Law Enforcement

/ Law Enforcement #81  
Gator6x4 said:
. So surprise the FBI probably has your fingerprints on file and another individual who is black with the same name and birthdate also on file. What a shocker.

I think there is an important point being missed, here. Sure, there likely is someone in this country with the same name, though I'm a junior and that makes it more rare, but not everyone with the same name shares the same license number. In order for this guy to get tickets in my name, how did it get on my license? And my race, hair and eye color shows up on my license. So, if police, either before or after arrest, have access to that info then race isn't the only factor. Though this guy was hardly confusingly mixed race, unless he dyed his hair blonde and wore blue tinted contacts I don't see how there could be confusion.

Fake license, sure, hacking the dmv mainframe to edit the real data? Not likely.

Everyone stopped at race, yet there is far more info on a license. So, back to the original question, what shows up when a license number is run? Just race and DOB? I figure there is no picture, as the database would be too big, especially back then, but hair and eye color, weight, age, height?

This guy was roughly my height (a little taller) and age (about ten years older), but that is as similar as it got. It sounds as though him being female would have been the only thing to make police question the authenticity of the license.

Apparently id theft is the way to go when it comes to getting away with anything.

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/ Law Enforcement #82  
I stopped at race because I really no longer have any great interest in the subject, but I have seen physical descriptions vary on one individual with different forms of ID, blue, hazel, green eyes, people dye their hair etc.

We were required to take new pictures every three years or anytime an individual's appearance changed. We made our data base open to other systems as our identifiers were often more accurate.

License offices here vary in quality from one to the other and what is fed into the system may be accurate and may not, it is not done by law enforcement, but rather Department of Revenue License Bureau.

I guess a better result could be to have law enforcement check us all out personally, prohibit colored contacts, hair dye and a weight maintenance plan, but that will only cut down, not eliminate miss-identification.

For some there will always be too much or too little law enforcement involvement. For me, which is which varies on my mood that day and what's going on.

Heading out to the tractor, have a good day everyone.:):thumbsup:
 
/ Law Enforcement
  • Thread Starter
#83  
I think there is an important point being missed, here. Sure, there likely is someone in this country with the same name, though I'm a junior and that makes it more rare, but not everyone with the same name shares the same license number. In order for this guy to get tickets in my name, how did it get on my license? And my race, hair and eye color shows up on my license. So, if police, either before or after arrest, have access to that info then race isn't the only factor. Though this guy was hardly confusingly mixed race, unless he dyed his hair blonde and wore blue tinted contacts I don't see how there could be confusion.

Fake license, sure, hacking the dmv mainframe to edit the real data? Not likely.

Everyone stopped at race, yet there is far more info on a license. So, back to the original question, what shows up when a license number is run? Just race and DOB? I figure there is no picture, as the database would be too big, especially back then, but hair and eye color, weight, age, height?

This guy was roughly my height (a little taller) and age (about ten years older), but that is as similar as it got. It sounds as though him being female would have been the only thing to make police question the authenticity of the license.

Apparently id theft is the way to go when it comes to getting away with anything.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using TractorByNet

Let me give you a short course on how to break law. Steal someone of the same sexs personal identification. Memorize the drivers license number, date of birth and SS# if different than number on the drivers license. Now go to the DMV in your state and ask for a duplicate license, tell them you lost yours. Walk out the door with a new license bearing your face. Now you have a photo ID. Years ago some over the road truck drivers had three or four sets of drivers license.
 
/ Law Enforcement
  • Thread Starter
#84  
I think there is an important point being missed, here. Sure, there likely is someone in this country with the same name, though I'm a junior and that makes it more rare, but not everyone with the same name shares the same license number. In order for this guy to get tickets in my name, how did it get on my license? And my race, hair and eye color shows up on my license. So, if police, either before or after arrest, have access to that info then race isn't the only factor. Though this guy was hardly confusingly mixed race, unless he dyed his hair blonde and wore blue tinted contacts I don't see how there could be confusion.

Fake license, sure, hacking the dmv mainframe to edit the real data? Not likely.

Everyone stopped at race, yet there is far more info on a license. So, back to the original question, what shows up when a license number is run? Just race and DOB? I figure there is no picture, as the database would be too big, especially back then, but hair and eye color, weight, age, height?

This guy was roughly my height (a little taller) and age (about ten years older), but that is as similar as it got. It sounds as though him being female would have been the only thing to make police question the authenticity of the license.

