Kubota B2150 - Problems!

[JoeDaly]

Hi everyone,

I'm a warden on a Scout campsite, and about 3 years ago we bought a Kubota B2150, which I think is an absolutely fantastic machine. Unfortunately we've had a few problems and I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice...

When we agreed to buy the tractor, it had a 5ft John Deere flail mower on the back. A few days before delivery, the dealer rang to say that the deck was "broken and unrepairable", but as a goodwill gesture he offered to fit a new flail mower.

The tractor arrived... with a 4ft Hymari flail mower on the back. We had problems with it from the first day we used it. I've never been able to go out and cut the entire campsite without having to come back to the workshop to fix it.

Anyway.... the Hymari flail mower has finally shaken itself to pieces and we've given up on it. We've bought a Kubota RC-21BK (?) mid-mounted deck to replace it.

We mounted it last night and I went out and cut two fields with it... when it stopped cutting. I turned the engine off and could hear a dripping sound... I looked underneath to find the mid-PTO housing had broken clean in half, and there was 15 litres of hydraulic oil in the middle of the field. Any ideas on why this may have happened?

I've been to my dealer and ordered (a very expensive) replacement part which should be with me tomorrow.

Anyway... I would be interested if any Kubota owners could tell me how they engage the PTO on their tractors? When it was delivered (with flail mower attatched), the dealer sat on the machine and showed me a lever to the bottom left of the seat. If you lift it up, the PTO spins at 540rpm and if you push it down it spins at 700ish(?) rpm.

However, it will not go into 540rpm - you have to put it into 700rpm first and then lift it up into 540rpm. It does this with an almighty crunch. I'm sure that this isn't correct, and I think it could be a contributing factor to the damage. Does anyone know if this is the right way to engage the PTO?

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

Joe.

 

[dodge man]

I can't answer the question for your tractor, but you do want to throttle down some when you start the PTO, maybe have it a little above idle. This takes some of the shock off the sytstem when starting the PTO.

 

[TripleR]

I can't answer the question for your tractor, but you do want to throttle down some when you start the PTO, maybe have it a little above idle. This takes some of the shock off the sytstem when starting the PTO.

My manuals indicate to engage at "half throttle", but like Dodge Man, I prefer to go lower and then throttle up.

As to the hard engagement, check your linkage, but some older Kubotas I have run were a little hard to engage no matter what.

 

[8x56mn]

I owned a B2150 for 10 years, they are a great and rugged machine. Regarding the PTO speeds, you actualy have four speed options. There is a bracket adjacent to your lever that allows you to remove a bolt and turn the bracket over to allow the lever to go into a different position giving you a higher output. I always use the max. speed which alows me to run at a lower engine rpm to get the 540 pto speed at the rear pto. Hope thats clear.
It sounds like you were engaging at a too high of engine rpm. Did you have the clutch depressed when you tried to engage? I would engage at idle speed and then crank it up to where everything sounds right at the mower.
If your mowing heavy grass or hay with your MMM your really working it hard. I sold my MMM and used a 4ft Squeller

 

[JoeDaly]

Thanks for your replies everyone.

I have been engaging the PTO with the revs at around 1000rpm, so just over idling speed.

I'm only using it to mow fields with fairly thin and short grass.

8x56mn, you mention depressing the clutch when trying to engage. Is there a seperate clutch for the PTO or are you referring to the main clutch?

I might have a look for a diagram regarding the removable bracket to change the PTO speeds.

Thanks,
Joe.

 

[RobertN]

My old B8200 was a the forerunner to the B2150; both excellent tractors.

1st, engage the PTO at low engine RPM, then run the RPM up. I only used my tractor with a rotary mower, but still, engaged at a little above idel, and then revved up. Otherwise, you are just asking for trouble.

2nd, as 8x56mn says, there is a little plate that you either remove or flip over, which allows the pto lever to go to the higher RPM. Usually, they are set so you only have neutral and 540rpm, since that is what 99% of implements use. You may need to flip that plate over if the Mid mount mower requires the higher rpm. Just be aware, if you switch the plate over, that you do not want to use a 540rpm rated implement at the higher rpm

3rd, you are using the clutch? I never engaged the PTO on my B8200 without using the clutch... The other thing is, on occasion mine did not go right in to gear, I would double clutch it.

