Jinma. Any good?

[Gronk]

I will elaborate and try to keep it short. I was financially at my limit to aquire a 35 hp tractor, so the added expense of FEL and Backhoe was beyound my budget. A further issue for me was maintenance access FEL are rather restrictive for the engine area to work on. I agree that the Full frame mounting for the backhoe would benefit the strengh issue versus the 3 pt. for farm style tractors. In my case I needed full access for 3 pt. attachments for farming activities and did not want fight the backhoe on and off. Years ago, I had a old Ford 800 series with FEL and it was a pain to work on the engine with the loader frame in the way. The more hydraulic attachments the more chances for hydraulic leaks. I was a construction mechanic for many years and, now, I like very simple tools that don't leak expensive oil. A older commercial construction style loader backhoe may have some merit if your soley looking at loader and backhoe operations. Look at all your options. bjr

Thanks bjr,

I think it just boils down to our needs being very different. I am purchasing a tractor specifically to have a FEL and backhoe so I have considered the points you made about access and serviceability and I am comfortable with those compromises. I did look at older commercial units but they usually cannot also power rear finishing mowers, box blades and post-hole diggers, other implements that I will be requiring. A tractor is really my only do-all option so I must do my homework and choose wisely.


Sean

 

[biggerten]

I have a 35 HP Jinma with the Chinese ZL-30 FEL and LW-7 3pt backhoe. I purchased it assembled from Northwoods Tractor in St Croix Falls, WI. Matt's a good guy, I had two electrical issues, one was a bad clutch switch (common on these things, it seems) and a mis-adjusted tach sensor (also common). These were easy fixes.

I've replaced the FEL valves with a Brand valve (gives me float and regen), and use a Prince PTO pump per Bob Rooks' suggestion.

Since using the Prince pump, I have had zero problems with the backhoe. I am using the Mag1 brand hydraulic fluid carried by Northern. I probably don't use mine as hard as Bob did his, and estimate I have about 40 hours on the backhoe (mostly removing stumps). It takes some getting used to, the actions can be abrupt, with the controls difficult to feather, and I consequently run the engine at 1000 rpm or so while running the backhoe - it helps me operate smoother.

The FEL can be mounted/dismounted without difficulty by one person, otherwise the arms do get in the way while doing maintenance.

By the way, it came with glowplugs. I've added a lower radiator hose heater for cold weather starts.

Yeah, a hydrostatic drive would be nice, but having money is nice, too. A shuttle shift would be nice, wish I had one. Some folks aren't happy with the two speeds available in reverse, feeling low range is too slow and high range is too fast.

All in all, I'm very happy, I don't regret the 3 point backhoe at all. I am nervous, however, because of Bob's experiences. I'd would opt for another brand of hoe if I were purchasing now. I'd also probably look for a Koyker loader. The loader has been OK, the valve replacement was done to make the loader operation nicer, it wasn't a necessity.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[3RRL]

One other thing that needs to be brought up.
On the factory 284 Jinma loader brackets, they did not go back tied into the rear axle like my Koyker loader does. At least not on her ZL20 loader. I don't know how it is on the larger models? I would consider this an important feature to help disperse loader stress to the bell housing and transmission. I still need to do this on Loretta's tractor as a stress safety feature.
A subframe for the backhoe is equally as important for the same reason, plus the added torsional stress from sideways digging. I don't have a backhoe for the Jinma, but I believe their factory back hoe subframes tie into the tractor both underneath the rear end and up to the front somewhere.

 

[doxford jim]

Hi Rob,

The ZL-60 FEL does tie into the rear of the tractor. The frame parts that bolt on to the side of the clutch housing (step is removed for this ) actually connect to the rear axle. Although not huge is size, these parts do transmit some of the load to the rear of the tractor - this is on the larger 554 Jinma. Being a Jinma designed FEL, I assumed that it was specifically designed for these tractors and should be a good reasonable choice - but of course, not a Koyker or other more expensive model.