Apparently id theft is the way to go when it comes to getting away with anything.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using TractorByNet

Let me give you a short course on how to break law. Steal someone of the same sexs personal identification. Memorize the drivers license number, date of birth and SS# if different than number on the drivers license. Now go to the DMV in your state and ask for a duplicate license, tell them you lost yours. Walk out the door with a new license bearing your face. Now you have a photo ID to use for cashing checks and other transactions. Years ago some over the road truck drivers had three or four sets of drivers license.

Did you read the article on states who objected after 9-11 to the Federal Government inacting legislation having them put safe guards in place to prevent individuals from having or carrying multipile drivers licenses and other ID's?
 
/ Law Enforcement #85  
Gator6x4 said:
Let me give you a short course on how to break law. Steal someone of the same sexs personal identification. Memorize the drivers license number, date of birth and SS# if different than number on the drivers license. Now go to the DMV in your state and ask for a duplicate license, tell them you lost yours. Walk out the door with a new license bearing your face. Now you have a photo ID. Years ago some over the road truck drivers had three or four sets of drivers license.

I had no idea it was so easy. That certainly explains how he has gotten away with it so easily. I wish that was explained to me from day one. Even perfect police work would not uncover that type of id theft. That makes sense. Thank you.

Did you read the article on states who objected after 9-11 to the Federal Government inacting legislation having them put safe guards in place to prevent individuals from having or carrying multipile drivers licenses and other ID's?

They didn't fight the safeguards against fraud, they fought the feds having free, suspicionless access to it, which was buried in the same legislation. Two different animals.

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Last edited:
/ Law Enforcement #86  
If you write checks, or have written checks, in certain stores the clerk has access to your DL#, DOB, description, phone#, and your banking information.
 
/ Law Enforcement
  • Thread Starter
#87  
They didn't fight the safeguards against fraud, they fought the feds having free, suspicionless access to it, which was buried in the same legislation. Two different animals.

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Really I didn't see that. I don't think the Law Enforcement Agencies of the Federal Government having access would be an invasion of anyone privacy. The only way to prevent crime is tro share information and strip away that cloak of invisibilty that the criminal element hides behind while hollering invasion of privacy. Here is the complete article:

WASHINGTON, Feb. 4 — Opposition among state officials is turning into an open revolt against a federal law calling for the creation of standardized driver’s licenses nationwide that are meant to be less vulnerable to fraud.

Maine legislators started off the rebellion late last month by passing a nonbinding resolution that rejected the law, called the Real ID Act, which Congress passed in 2005. They said that it would cost the state $185 million to put into place and that instead of making Maine’s residents more secure, it would leave them more vulnerable to identity theft.

Since then, legislatures in five states — Georgia, Montana, New Mexico, Washington and Wyoming — have voted in committee or on the floor of one chamber to move similar legislation ahead. The bill adopted in a 99-to-1 vote by the Montana House of Representatives would go furthest, ordering state officials there to ignore the federal law.

Unless the federal law is revised, any state that defies it will risk causing major inconvenience for its residents, as noncompliant licenses will not be accepted as a proof of identification at airports, federal buildings or when applying for federal benefits.

What state officials are hoping is that Congress will repeal or modify the law, or at least provide some of the billions of dollars the states claim it will cost to establish the new licensing system nationwide.

The campaign features an odd mix of liberal Democrats, offended by a measure in the law that would effectively block illegal immigrants from getting federally compliant driver’s licenses, and conservative Republicans, who see the law as an affront to civil liberties and to states’ rights.

“This is a frontal assault on our freedoms,” said State Representative Jim Guest of Missouri, a Republican who said he was working with more than two dozen states to pass laws opposing the federal statute. “One state standing alone is not enough. But we are already gaining strong momentum here.”

Some states are not going as far as others. Vermont passed a law that would not defy the federal statute but called for more federal financial assistance in carrying it out.

Representative F. James Sensenbrenner Jr., Republican of Wisconsin, who led the effort in Congress to pass the 2005 law, as well as top officials at the Department of Homeland Security in Washington, said they were disturbed by the growing signs of a revolt.

“Certainly, it is a threat,” Mr. Sensenbrenner said Saturday in an interview.

Representative Thomas M. Davis III, Republican of Virginia, wrote a letter last week to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff asking him what would happen to the federal program if individual states opted out.

Mr. Sensenbrenner attributed the growing resistance to the department’s tardiness in publishing rules telling the states what they must do under the law, which calls for new licenses to be issued starting in May 2008. He said that had led to misconceptions about the program’s costs and vulnerabilities. Mr. Sensenbrenner estimated that the real costs for states nationwide would not exceed about $100 million.

