L2501 with HST

[MossyDell]

How does an L2501 work with brakes on same foot as the HST pedal?

I've been looking a Kubota for my next tractor. Have pretty much set my mind on a B2301 but decided to look at the L2501 since it is so popular.

Real deal breaker seems to be the brake pedals on same side as the HST treddle. No way can you use the steering brakes unless you put the HST on "cruise". Just won't work for snow removal or pushing of big pieces with the FEL when the steering won't work, etc.

I thought Kubota had moved all the brake pedals to the left side. I suspect that design team forgot or never knew, in the age of hydrostat, about split turning brakes. They must have thought if you foot was off the treadle pedal it had to be up, braking.

 

[Mudfarmer]

I used to use the split brakes on my old Ford 1700 a lot, but that tractor did not have power steering. My Kubota B2710 has the brake pedal right next to the rocker pedal on the right - always thought that was nonsensical, but with power steering didn't really need the split brakes. Kubota has apparently seen the light - my B2650 (new a year ago) has the brake pedal on the left and completely eliminated the clutch pedal. It starts and drives like a car - pretty good beginner tractor. But I still don't use the split brakes much.
MF

 

[beenthere]

How does an L2501 work with brakes on same foot as the HST pedal?

I've been looking a Kubota for my next tractor. Have pretty much set my mind on a B2301 but decided to look at the L2501 since it is so popular.

Real deal breaker seems to be the brake pedals on same side as the HST treddle. No way can you use the steering brakes unless you put the HST on "cruise". Just won't work for snow removal or pushing of big pieces with the FEL when the steering won't work, etc.

Just move the left foot over to the right side and have both feet there when needed. Wouldn't work for me, but you may be more limber.

 

[jyoutz]

Kinda side saddle and left foot braking is what I do on my MX.

Up until recently Kubota was still using a clutch pedal on HST models....

Now that they have gone away from that, I'd expect to maybe see some left side brakes.

My new MX6000 HST has brakes on the left.

 

[LD1]

My new MX6000 HST has brakes on the left.

Yea, that's all disappointing to me. I still like a clutch pedal even with HST

 

[MossyDell]

I thought Kubota had moved all the brake pedals to the left side. I suspect that design team forgot or never knew, in the age of hydrostat, about split turning brakes. They must have thought if you foot was off the treadle pedal it had to be up, braking.

I've read up more on the L2501 and disagree with myself. The tractor appears to have been envisioned primarily as a gear tractor. As such, the brakes on the right and clutch on the left are the traditional layout. When they make such a tractor hydrostatic, they don't move the brakes. I am not saying this is optimum but I think it must be Kubota's reason for that weird layout.

 

[s219]

I've read up more on the L2501 and disagree with myself. The tractor appears to have been envisioned primarily as a gear tractor. As such, the brakes on the right and clutch on the left are the traditional layout. When they make such a tractor hydrostatic, they don't move the brakes. I am not saying this is optimum but I think it must be Kubota's reason for that weird layout.

Up until recent models they still had a clutch pedal on the HST models. Don't know the reasons (perhaps integration commonality with the gear and shuttle models) but it is used on those older models for certain operations, like shifting the speed range lever and engaging/disengaging the PTO (which uses a dog clutch on a shaft to engage). So that was on the tractor for a reason, and the pedal went on the left, which meant brakes were on the right. The newer models did away with the clutch when they went to an improved PTO system. I wonder if improvements were made to allow easier gear range changes without a clutch. It is fussy on my tractor even with a clutch. Technically the clutch isn't required but it helps when the gear dogs are not quite lined up. You can clutch in and then blip the HST treadle to line up the dogs.

 

[Fallon]

Up until recent models they still had a clutch pedal on the HST models. Don't know the reasons (perhaps integration commonality with the gear and shuttle models) but it is used on those older models for certain operations, like shifting the speed range lever and engaging/disengaging the PTO (which uses a dog clutch on a shaft to engage). So that was on the tractor for a reason, and the pedal went on the left, which meant brakes were on the right. The newer models did away with the clutch when they went to an improved PTO system. I wonder if improvements were made to allow easier gear range changes without a clutch. It is fussy on my tractor even with a clutch. Technically the clutch isn't required but it helps when the gear dogs are not quite lined up. You can clutch in and then blip the HST treadle to line up the dogs.

Shifting the 3 speed on a fancy expensive Grand L with no clutch sucks as much as on an economy L with a clutch. You learn to bump the go pedal for a fraction of a second or to let the machine roll 1-3" so it will shift. Annoying, but not a problem. HST+ just means rarely having to shift between ranges.

On my old L3200 the clutch was required for engaging the PTO. Technically disengaging too, but I usually didn't bother if there was no load. It has a safety sensor too for starting, but that was probably a commonality with gear drive machines & not really needed. I'm not clear if it had a 2 stage clutch or single stage. The only time you used it was for starting or PTO so it really didn't matter.

On the past few generations of Grand L there have been no driveteain clutches on the HST models as it was an electricity activated hydraulic PTO clutch. That frees up room on the left for brakes. You kind of need to activate both brakes & clutch for an emergency stop or even a normal stop on a geared machine. So it makes sense to force the pedals on opposite sides of the steering column. To keep costs, engineering & parts to stock down especially on the economy models they keep the same pedal assembly between transmission types. Not perfect, but quite OK enough to operate just fine.