Jim

One other thing that needs to be brought up.
On the factory 284 Jinma loader brackets, they did not go back tied into the rear axle like my Koyker loader does. At least not on her ZL20 loader. I don't know how it is on the larger models? I would consider this an important feature to help disperse loader stress to the bell housing and transmission. I still need to do this on Loretta's tractor as a stress safety feature.
A subframe for the backhoe is equally as important for the same reason, plus the added torsional stress from sideways digging. I don't have a backhoe for the Jinma, but I believe their factory back hoe subframes tie into the tractor both underneath the rear end and up to the front somewhere.

 

[biggerten]

The ZL-30 on my 354 mounts to brackets bolted to the bellhousing, no connection to the rear axle.

When I purchased my tractor/backhoe, there was no frame mount option. But, the FEL brackets appear to have accomodations for one, so I suppose I could convert with a custom mount that would tie the FEL and backhoe together and to the rear axle. Maybe one is available now, someone might chime in.

 

[3RRL]

My buddy got a Kama 354 with the ZL-30 loader and it was not tied into the rear axle either. He made heavy brackets to complete the connection.
I see on Loretta's ZL-20 there is a stabilizing connection that goes to the front. There is a 1/2 tube receptacle running across the front and also connected to part of the fel mount.
They are black in this photo.




Well, where that black bracket attaches to the yellow horizontal bracket coming from the fel mount, those bolts you see are always coming loose no matter how tight I get them and regardless of Loktite. If you look closely on the yellow part, you can see that the black bracket has been sliding back and forth on those slots. I'm considering cinching the fit there so everything fits snug, and then running a bead across where the yellow and black brackets are bolted together. The fel should still be able to come off, right? But it would fit the front part real snug. I assume the bolts are there for initial fit to each tractor, so once it's fit it shouldn't move.
Anybody see a problem with that? Then I will make some brackets to tie in the loader mounts to the rear end as well.

The Koyker FEL front braces are very big and run from the main fel mount along the sides and attach to the lower part of the engine block. they are not up on top like on the ZL-20.



The Kama with Koyker loader has that piece that ties into the rear end. You can see it very good here painted red.
I welded part of my backhoe subframe mount to it.

 

[erj]

Sean,
I believe that the Jinma is an excellent buy. I am not an expert since this is my first tractor and first diesel. With 380 hours on it, I feel that I have definitely gotten my moneys worth. I have had a few initial electrical problems that took some time to figure out, but no real problems. I believe that I work the tractor fairly hard. I know that I can sometimes tell that it is straining to do what I want. I am not sure that I agree with concerns expressed about a 'weak front-end' on the tractor if there is adequate counterweight on the back when using the FEL.

Your note indicated that you were getting the tractor primarily for FEL and backhoe use. That is what I use mine for. I have been happy with the Coldwater FEL. The only objection that I have is that it will not stay in a set raised position when I park it. I had intended to use the FEL with forks for a scaffold to work off of. The dealer and I are still trying to figure out why his 2 identical tractors do not drop and mine does.

Regarding the backhoe. I have the JW03 and it is very powerful. When I use it, the rear of the tractor is constantly being shifted around because of the backhoe power. I have 2 complaints on it (and from what I have gathered) they are common for all Jinma backhoes. It is nearly impossible to operate delicately. I would never use it close to a structure or anything that I valued. The other is the inability to multi-function. They do not seem to be capable of performing multi-functions (Curl, Dipper In, Boom Raise) at the same time. At times you may be able to get some of them to work together, but it is not something that you can count on. From what I have gathered, it appears to be in the sloppiness of the valve controls. As a matter of fact, I have exchanged information with many other non-Jinma backhoe owners and I have not yet found one who is getting true multi-function performance regardless of the manufacturer. Therefore on the backhoe, I would suggest that you be very selective.
RonJ

 

[biggerten]

Rob:

My ZL-30 setup is the same. I have not had the bolt loosening issues you have.

I hesitate to comment, because you are one of the masters of the Chinese tractor boards, but I am leery of the welding you suggest, and would do that as a last resort, when there are other fixes available -

1) Get longer bolts, and use two nuts, locking them together should do the trick.