Federal officials acknowledge that with the final regulations not coming out until this summer, it is likely that some states will not be ready to begin issuing licenses on schedule.

The Real ID Act requires states to confirm that documents submitted to get driver’s licenses — like a birth certificate or a passport — are legitimate and that the applicants are in the United States legally. States will also have to check a linked database of state licensing data to make sure that applicants do not already have a license in another state and that they have not been banned from driving elsewhere.

The law effectively requires that all existing licenses be replaced by 2013.

The push to pass the law grew out of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, when some of the hijackers used driver’s licenses as identification when they checked in for their flights.

Stewart A. Baker, an assistant secretary of homeland security, said opponents of the new law should remember this recent history.

“I understand there is a sense that states are being asked to do something and not being given the resources by the federal government,” Mr. Baker said. “But people are forgetting that this was a 9/11 commission recommendation and a recommendation for a very good reason.”

But Barry Steinhardt of the American Civil Liberties Union said the states were raising legitimate issues. The law sets a national standard for machine-readability, most likely using bar-code-like strips where information about the owner can be scanned. This may tempt merchants to collect the data and use it for marketing purposes, Mr. Steinhardt said. The linked national database of all licensing information will also be a target for identity theft, he said.

“Real ID is a real nightmare on a number of fronts,” Mr. Steinhardt said.

Lawrence Halloran, deputy minority staff director at the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said the growing protests were a way for states to try to force more federal aid for the cost of issuing the new licenses.

“They are saying, ‘Pay me,’ ” he said.

Senators Daniel K. Akaka, Democrat of Hawaii, and John E. Sununu, Republican of New Hampshire, introduced a bill in December calling for the repeal of the Real ID Act.

The bill has yet to be reintroduced in the new session, with a spokesman for Mr. Akaka saying last week that he was likely to wait to see the draft rules that the Homeland Security Department publishes for public comment before deciding whether to push the cause.
 
/ Law Enforcement
  • Thread Starter
#88  
They didn't fight the safeguards against fraud, they fought the feds having free, suspicionless access to it, which was buried in the same legislation. Two different animals.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using TractorByNet

Really I didn't see that. I don't think the Law Enforcement Agencies of the Federal Government having access would be an invasion of anyone privacy. The only way to prevent crime is tro share information and strip away that cloak of invisibilty that the criminal element hides behind while hollering invasion of privacy. Here is the complete article:

WASHINGTON, Feb. 4 Opposition among state officials is turning into an open revolt against a federal law calling for the creation of standardized driverç—´ licenses nationwide that are meant to be less vulnerable to fraud.

Maine legislators started off the rebellion late last month by passing a nonbinding resolution that rejected the law, called the Real ID Act, which Congress passed in 2005. They said that it would cost the state $185 million to put into place and that instead of making Maineç—´ residents more secure, it would leave them more vulnerable to identity theft.

Since then, legislatures in five states Georgia, Montana, New Mexico, Washington and Wyoming have voted in committee or on the floor of one chamber to move similar legislation ahead. The bill adopted in a 99-to-1 vote by the Montana House of Representatives would go furthest, ordering state officials there to ignore the federal law.

Unless the federal law is revised, any state that defies it will risk causing major inconvenience for its residents, as noncompliant licenses will not be accepted as a proof of identification at airports, federal buildings or when applying for federal benefits.

What state officials are hoping is that Congress will repeal or modify the law, or at least provide some of the billions of dollars the states claim it will cost to establish the new licensing system nationwide.

The campaign features an odd mix of liberal Democrats, offended by a measure in the law that would effectively block illegal immigrants from getting federally compliant driverç—´ licenses, and conservative Republicans, who see the law as an affront to civil liberties and to states rights.

å…¸his is a frontal assault on our freedoms, said State Representative Jim Guest of Missouri, a Republican who said he was working with more than two dozen states to pass laws opposing the federal statute. å¾¹ne state standing alone is not enough. But we are already gaining strong momentum here.

Some states are not going as far as others. Vermont passed a law that would not defy the federal statute but called for more federal financial assistance in carrying it out.

Representative F. James Sensenbrenner Jr., Republican of Wisconsin, who led the effort in Congress to pass the 2005 law, as well as top officials at the Department of Homeland Security in Washington, said they were disturbed by the growing signs of a revolt.

鼎ertainly, it is a threat, Mr. Sensenbrenner said Saturday in an interview.

