L48 or L4610?

[hayden]

Assuming one wants a loader and backhoe, which I do, then why should I want an L4610 over an L48?

The L48 has more HP, more hydraulic flow, more loader lift, more BH power, and still has a 3PH for all the 3PH stuff, which by the way has more lift capacity. The loader, BH, and 3PH lift numbers are significantly higher too, not just a bit higher.

So why would anyone buy a 4610?

Maybe price? Is the L48 much more expensive?

High techie, reciently founded a startup company and struggling for tractor time.

 

[JATO_RaT]

The L48 has more displacement but no more HP, in fact, the PTO HP is slightly less. The L4610 has a removable loader, tighter turning radius, a cab is available for it and the L4610 is slightly smaller and lighter.

The L48 has a considerably stronger loader, very strong backhoe support, more hydrualic pump capacity for the loader or hoe, planetary gearset on the rear end, 1000lbs more 3pt lift capacity, larger fuel tank, higher displacement engine, swivel seat to the right as well as 180 deg. for backhoe users, full FOPS/ROPS protection, a well laid out control setup and about a $5000 higher price tag.

I have been looking at both. While the L 4610 is a great machine and I have no need for a cab, the L 48 is considerably beefier. I will not need a hoe, my need to be able to remove the loader is minimal. My greatest reason for considering the L 48 over the L4610 HST is because of the loader. For only $5000 more, it seems a small price to pay for the number of years I will anticipate owning it.

I hope this helps you, there are more differences between them, small ones like the 4610 having cruise control and none on the L48, but go look at them, they are both great tractors, Rat...

 

[MarkV]

Rat,

You covered about everything I can think of. Do you know, doesn’t the L4610 come with the telescoping 3pt arms? I don’t think they do on the L48. Also, are extra hydraulics, and T&T available as a factory option on the L48?

MarkV

 

[HR_Mutt]

hayden
<font color=blue>So why would anyone buy a L4610?</font color=blue>
After renting a L48 for the back hoe only and owning a L4610 for about 9 months and using both on my property I'll only offer the following.
The power of the backhoe is awesome, however I would not like to put it on and take it off as often as I change attachments.
While the FEL capacity was greater on the L48, I did not see an increase in work performed while using it. In fact, I left the FEL work to wait for the lift cyl. repair on the L4610.
Wish I could type my gut feeling on this one...I'll rent the L48 again in about a month for the backhoe use, but I wouldn't trade the L4610 for it even up!
regards
Mutt

 

[JATO_RaT]

The L 4610 does have telescoping arms. The L 48 can be ordered with Kubotas TNT according to the brochure.

I'm not sure if HR Mutt got a L48 with a malfunctioning loader or not, but my experience and the 2 dealers I spoke too both mentioned their preferences for the L48 over the L 4610 for the extra steel and loader the L 48 carries. The L48's lift, breakout, and bucket capacity are 2540lbs, 4375lbs and 18 cu. ft. The L 4610's lift, breakout, and bucket capacity are 1830lbs, 3055lbs, and 13 cu. ft. After that, they are essentially the same machine in terms of funtion. HST is identical, engines vary only by displacment, the L 4610 has the same diesel as the L4310, just more HP at a higher RPM. Rear end on the L48 is bigger and planetary driven. Rollback angle on the buckets differ by 10 degs. The L 48 is 45 degs while the L4610 is 35 degs, another bonus that becomes noticable when you hand load material. The L 48 offers hydraulic self leveling which is useful for some, especially when forks are put on the loader. The L4610 weighs 4200lbs with loader where the L48 is about 5500lbs in the same configuration (no hoe). Main hydraulic pumps are L4610, 9.6 GPM, L48 is 12.7 gpm. Power steering is L4610, 4.8 gpm and the L48 is 5.9 gpm. Both tractors are great units, I've driven the L4610 HST. The HST pedal on the L48 is bigger and accomodates my size 14 boot better, other then that, very similar. I would be quite happy with either. If clearance and the ability to remove the loader are important, the L 4610 is definitely the one to get. Rat...

P.S. I was quoted about $3300 more for the L 48 over the L 4610 HST with R4's/ and loader

 

[hayden]

How different is removing an L48 backhoe verses removing a Bradco backhoe. Seems to me like they would be the same. Any opinions?

