Kioti Broken in Half

[3 Horse Ranch]

NOT from day 1, not even year 1.
It was several years before loader debuted on farm tractors.

The same could be said for the three point hitch, the PTO, rubber tires, diesel engines,,,
So what's your point?

 

[ljjhouser]

Hard to believe it is real - trying to sell in like that.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Tough to tell from the pics, but it almost looked to me that the frame had been previously welded where it broke in half.
Not sure, but the frame at the point of separation is far less structurally sound than about 2' back.

I have only read the OP and looked that the photos from Fakebook. The frame broke at the bend/welds where the front axle is mounted. Something else to carefully inspect as I've already needed to fix the 3PT lower arm stays on my tractor and we've heard of cracked subframes. I'm guessing a whole lot of overweight loader activity, but who knows. Regardless, I'm going to really inspect the frame in that area on my tractor instead of just looking for working fasteners.

FWIW, here is my video fixing my 3PT lower arm stay mounts.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Could that be MinnesotaEric’s?

My tractor leads an easy life doing almost nothing more than light loader work carrying wood and snow plowing.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

The 3rd pic shows the cab step bent forward, a lot. My guess is abuse.

I presume the operator was backing up at the time the axle broke off and that is how the steps were bent. Bent steps in and of themselves are not a conclusive sign of abuse since the steps hang down and can get snagged by something that loosened up under the tractor.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Kioti makes a very solid and tough tractor. Far from junk. They can see some serious work if used properly and for what it was intended, just like any other brand.

Tractors were never meant to have a loader on. So light to medium duty work is ok. Anything above that will fall very quickly on the abuse category. As if that wasn't enough, people use these oversized and overweight attachments that cause more harm that good.

Kioti DK5010:

View attachment 729908 View attachment 729910

Right there is a reason the warranty may not be honored since this tractor is obviously exceeding the drawbar tow rating.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

If you were going to use a tractor to build a loader this is how to solve the inherent design flaws. View attachment 730005

In a sea of people leashing cable-actuated loaders to tractors in the 1920s, Hough was the first to make dedicated hydraulic wheel loaders. This was the start and they went on to range up to huge open-pit monsters. Even so back in the day, Hough recognized the difference between lifting and carrying capacities.

 

[Jims1025R]

Then all tractors would have been articulated as it should have been for front loader work.

When I work in Germany, I have the pleasure of occasionally operating a small articulated loader about the size of my JD 1025R. It had four equal sized wheels, and is obviously designed as a loader first. It has really well thoughout controls, all work is done one hand on the wheel, the other on the loader control, with forward and reverse there, and a gas pedal. Totally simple. That said, it is articulated, but does not have a teetering axle, so it's not designed for uneven ground. it sits high, and although stable, feels that when articulated steered tightly, feels less stable. I'm sure it's fine - it's German, but I actually do feel more stable on a regular tractor configuration chassis when the loader is high, even with the teetering front axle.

The fixed chassis, rear wheel steering versions are horribly twitchy steering at any speed. Fine crawling around the yard, but not at road speeds! Like a shopping cart going backward down the aisle - wants to go any direction other than you point it!

I agree it seems odd to have the small front wheels carrying the load, but that's where the load limit comes in, I suppose. On the other hand, I've also run CAT 988 & 992 loaders, they feel as though they can carry a heaping bucket load with ultimate stability - but I can't afford one, it would not fit down the paths in my forest, and if I ever got it stuck, that would be... well... a problem out of my league!

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Could I weld them together into one machine?
Eric

I saw a photo of that once. i think this is an early rear steer machine as I don't see a twiddly-articulation bit in the middle. Behold:

 

[jimglassford]

Wow, 23 pages of comments from people who have no idea what happened to the tractor to cause the failure. No one has any clue how a modern tractor is designed, to what specifications, to what safety margin or even tested. However, everyone is an expert.

 

[Jims1025R]

No one has any clue how a modern tractor is designed, to what specifications, to what safety margin or even tested.

I'm only a 30 year tractor/loader/excavator owner, so I can always learn more, what can you offer?

I enjoy learning about structural testing and safety margins, I test and certify airplane designs for a living....

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

"It has really well thoughout controls, all work is done one hand on the wheel, the other on the loader control, with forward and reverse there, and a gas pedal. Totally simple."

The modern wheel loaders are doing away with the steering wheel making operating even simpler.

 

[Citydude]

Caterpillar got rid of steering wheels in the early 2000's.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I'm only a 30 year tractor/loader/excavator owner, so I can always learn more, what can you offer?

I enjoy learning about structural testing and safety margins, I test and certify airplane designs for a living....

Speaking of: after learning from my racing days I'll never trust anything structural made of carbon fiber again. Looks good, looks good, looks good, *bang* catastrophic failure! ground, sky, ground, sky, ground, sky!

 

[4570Man]

"It has really well thoughout controls, all work is done one hand on the wheel, the other on the loader control, with forward and reverse there, and a gas pedal. Totally simple."

The modern wheel loaders are doing away with the steering wheel making operating even simpler.

Joystick controls are great. I’m honestly surprised nobody has put them in a vehicle especially for partly disabled people.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Joystick controls are great. I’m honestly surprised nobody has put them in a vehicle especially for partly disabled people.

I can think of two potential reasons.

1) All disabilities are not the same, a joystick may help some, but not all disabled persons. This first reason isn't reason enough to not make joystick controls available since many vehicles are now fly-by-wire.

2) Unlike an aircraft, if a person were to panic saw one way or another on a joystick, this may pitch the vehicle into a slide or a spin. Software could govern this but at some point is there enough demand for the R and D needed to offer the option? I dunno.

Meanwhile, my right hand knows what it is doing, but my left hand is still figuring these new, crazy hand-controls out and my left and right feet feel left out. Smile.

 

[the old grind]

Joystick controls are great. I’m honestly surprised nobody has put them in a vehicle especially for partly disabled people.

Can you say "Beatnik Bandit"?

"The Bandit does not have a traditional steering wheel or floor pedals. Steering, throttle, transmission, and braking are all controlled by a chrome-plated joystick mounted on the center tunnel."
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatnik_Bandit

"Steering, gas, shifting and gears on the car were operated using a chromed center stick."
From: Beatnik Bandit | Motortopia Car Blog

 

[jimglassford]

I'm only a 30 year tractor/loader/excavator owner, so I can always learn more, what can you offer?

I enjoy learning about structural testing and safety margins, I test and certify airplane designs for a living....

My point exactly. I have been driving cars for over 40 years. Does that make me an expert on automotive design?

 

[Jims1025R]

Does that make me an expert on automotive design?

Maybe, I don't know. It just sounds from your reply that you think no one who is posting has experience with tractors, and structural design, yet you don't know who's posting.... A tractor was broken, I don't know what caused that tractor so be damaged, nor its design and limitations....

 

[rademamj1]

It is not uncommon these days. My neighbor cracked a new 75HP New Holland in half while mowing. He hit a ditch at a nice clip and cracked it just like the picture here. he is very hard on equipment. Smaller tractors have become less structurally sound due to price competitiveness. New Holland, Deere, Kubota etc. have had to cheapen their products over the past twenty years to compete with cheap brands.

Interestingly, I think its just the reverse. Those "cheap brands" have been increasing overall tractor quality, transmissionsand hydraulics to compete with JD and Kubota. And the tractor industry and consumers are better off because of this healthy competition.