Representative Thomas M. Davis III, Republican of Virginia, wrote a letter last week to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff asking him what would happen to the federal program if individual states opted out.

Mr. Sensenbrenner attributed the growing resistance to the departmentç—´ tardiness in publishing rules telling the states what they must do under the law, which calls for new licenses to be issued starting in May 2008. He said that had led to misconceptions about the programç—´ costs and vulnerabilities. Mr. Sensenbrenner estimated that the real costs for states nationwide would not exceed about $100 million.

Federal officials acknowledge that with the final regulations not coming out until this summer, it is likely that some states will not be ready to begin issuing licenses on schedule.

The Real ID Act requires states to confirm that documents submitted to get driverç—´ licenses like a birth certificate or a passport are legitimate and that the applicants are in the United States legally. States will also have to check a linked database of state licensing data to make sure that applicants do not already have a license in another state and that they have not been banned from driving elsewhere.

The law effectively requires that all existing licenses be replaced by 2013.

The push to pass the law grew out of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, when some of the hijackers used driverç—´ licenses as identification when they checked in for their flights.

Stewart A. Baker, an assistant secretary of homeland security, said opponents of the new law should remember this recent history.

的 understand there is a sense that states are being asked to do something and not being given the resources by the federal government, Mr. Baker said. 釘ut people are forgetting that this was a 9/11 commission recommendation and a recommendation for a very good reason.

But Barry Steinhardt of the American Civil Liberties Union said the states were raising legitimate issues. The law sets a national standard for machine-readability, most likely using bar-code-like strips where information about the owner can be scanned. This may tempt merchants to collect the data and use it for marketing purposes, Mr. Steinhardt said. The linked national database of all licensing information will also be a target for identity theft, he said.

è¿*eal ID is a real nightmare on a number of fronts, Mr. Steinhardt said.

Lawrence Halloran, deputy minority staff director at the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said the growing protests were a way for states to try to force more federal aid for the cost of issuing the new licenses.

å…¸hey are saying, å–„ay me, he said.

Senators Daniel K. Akaka, Democrat of Hawaii, and John E. Sununu, Republican of New Hampshire, introduced a bill in December calling for the repeal of the Real ID Act.

The bill has yet to be reintroduced in the new session, with a spokesman for Mr. Akaka saying last week that he was likely to wait to see the draft rules that the Homeland Security Department publishes for public comment before deciding whether to push the cause.
 
/ Law Enforcement #89  
RE# Gator6x4 Did you realize that your posts are being duplicated? They are being "double posted". BTW, your posts are quite informative.
 
/ Law Enforcement #90  
RE# Gator6x4 Did you realize that your posts are being duplicated? They are being "double posted". BTW, your posts are quite informative.
Its a known issue with using quick reply button. Muhammad is working with the developers to get it fixed.

Aaron Z
 
/ Law Enforcement #91  
Its a known issue with using quick reply button. Muhammad is working with the developers to get it fixed.

Aaron Z
Thanks for the "Heads UP". I thought that issue had been solved shortly after the Forum Update. Apparently not. Thanks again.
 
/ Law Enforcement #92  
Let me give you a short course on how to break law. Steal someone of the same sexs personal identification. Memorize the drivers license number, date of birth and SS# if different than number on the drivers license. Now go to the DMV in your state and ask for a duplicate license, tell them you lost yours. Walk out the door with a new license bearing your face. Now you have a photo ID. Years ago some over the road truck drivers had three or four sets of drivers license.

That won't work any more. Facial recognition will detect different images and an investigation will be done.
 
/ Law Enforcement
  • Thread Starter
#93  
That won't work any more. Facial recognition will detect different images and an investigation will be done.

Only NCIS, CSI and other TV fantasy programs have such sophisticated detection devices. I do not personally know of a state driver’s license issuing location that has such equipment.

Some States will still send driver’s license to a Post Office Box and use that as an address on the driver’s license.
 
/ Law Enforcement #94  
Only NCIS, CSI and other TV fantasy programs have such sophisticated detection devices. I do not personally know of a state driver’s license issuing location that has such equipment.

Some States will still send driver’s license to a Post Office Box and use that as an address on the driver’s license.

I can tell you in my jurisdiction the BMV will conduct an investigation when facial recognition software shows that someone purchased a license and a different image is now associated with that name. They then forward their investigation to Law Enforcement(me). Since this new system was put into effect id's purchased using fraudulent identifying information has been reduced to a great extent in my state. It is not a fantasy. Welcome to the new world.
 