High techie, reciently founded a startup company and struggling for tractor time.

 

[JATO_RaT]

I don't know since I have never done it. Looking at the L 48 hoe, setup looks very simple. I understand the most time consuming part is removing the 3 pt. arms and stabilizers and putting them on the designated storage points on the tractor. Rat...

 

[johnjc]

I now have 26 hours on my L48 and am very pleased with it so far. The HST took a little getting used to. more peddle = less power

Have the following observations.

My biggest complaint with the loader is with the hydraulic control. When using the bucket to spread dirt I like to curl the bucket back under and drag backwards. When applying down force I ether go into float or lose the curl . Wish it had two separate hydraulic controls like my Case 580. This also shows up after moving the tractor when using the backhoe. Louse curl when setting the bucket down.

When driving forward to fill the loader bucket I like to lift and curl the bucket backwards at the same time to get a full load. Doesn't have enough curl force to curl unless I back off on the HST.

I got the heavy duty loader bucket without the replaceable cutting edge because I want a tooth bar. In the mean time I'm left with a sort off blunt cutting edge that is hard to bush into the dirt. Also the sides of the bucket are not sharpened This may be the cause of Mr Mutt comments. By the way I got a price of $310 + $? UPS "Leonard Sheaffer" has anyone ordered a tooth bar from him "

Taking the backhoe off is quick and simple however adjusting and mounting the 3 point hitch parts in the storage place is a big pain so they are laying on my diesel fuel tank when I have the hoe mounted.

Wish I had more legroom when using the backhoe it would be more comfortable.

Left front tire is rubbing on the guard when turning hard right.

John

 

[JATO_RaT]

John, I'm a little puzzled about your loader comment. Are you saying that when leveling with the loader you cannot place the bucket position (not the loader height position) where you want it and keep it there? I often use the bucket for leveling using it in a variety of ways and curl positions depending on what I am doing. I use a Kubota L4850 primarily and occasionally a Ford/NH 2120. I would like to know more about this apparent problem you have. Could it be related to the self-leveling ability of the bucket? I also wonder why it was designed not to be taken out of self-level. Also, the point you made about the ability or inability of the tractor to push into a pile of dirt as easily as it seems it should because perhaps the edges were blunt, it puzzles me and the only explanation I can think of is a lack of power particularly when the added weight of the hoe is there. Do you notice a difference with the hoe off when using the loader? Thanks, Rat...

 

[johnjc]

<font color=red> John, I'm a little puzzled about your loader comment. Are you saying that when leveling with the loader you cannot place the bucket position (not the loader height position) where you want it and keep it there? </font color=red>

I can get it into position but when I put pressure on it It doesn't hold except when curled clear back or slanted forward. Another words if the bottom of the bucket is vertical and I drag back it uncurls. It like the relief valve is set to low.

<font color=red> Could it be related to the self-leveling ability of the bucket? </font color=red>

Just went out in the dark and with tractor on the trailer and did a test. If I curl the bucket back and then lower it, it uncurls. If I hold it to the right and lower it, it stays curled but if you go to far forward you lose down pressure.

<font color=red> I also wonder why it was designed not to be taken out of self-level. </font color=red>

Good question.

<font color=red> Also, the point you made about the ability or inability of the tractor to push into a pile of dirt as easily as it seems it should because perhaps the edges were blunt, it puzzles me and the only explanation I can think of is a lack of power particularly when the added weight of the hoe is there. </font color=red>

I don't think it is a lack of power although I am still not to good at controlling the HST .
I have the heavy duty bucket with out the replaceable cutting edge so it is thick and dull.
Also I have been using the tractor to cut a building site for a cabin into the side of a ridge and it is shale rock that I have to break up with the hoe. Pushing the bucket into that takes a lot of power.

<font color=red> Do you notice a difference with the hoe off when using the loader? Thanks, Rat... </font color=red>

I haven't tried using the loader without the hoe

 

[hayden]

It sure sounds like the self-leveling is causing what you're seeing on the loader.

As for "push power", I find on my 2910 that without the BH I can spin the wheels pushing into a pile. With the BH on it's pretty much impossible to sping the wheels. The engine gives out before I lose traction. This is why I'm a total believer in weight.