2) Peen the nuts to the bolts after tightening (move the nuts to the outside of the mount for this).

You could always reverse those actions a lot easier than grinding off the bead you suggest. BTW, the FEL would still be able to come off. You can see the legs for the FEL are provided, install them and use them to support the FEL, pull the two pins on the front bracket, the two pins back by the bell housing, dis-connect the QC's (and couple the QC's still on the tractor together, of course, to not dead-head the pump) and back away. Reverse the process (a little trickier, but still not too hard for one person) to install. This is where leaving some adjustability may come in handy, to help get that front support back in the channel across the front of the tractor. It might not be needed, but just incase.

Good luck.

 

[3RRL]

Sean,
I believe that the Jinma is an excellent buy. I am not an expert since this is my first tractor and first diesel. With 380 hours on it, I feel that I have definitely gotten my moneys worth. I have had a few initial electrical problems that took some time to figure out, but no real problems. I believe that I work the tractor fairly hard. I know that I can sometimes tell that it is straining to do what I want. I am not sure that I agree with concerns expressed about a 'weak front-end' on the tractor if there is adequate counterweight on the back when using the FEL.

Your note indicated that you were getting the tractor primarily for FEL and backhoe use. That is what I use mine for. I have been happy with the Coldwater FEL. The only objection that I have is that it will not stay in a set raised position when I park it. I had intended to use the FEL with forks for a scaffold to work off of. The dealer and I are still trying to figure out why his 2 identical tractors do not drop and mine does.

Regarding the backhoe. I have the JW03 and it is very powerful. When I use it, the rear of the tractor is constantly being shifted around because of the backhoe power. I have 2 complaints on it (and from what I have gathered) they are common for all Jinma backhoes. It is nearly impossible to operate delicately. I would never use it close to a structure or anything that I valued. The other is the inability to multi-function. They do not seem to be capable of performing multi-functions (Curl, Dipper In, Boom Raise) at the same time. At times you may be able to get some of them to work together, but it is not something that you can count on. From what I have gathered, it appears to be in the sloppiness of the valve controls. As a matter of fact, I have exchanged information with many other non-Jinma backhoe owners and I have not yet found one who is getting true multi-function performance regardless of the manufacturer. Therefore on the backhoe, I would suggest that you be very selective.
RonJ

Hi Ron,
I don't have JW03 but there is a guy on another board that has one, or the similar model. Here is a link to one of his threads and you might want to contact him. Adding Hyd Gauge to Backhoe
I couldn't find the thread I was looking for, but what he did was mill out the valve handle plate on his hoe. That allowed him to use the levers better. He claims he can now use them in all directions (multi-function) like other hoes. Check it out and PM him there.

As far as your FEL leaking down, I'll bet it's a leak, ruptured "O" ring or some debris in your loader valve. Probably not the cylinders themselves.

 

[3RRL]

Rob:

My ZL-30 setup is the same. I have not had the bolt loosening issues you have.

I hesitate to comment, because you are one of the masters of the Chinese tractor boards, but I am leery of the welding you suggest, and would do that as a last resort, when there are other fixes available -

1) Get longer bolts, and use two nuts, locking them together should do the trick.

2) Peen the nuts to the bolts after tightening (move the nuts to the outside of the mount for this).

You could always reverse those actions a lot easier than grinding off the bead you suggest. BTW, the FEL would still be able to come off. You can see the legs for the FEL are provided, install them and use them to support the FEL, pull the two pins on the front bracket, the two pins back by the bell housing, dis-connect the QC's (and couple the QC's still on the tractor together, of course, to not dead-head the pump) and back away. Reverse the process (a little trickier, but still not too hard for one person) to install. This is where leaving some adjustability may come in handy, to help get that front support back in the channel across the front of the tractor. It might not be needed, but just incase.

Good luck.

