is the best initial remedy. Then the course of action is to make sure the bond and final outcome are recorded as to the property. I have another certified letter sitting at the Post Office which I'll pick-up today, probably the actual lien notice
.
I do have the withheld payment of $6,500 which is probably enough to make it right, but it certainly isn't enough if the legal side gets ugly. I intentionally hired a turnkey GC, one that provides the materials and labor, and even does their own manufacturing and design of many items. They are located on the other side of the Rocky Mountains, outside of Denver, and I'm on the western slope about 250 miles away. In our area, all of the contractors have a poor reputation for deadlines, quality of work and business principles. I'm counting on the business principles of the GC in this case, but I'll prepare to go on the offensive if needed.
Robert, the rough framing is probably the best part of the barn! It is visible on the inside, and the GC and I inspected it. It looks pretty good. I was a superintendent for US Home Corp. for a few years in a prior life and built about 150 tract homes so I learned a little about checking subs work. I was able to inspect the framing as it went up and found things to be square and I verified the level of the base and top plate with my own builders level and laser. The trusses were certified and set well. The one thing the sub seemed to know was framing. He set the building pretty well, he just didn't know much about the sheeting and was sloppy as it got closer to completion.
I have signed and engineered plans, the County looked at what I was doing and said there was no need for a permit or inspections since it was an ag project. I'm very comfortable with the structural aspects of the design and build, especially since I was actively involved in the post setting and initial framing stages.
My biggest concern is, as Eddie pointed out, the potential future ramifications of the lien. I'll have to stay on top of that one.
Thanks to all for the tips and suggestions.
I have contacted a local attorney and he has suggested that there isn't really anything to do until the lien is actually filed, and if the GC does post a bond, that is the best initial remedy. Then the course of action is to make sure the bond and final outcome are recorded as to the property. I have another certified letter sitting at the Post Office which I'll pick-up today, probably the actual lien notice
.I do have the withheld payment of $6,500 which is probably enough to make it right, but it certainly isn't enough if the legal side gets ugly. I intentionally hired a turnkey GC, one that provides the materials and labor, and even does their own manufacturing and design of many items. They are located on the other side of the Rocky Mountains, outside of Denver, and I'm on the western slope about 250 miles away. In our area, all of the contractors have a poor reputation for deadlines, quality of work and business principles. I'm counting on the business principles of the GC in this case, but I'll prepare to go on the offensive if needed.
Robert, the rough framing is probably the best part of the barn! It is visible on the inside, and the GC and I inspected it. It looks pretty good. I was a superintendent for US Home Corp. for a few years in a prior life and built about 150 tract homes so I learned a little about checking subs work. I was able to inspect the framing as it went up and found things to be square and I verified the level of the base and top plate with my own builders level and laser. The trusses were certified and set well. The one thing the sub seemed to know was framing. He set the building pretty well, he just didn't know much about the sheeting and was sloppy as it got closer to completion.
I have signed and engineered plans, the County looked at what I was doing and said there was no need for a permit or inspections since it was an ag project. I'm very comfortable with the structural aspects of the design and build, especially since I was actively involved in the post setting and initial framing stages.
My biggest concern is, as Eddie pointed out, the potential future ramifications of the lien. I'll have to stay on top of that one.
Thanks to all for the tips and suggestions.
MarkV
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Rick, sorry you are having the unexpected problems. It looked to me like things were going to be taken care of from all the GC had to say. Now we know the GC and the Sub have gone to war and the Sub has put you in the middle of it with a lien. It is time for the GC to get something in writing for you that shows the job is unacceptable, he is going to make repairs in a timely way and most importantly that he is going to take care of the lien. If the GC is going to put up a bond I’d be saying “show me the paper.” When that Sub took a lien out on your property that is legal action against you without the GC in the loop as far as the court house is concerned. I’d jump on it before the GC decides this is getting to costly and finds a reason not to take your calls. It happens.
MarkV
Edit; Rick, we were writting at the same time. Glad you are getting agressive enough to cover yourself. Good luck!