High techie, reciently founded a startup company and struggling for tractor time.

 

[MarkV]

John,

I think I would get your loader checked out. The self leveling on my B21 will change the bucket curl as the loader arms are raised to keep the bucket level. When I have the bucket on the ground I often curl forward to back drag with the tooth bar as a rake or curl back to use the back edge of the bucket (square bucket) to smooth. Even if I lift the front tires off the ground, the bucket will remain as set.

I think the self leveling system on the L48 is hydraulic and it is mechanical on the B21. Even with differnt systems it is hard to believe you can't lock the bucket for back dragging. I think something is set wrong on your control system.


MarkV

 

[johnjc]

My tractor has an appointment with Dr, Dealer Tuesday to check the hydraulic pressure . Will let you know how it comes out.
John

 

[JATO_RaT]

Hey John, any news about your tractor, anxiously waiting to hear. Still debating on the L 48TL (no hoe) or the L4610 HST, R4's and loader. The difference in price is about 3300 dollars, the L 48 being more expensive. Rat...

 

[johnjc]

Dropped the tractor off Saturday because I needed to haul cement blocks out to my ground and bring back firewood. The appointment was for today (Tuesday) but I didn't get a call. I had told them that I wouldn't be using it this week so maybe they didn't get started. Or again maybe it's real bad. Now you have got me worried. I will let you know when they call.

 

[foz]

Traded my L3600 GST on L48 in April, have +/-200Hrs on the L48 now. After removing the backhoe a couple of times, I can now remove the hoe & have the 3pt setup in abot 10 to 15 minutes. If you don't need the extra capacity of the hoe & are likely to change 3pt implements often, I would go with the L4610. However, I swaped because I use my unit commercially most often with the backhoe. As far as the down pressure on the front bucket, it is a relief valve design flaw that according to my dealer, Kubota is intending to offer replacements to fix. If you bought a L48 I would be sure to get this corrected before taking delivery. The loader has a much greater capacity & strength than my old L3600 so yes I think the power is worth the extra $$.

 

[MarkV]

Foz,

Thanks for the information. There are several of us looking at the L48 and only a few owners on the forum, so we enjoy all the information you can offer.

Hard to believe that Kubota didn't figure out the relief valve issue before introduction. It isn't like it is rare for someone to want down pressure on the loader bucket.

MarkV

 

[johnjc]

L48 Loader Problems

Just got off the phone with Dr. Dealer. I had ask to have four things checked and this is the status.
1. Left front tire rubbing guard over steering rod. They realigned (bent) it out of the way.
2. When using the loader and you don't have the transport pins in the backhoe it slowly drifts to the right takes 5 minutes or so. Thery aren't seeing this one.
3. After running the backhoe for about 3 hr. the lift cylinder gets very hot. Told me this is normal. Has anyone seen this on other Kubotas.
4. Loader has low curl power, and won't hold position when dragging the bucket backwards, to level dirt. Kubota knows about this one and has faxed a parts list to replace one of the Loader Spool Valves. Parts should be here in about 3 or 4 days

 

[JATO_RaT]

Re: L48 Loader Problems

"After running the backhoe for about 3 hr. the lift cylinder gets very hot. Told me this is normal. Has anyone seen this on other Kubotas."

John, I suspect this is quite normal. Cylinders get hot from the oil. The more the cylinder is used, the more often that new, hot oil gets to keep heating things up. Unless its burning the paint, I would not be concerned. Thats the report about the curl/loader problem eh, sounds simple enough. The dealer told me that big valve body below the loader control valve is the hydraulic loader/leveler valve. It sure is big for what little it needs to do. Rat...


P.S. while looking at a brand new L48 at a local dealer yesterday, I could not help but notice not only did it have a horn button, but also a light switch knob and PTO engagement lever that looks to be built by Playskool or Tonka. With all the steel in the machine, the knob and lever are a bit anemic. The rest of the machine looks great.

 

[MarkV]

Re: L48 Loader Problems

Johnjc,

Glad to hear the dealer is taking care of your baby. I have a B21 and the lift cylinder can get pretty hot after doing a hard dig session. Of course the B21 is much smaller than your L48, so I don't know if it is fair to make a comarison.

MarkV