What Scout camp are you at? My son(and Troop) is leaving this coming Saturday for Camp Fiesta Island in San Diego; primarily water front based camp. Our Troop just got back from Camp Lassen near Lassen Park in N. Calif.

I'm sitting out camp this year, to do work on my house...

RobertN
ASM T117 Shingle Springs
"I used to be a Buffalo, a good old Buffalo too,,,"

 

[JoeDaly]

RobertN, thanks for your reply.

I do engage the PTO at low RPM then bring it up. From what you've said here, I think my plate is in the position where I can get it into both speeds. My flail mower worked on 540rpm only, but my new mid-mounted says to "use the 2nd speed" in the instruction manual, and the diagram indicates to push the lever down into the higher speed.

You mention the clutch.... Which clutch are you talking about? I've got a horrible feeling that there's a clutch for the PTO but my dealer never showed it to me?!

I'm at a Scout camp just outside Manchester, England. We've got 35 acres of woodland with grass camping areas, and a large boating lake. It's a lovely place

 

[RobertN]

Idle that tractor... I can see why it might be crunchy/grind at higher rpm

Your's is like my old tractor; one clutch. Make sure to use the clutch; if not you'll really be grinding the gears.

Do you have a manual? They are still available. My B8200 was the model before the B2150. It was only about $16US. And, it gives maintenance schedule, where to grease, ect.

Thanks for your replies everyone.

I have been engaging the PTO with the revs at around 1000rpm, so just over idling speed.

I'm only using it to mow fields with fairly thin and short grass.

8x56mn, you mention depressing the clutch when trying to engage. Is there a seperate clutch for the PTO or are you referring to the main clutch?

I might have a look for a diagram regarding the removable bracket to change the PTO speeds.

Thanks,
Joe.

 

[JoeDaly]

So push down the clutch and engage the PTO at low revs?

Thanks for your help everyone

 

[KubieTwo]

This is a slight deviation from the original question but may be worth noting. Some are using the PTO higher speed selection with full knowledge they can do this and run the engine at lower speed only when the attachment does not require much horsepower or the engine is of sufficient size to generate the required power at lower rpms. Others may try this with less than expected results and not know why they weren't successful.

If the tractor in question has to run at 2500 rpm to turn the attachment at 540rpm, they quickly conclude they need to run the engine at only 1250 if they have a 1000 rpm PTO speed. In reality, a typical compact or subcompact diesel engine that will make 22hp at 2600 rpm will only make about 10-11 hp at 1250 rpm. If the attachment needs 18-20 hp to handle the load, it will not be available at 1250 rpm on a 20-25 hp tractor. It can't do the work required. If you have a 50hp tractor, you may be ok with the same implement doing the same task, so it depends on your tractor and load. I have seen people try to power generators at 1000 PTO rpm then complain about the generator when it would not handle rated power load. It probably would have at 540 PTO speed and higher engine rpm, or handled the load well with twice the tractor. Running lower engine rpm doesn't necessarily burn less fuel either, because it requires consumption of a given amount of fuel to create a certain amount of horsepower, and an engine may not be nearly as efficient at 1250 as it is at 2500 if it was designed to run in the higher speed range.

 

[8x56mn]

I agree, that's why I said listen to see how it sounds and how it cuts the grass. I recall running mine at around 2000 rpm's and it would hum away at the maximum pto speed. You just have to experiment with it a little. Never try to engage the pto without depressing the clutch pedal, you値l just going grind the gears and if it does engage you'll result in catastrophic results.

 

[kevinj]

So push down the clutch and engage the PTO at low revs?

Thanks for your help everyone

Are you saying that you been engageing without pushing the clutch????

I have one that needs the clutch and two that are hydraulic engage(no clutch)

 

[JoeDaly]

Oh dear.