MarkV
Edit; Rick, we were writting at the same time. Glad you are getting agressive enough to cover yourself. Good luck!
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Rick,
Sounds like you have a handle on the situation and taking steps to protect yourself. I'm curious if you've spoken to the subcontractor about the job he did personally? Have you asked him back out to explain why he did what he did? I think that if you documented that conversation, you'd be able to sue the **** out of him in court pretty easily. Just don't tell him what you're thinking.
I'm amazed at the speed of the lien. Most guys spend months going back and forth to get payment for a job and don't have a clue how to file a lien. This guy did it in record time, which tells me several things. He's done it before and knows the system. It also tells me that he's had other jobs that people didn't want to pay him for his work. I guess we know why.
This really is a very poor reflection on your GC and his company. If it was a rookie crew, he should have been there to make sure they did it right. These guys got the basics wrong and never had a chance at any of the detail work. Since they've been doing this for awhile, that must mean they've been doing the same quality of work for awhile and getting away with it. Either because they have customers who don't know any better, or they are aggressive with their liens and scare the client into paying.
Are the guys who framed the barn the same ones who put the siding up?
I guess I missed that part. I've seen this before when a contractor does something very well, then decides to try something new and doesn't know what he's doing. Pride or whatever keeps them at it, but it just gets worse until they get fired. In the jobs I've come in to redo, the previous contractor is never paid and they no longer answer the phones. They have been sued for the cost to repair there shoddy work and in the one case I was involved with, they didn't even show up at court. He did a fantastic job of building the metal frame of the building for a very good price, but then he failed miserably to finish off a part of the inside.
If it gets any worse, and the GC doesn't show up, or maybe even before he shows up, you might want to contact a certified building inspector and pay for a profesional report of the job that was done by the subcontractor. Home inspectors are a few hundred dollars here for a basic inspection. If a profesional inspector documents all there mistakes, you'd have a very good case for a lawsuit if it comes to that. Just be sure to have it done before anybody starts any repair work.
Once the repairs are started, then you are in a whole new ball game with the outcome still unknown.
Good luck,
Eddie
Sounds like you have a handle on the situation and taking steps to protect yourself. I'm curious if you've spoken to the subcontractor about the job he did personally? Have you asked him back out to explain why he did what he did? I think that if you documented that conversation, you'd be able to sue the **** out of him in court pretty easily. Just don't tell him what you're thinking.
I'm amazed at the speed of the lien. Most guys spend months going back and forth to get payment for a job and don't have a clue how to file a lien. This guy did it in record time, which tells me several things. He's done it before and knows the system. It also tells me that he's had other jobs that people didn't want to pay him for his work. I guess we know why.
This really is a very poor reflection on your GC and his company. If it was a rookie crew, he should have been there to make sure they did it right. These guys got the basics wrong and never had a chance at any of the detail work. Since they've been doing this for awhile, that must mean they've been doing the same quality of work for awhile and getting away with it. Either because they have customers who don't know any better, or they are aggressive with their liens and scare the client into paying.
Are the guys who framed the barn the same ones who put the siding up?
I guess I missed that part. I've seen this before when a contractor does something very well, then decides to try something new and doesn't know what he's doing. Pride or whatever keeps them at it, but it just gets worse until they get fired. In the jobs I've come in to redo, the previous contractor is never paid and they no longer answer the phones. They have been sued for the cost to repair there shoddy work and in the one case I was involved with, they didn't even show up at court. He did a fantastic job of building the metal frame of the building for a very good price, but then he failed miserably to finish off a part of the inside.
If it gets any worse, and the GC doesn't show up, or maybe even before he shows up, you might want to contact a certified building inspector and pay for a profesional report of the job that was done by the subcontractor. Home inspectors are a few hundred dollars here for a basic inspection. If a profesional inspector documents all there mistakes, you'd have a very good case for a lawsuit if it comes to that. Just be sure to have it done before anybody starts any repair work.
Once the repairs are started, then you are in a whole new ball game with the outcome still unknown.
Good luck,
Eddie