Thanks for the kind words man, I am a legend in my own mind. lol
I should have thought about what you suggested with getting longer bolts or peening or two nuts, but to be honest, I figured welding would solve it for good. I am still to this day tightening bolts and nuts on both tractors regardless of adding Locktite and torquing down. It is very time consuming and I constantly worry about it, like man, what would have happened if I didn't catch THAT one? You know what I mean?
I have never had the FEL off but I can surely see where being able to adjust that bar I plan on welding would come in handy when re-attaching it. Of course on the other hand, I could just leave that part up to my wife.
I did install a pressure relief valve right after the pump in case we (she) forgot to reconnect the hoses when taking the FEL off. I think you might have seen that thread where I added all those hydraulic gadgets to her Jinma? You never know, but chances are we will never take the loader off. So far after 75 hrs on her Jimna, and 560 hrs on my Kama, we have never had either off. lol ... I think I would sell them before taking it off.
So that's why I was asking about it. Like you said, it could still come off even if I welded those braces together, but it sure would be nice to be able to adjust when putting it back on.
Thanks for your comments. I learn something everyday!

 

[biggerten]

Unless the 254/354 designs are totally different (and I don't think they are) you'll be removing the FEL to adjust the clutch.

It's also much easier to work in the engine compartment with the FEL removed. In fact, since she has 75 hours on it, you might want to be re-torquing the head bolts and adjusting valve lash soon. I'd remove the FEL and do all three procedures (clutch, head and valve lash) at once - saves removing the FEL a second time.

 

[Gronk]

Thanks for all the info guys, you are invaluable. I have negotiated what I think is a very good deal on a 284 with FEL and a crate backhoe and I am just waiting until I move on the 30th to have the money available for the purchase. I had a few things in my favor and I think that is why I was able to get such a good price.

First I was hoping to take advantage of crate pricing since I have a garage to assemble the tractor in over the winter. The dealer I talked to has two assembled tractors that he would like to move before the snow falls. Crate tractors are easy to store, assembled ones not so much for him.

Secondly, he has no tractors in my area therefore the deal includes me to be able to show the tractor to potential buyers in my area, at my convenience.

Thirdly, the BH in the deal is still in the crate. While the tractor itself and the FEL are assemebled, it would be up to me to assemble/attach the BH.

Although I am 99% certain to accept this deal, I have a few days left to think about it. The only question I have left really is this:

If I feel I am getting a good deal, (much better than the advertised price) is there any reason why I shouldn't take advantage of it? I understand the question is pretty vague and open to personal interpretation so let me elaborate. I realize Chinese tractors may not have the fit and finish or some creature comforts of name-brand tractors of the same category so I'm not too concerned if the hour meter stops working or that it doesn't have cup-holders. I am strictly thinking about issues that affect the usability of the machine as a multi-use tractor. In the future I plan to ad a rear finishing mower, a box blade and a post-hole digger.

It is my understanding that a 28hp tractor used on a 5 acre property will hardly break a sweat being used as an "estate" tractor. I want to install a fence, mow the lawn and grade my driveway in the summer as well as dig up stumps to clean up the property and move some dirt around. (three boys with dirtbikes, I'm sure you can imagine what they want ) I will have a plow truck for clearing snow in the winter but the FEL could be useful for moving snowbanks when the snow starts to pile up. Other than the fact that it comes with agricultural tires, can anybody see a flaw in my plan? I am thinking about purchasing another set of wheels with turf tires on them or just paying the extra cash for a set of R4 tires.

Also, the tractor has the creeper gear instead of the shuttle shift. Any concerns there as far as it pertains to what I want to do with it?

Thanks again guys. You've all been a great help. And I know everybody like pictures so here is a pic of the actual tractor I'm dealing for. (without the PTO generator)

Sean

 

[Jinma284]

I've had a Jinma 284 for 6 years now. I use it on my 10 acre peach farm. I cleared out all the fence around the farm and put in new woven wire. I use the bush hog to mow the whole place except a small area around the house. I mow it when it dosen't need mowing because I enjoy driving it. I also use it to pull a spray rig through the peach field to spray. The pump on the spray rig is powered with the pto. Mine also has turf tires which, based on your use for mowing with a finish mower, I would think you would also want. My turf tires grip well enough to pull a 5 ft. disc in 4 wheel drive and to bend up my box blade when I hit a stump going backwards. I though I could push it out. Not so much.