Yes, I have been engaging the PTO without pushing in the clutch (as the dealer taught me how to when he sold me the machine). I suspect this has been a contributing factor to yesterdays damage.

However, when the PTO was engaged, depressing the clutch pedal made no difference whatsoever. It just kept spinning...

I've just been underneath and had a look. There appears to be a rod attached to the clutch pedal which runs to the back of the machine (towards the PTO area). Pushing down the clutch pedal does not move this rod. The rod appears to be held in a fixed position by a spring.

Anyone got any ideas? I can attach pics if this helps.

Cheers,
Joe.

 

[kevinj]

Oh dear.

Yes, I have been engaging the PTO without pushing in the clutch (as the dealer taught me how to when he sold me the machine). I suspect this has been a contributing factor to yesterdays damage.


Anyone got any ideas? I can attach pics if this helps.

Cheers,
Joe.

Do you have a manual???? What does it say about PTO operation????

If the the PTO runs with the clutch pressed there may be other issues.

Maybe find a different dealer.

All I am pointing out is that MY B model needs to be engaged by using the clutch.

The self engaging do not grind as they use a clutch pack rather than meshing gears.

 

[RobertN]

Internal overrunning clutch?

My old Kubota would do that when I had the rear rotary on. It would spin for a long time. Pretty sure that was because of the internal overrun clutch.

The manuals went with my tractor; I am not sure, but I think the overrunning clutch affects the mid PTO too?

My current New Holland, has a live PTO, with a hydraulic clutch, and a PTO brake. It does not do that...

This sounds a lot like you need manuals... As I mentioned before, my owner manual was about $US16. I think the shop manual was about $US100(that was 12 years ago...)

However, when the PTO was engaged, depressing the clutch pedal made no difference whatsoever. It just kept spinning...

 

[JoeDaly]

Hmm... think the manual sounds like the best bet. I've found a new dealer now, so hopefully he'll be able to get a manual for me.

Cheers.

 

[8x56mn]

If you push down on he clutch and the rod doesn't move then you deffinatly have a problem. If you were trying to engage without depressing the clutch and the dealor told you to do it that way I would be asking him to pay for the repair. Normal operation is depress the clutch pedal, engage the pto lever, let out the clutch slowly and you will hear the pto shaft turn your implament if in transmission is in nuetral the pto spins and your tractor doesn't move. Depress again, put gear shift in gear and let out the clutch pedal slowly, first the pto engages and letting out a little furthue and the transmision engages and moves your tractor. It's pto engagement first and then a little furthur the clutch engages the transmission, make sense?:thumbsup:

 

[niemeyjt]

As others say - 100% use the clutch to engage the PTO on the B50 models (B1550/1750/2150). Let pedal up slowly as speed of implement picks up.

For the Hymari, you should have been using the slower (540 RPM) rear PTO setting. If you were running it at the higher setting (750 RPM) that maybe why it broke!

I note on the 2150, the mid PTO actually turns both at low and high speed setting (1700RPM and 2355 RPM).

As for mid-mount mower, also make sure you have the correct model for the tractor and run it at higher PTO speed (when fixed) - which may necessitate moving a plate as others have said.

I cannot see an online operators manual, but the kubotabooks site does have a parts manual for the tractor.

J

 

[JoeDaly]

Ok... so we've been engaging the PTO without depressing the clutch. I'm guessing that the dealer told us to do this because the clutch has no effect on the PTO. Something somewhere is broken.

I'm going to take it to pieces this weekend and see what happens. Thanks for the link to the parts manual, that will make life much easier!

Thanks for all your replies, I'll keep you updated!

 

[KubieTwo]

All I am pointing out is that MY B model needs to be engaged by using the clutch.

The self engaging do not grind as they use a clutch pack rather than meshing gears.

My B7510HST has gear engaged PTO and would certainly grind if I did not use the clutch, (which I always do.) but I have bumped the PTO lever before and it protested with gear grinding.

My L5030GST, on the other hand, uses clutch pack engagement, and I lower the throttle when I engage the PTO. Not further clutching required.