A live PTO can power the transmission backwards due to inerta & keep driving the machine forward with the clutch in. Quite a problem with a gear machine when the inertia of a brush hog keeps you going into a ditch with the clutch in. Irrelevant problem on a HST as pulling your foot off the go pedal makes it irrelevant if the clutch is in or the tranny is being spun by the PTO.

 

[rScotty]

I keep thinking that having a foot clutch on our HST+ should make it easier to shift ranges, & so far am not able to convince myself it makes a difference. It's about the same for the electronic HST controls....

The Kubota Operator manual says that the range shifting on their HST+ can be difficult - congratulations to them for honesty there - and that range shifting can only be done at a full stop, not on a slope, and blipping the pedal is allowed to make shifting easier. All true for ours.

The real value to me in the HST+ is the High/Low dual speed lever on the steering column. It can be shifted with the tip of a finger, it's near instantaneous, and it CAN be shifted on the fly. I'll shift ours half a dozen times doing one loader pass. So you get the advantage of shifting ranges without the difficult stopping & shifting. At the end of the day that is a huge amount of stopping and difficult hand range shifting I didn't have to do.
rScotty

 

[Jchonline]

I don't know how you would use those steering brakes. Hopefully you won't have to do much of that with the HST. Our M59 has the same thing with brakes and F/R pedal on the same side. Being a largish tractor with a flat floor it has enough room to make it work....uh, sort of work... well, if you stand up and lean to one side while holding onto the front canopy support it you can make it work..... kind of...

Come to think of it, far and away the most complaints about Kubotas that I've heard in the last 15 years are all about the placement of the controls. Feet, seat, and levers are all uniformly poorly designed and poorly placed. Isn't that odd?

One of the world's most popular tractors and they still can't get that part right.
If it wasn't for the way the operator controls are laid out there there wouldn't be much to say against Kubotas. Maybe that's why they do it?
rScotty

Interesting. M62 brakes are on the left side of the console.

 

[Jchonline]

Yea, that's all disappointing to me. I still like a clutch pedal even with HST

Does your MX5100 HST have a clutch pedal? I had no idea they ever did it.

Even larger gear tractors try and get around a clutch…M4D has a de-clutch button on the shifter you can hit instead of the pedal.

 

[rScotty]

Interesting. M62 brakes are on the left side of the console.

On the Left! Where you actually have a free foot to work them? Oh, what a revolution that must have been in the design room !

I can just imagine the anguish of the old school anti-ergonomic group....engineers screaming, advertising artists being forcefully restrained, comptrollers kept away from open windows...

Hopefully, no-one was hurt and nothing went missing. BTW, where did they put that PTO clutch?

rScotty

 

[DK35vince]

A live PTO can power the transmission backwards due to inerta & keep driving the machine forward with the clutch in. Quite a problem with a gear machine when the inertia of a brush hog keeps you going into a ditch with the clutch in.

That was true on a few gear tractors with transmission driven PTO 50-60 years ago. (like an 8N)
Certainly hasn't been that way for decades

 

[rScotty]

That was true on a few gear tractors with transmission driven PTO 50-60 years ago. (like an 8N)
Certainly hasn't been that way for decades

The cure is an over-running clutch into the PTO drive line. That doesn't help with engagement against a sudden load (shear pins do that). But it rachets instead of allowing the implement inertia to drive the tractor forward.
rScotty

 

[LD1]

Does your MX5100 HST have a clutch pedal? I had no idea they ever did it.

Even larger gear tractors try and get around a clutch…M4D has a de-clutch button on the shifter you can hit instead of the pedal.

Yes....the mx5100 still has clutch pedal.

I run my tractor for a mowing business with an 8' twin spindle. I cut about 500 acres a year in total. Bunch of 1-5 acre jobs....throw in a few 20-30 acre jobs.

I like the ability in an "oh $hit" moment to stomp the clutch and raise the cutter if I start banging over a rock, stump, log, tangled in fence, etc. Don't want to have to try and reach beside the seat in a panic and try to find the little pto lever. Growing up on old iron....hitting the clutch is instinctive

 

[s219]

Yes....the mx5100 still has clutch pedal.

I run my tractor for a mowing business with an 8' twin spindle. I cut about 500 acres a year in total. Bunch of 1-5 acre jobs....throw in a few 20-30 acre jobs.

I like the ability in an "oh $hit" moment to stomp the clutch and raise the cutter if I start banging over a rock, stump, log, tangled in fence, etc. Don't want to have to try and reach beside the seat in a panic and try to find the little pto lever. Growing up on old iron....hitting the clutch is instinctive

I agree, same deal when mowing with my L3200, if anything goes wrong I stomp the clutch pedal quickly and it's a pretty effective safety cutoff.

 

[Jchonline]

Hopefully, no-one was hurt and nothing went missing. BTW, where did they put that PTO clutch?

rScotty

Behind the range shifter (LMH).

 

[rScotty]

Behind the range shifter (LMH).

Well that makes good sense. I was afraid they would put it on the floor - in that nice flat area next to the seat where your feet need to be to turn the seat around.

 

[LouNY]

I use the cruise control on my 3901 when I need the steering brakes. Tractor brakes were never meant to stop just turning or holding in place

WHAT?
My tractor brakes are stopping the tractor and the load behind it. Going down a steep grade I may even need to feather some brake to keep the engine rpms down.

 

[RalphVa]

I use both the tractor brakes and HST going down steep grades here on our property. That's why I started this.