I believe you will love the tractor when you get it. I don't think you will miss shuttle shift that much if you don't use the front end loader except to move snow. You will be able to use the creeper gear to stretch fence with. Put it in the lowest gear and you can tighten the fence just like you want it. I'm very happy with my tractor.

Pat

 

[3RRL]

Do the 284's offer a shuttle shift?
Loretta's Honeybee has the creeper gear on it, but we have not used it yet, other than just trying it out. It lets you go sloooow. She has a 4' tiller for it but we haven't used that yet either. I imagine the two might be a good fit though. Low range is pretty low as it is.

Since you're planning to get the FEL, it is a small pain for a lot of loader bucket or grapple work just backing in and out of places. But you can always shift to "high" for more speed in reverse and lower the engine rpm a tad. If you plan on a lot of pulling, the shuttle shift is not really needed. In our case, we use the Kama for most of the heavy loader work. It has a shuttle shift, 8 forward and 8 reverse. So we can be a little more selective which tractor to use for certain operations. However, when we get the 284 to do some loader work, the shuttle shift would be nice on it too.
I can say having that super slow reverse is really nice for hooking up. It's also real handy when we used the Jinma to dig footings for the deck posts. It was much easier to position the Post hole digger going that slow in reverse. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too?

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am a big fan of AG tires. Why get a tractor with other tires? If it is a matter of tearing up your yard then you don't need a tractor. My neighbor has a 35HP John Deere with R4's and it sucks in the snow. He has me plow his drive when we get more that 6" of snow. Also I like the creeper gear. I use mine probably 5 to 10 % of the time. Like Rob said it makes it very precise and is good for pulling stumps, logs out of the woods, ect.

Its a tractor, not a riding mower.

Chris

 

[hbaird]

I have R4's and am quite satisfied with them. AG tires are better on really soft ground but I don't want the ruts. I use my tractor all over my place but most of the time on grass. The R4's pull as good or better on firm ground for me with much less damage when they spin. Just one man's opinion. I have my 200LE loaded like a rented mule. Koyker 140 FEL on the front and RE 180 Italian Backhoe on the back. AG tires made marks on the yard even when dry. Last week I shoved a cut up 75ft tall tree remains about 75ft with theFEL down and left no wheel tracks. The loader did dig in from time to time.
hbaird

 

[Gronk]

I am a big fan of AG tires. Why get a tractor with other tires? If it is a matter of tearing up your yard then you don't need a tractor. My neighbor has a 35HP John Deere with R4's and it sucks in the snow. He has me plow his drive when we get more that 6" of snow. Also I like the creeper gear. I use mine probably 5 to 10 % of the time. Like Rob said it makes it very precise and is good for pulling stumps, logs out of the woods, ect.

Its a tractor, not a riding mower.

Chris

Here is a picture of my truck. (really )

I don't know why anybody would want tires any smaller or less aggressive that that. My buddies are always calling me to pull them out of the mud and snow. I'm a big fan of agressive tires but I can appreciate the fact that not everybody has a use for them. It is pretty narrow-minded to think that all tractors should only come with AG tires.


Sean

 

[Gronk]

Do the 284's offer a shuttle shift?
Loretta's Honeybee has the creeper gear on it, but we have not used it yet, other than just trying it out. It lets you go sloooow. She has a 4' tiller for it but we haven't used that yet either. I imagine the two might be a good fit though. Low range is pretty low as it is.

Yes they can come with it.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/78018-jinma-284-shuttle-shift-sequence.html

So how slow is it in the creeper at optimal engine RPM? Are we talking feet/min?


Sean

 

[3RRL]

It is so slow you don't need a speedometer, you need a calendar!

 

[Diamondpilot]

Yes they can come with it.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/78018-jinma-284-shuttle-shift-sequence.html

So how slow is it in the creeper at optimal engine RPM? Are we talking feet/min?


Sean

I believe it is 60 feet per hour in first gear. About double that in 2nd and about triple that in 3rd.

Chris