/ Law Enforcement #95  
I can tell you in my jurisdiction the BMV will conduct an investigation when facial recognition software shows that someone purchased a license and a different image is now associated with that name. They then forward their investigation to Law Enforcement(me). Since this new system was put into effect id's purchased using fraudulent identifying information has been reduced to a great extent in my state. It is not a fantasy. Welcome to the new world.

It may not be a fantasy where you live and work, but it is here; don't know how widespread its use is, but I know of no agencies in my area using it yet.
 
/ Law Enforcement #96  
State police investigator probing brutality at Indian nation says he was muzzled
Published: Sunday, August 05, 2012, 6:15 AM Updated: Sunday, August 05, 2012, 6:28 AM
By John O'Brien, The Post-Standard
Stephen D. Cannerelli / The Post-StandardSalvatore Valvo, then an internal affairs inspector for the state police, found what he considered troubling information about the department's handling of a protest at the Onondaga Nation in 1997.
When the state police were accused of roughing up Native Americans during a protest south of Syracuse in 1997, the department began an internal investigation.

Salvatore Valvo, then the agency痴 most senior internal affairs inspector, saw things he didn稚 like.

Just one example!

How could some of the 24 arrested protesters be charged with trespassing when they were on their own land? Why did the troopers remove their name tags from their uniforms, in violation of state police policy, before marching into the protesters?

Did the troopers use excessive force on protesters who weren稚 fighting them? Why weren稚 the protesters given an order to disperse before troopers moved in?

But Valvo never finished as the head of the investigation.

His bosses called him in the middle of his interview with the commander of the state police痴 Troop D, who had headed the protest operation. The top state police internal affairs officer said he壇 received complaints from the officers being interviewed that Valvo was being too harsh.

Deputy Superintendent James Fitzgerald, the head of internal affairs, told Valvo to temporarily halt the two-day-old investigation to allow for a cooling-off period, according to Fitzgeraldç—´ deposition.

Valvo was allowed to stay on as an inspector, but another officer was immediately promoted and put in charge. That officer told Valvo he wanted the team to 都lant this investigation, Valvo said.

Valvo protested, but it went nowhere.

Now, 15 years later, a lawyer for many of the Indians says Valvo痴 revelations helped convince the state to offer a $3 million settlement of the protesters lawsuit against the state. The settlement won稚 be final until all 98 of the plaintiffs sign it.

The Indians accused troopers of using excessive force and of overstepping their bounds by breaking up a peaceful protest on sovereign Onondaga Nation territory next to Interstate 81. The Indians claim of a state police cover-up is based largely on information from Valvo, said Terrance Hoffmann, one of the lawyers bringing the lawsuit.

Valvo has never before told his full story on what happened that day in May 1997 and in the aftermath: The officers in charge of the operation had seen firsthand how violent the Indian protests could become, because they壇 witnessed a dozen troopers being assaulted in protests in Western New York a few weeks earlier.

Retaliation seems to be the only explanation for why the officers would violate state police policy, make illegal arrests, use excessive force and å…Žndanger the lives of the protesters and the troopers, Valvo said.


View full sizeStephen D. Cannerelli / The Post-StandardState Police, in riot gear, arrest protesters at the Onondaga Indian Reservation in 1997.
Under the proposed settlement of the lawsuit, the state would admit no wrongdoing. Lawyers for the state police declined to comment.

But Valvo said the settlement amount confirms his allegations of misconduct and cover-up.

的f these guys did nothing wrong, why do we the taxpayers have to give the Indians $3 million? he asked.

禅ough questions

The commander of the operation at the time, then-Maj. James Parmley, recently declined to talk specifically about Valvoç—´ accusations. Parmley was the commander Valvo was interviewing when the call came from headquarters to back off.

å¾¹bviously, I disagree with what he said, said Parmley, who is retired. æ»´eç—´ not really a credible person for you to be interviewing.

In a deposition, Parmley said he thought Valvoç—´ é›»emeanor was less than professional during the interview that lasted more than three hours.

Parmleyç—´ second-in-command at the time, Capt. George Beach, could not be reached for comment. Fitzgerald did not return phone messages.

In affidavits and depositions, state police commanders don稚 dispute Valvo痴 claim that he was ordered to back off because he was too aggressive in his interviews. Fitzgerald said in an affidavit that the troopers union had complained that Valvo and another inspector browbeat Parmley and Beach. The union threatened to have lawyers attend the interviews, Fitzgerald said.

Fitzgerald had heard from his officers that Valvo was being ç”°ondescending and arrogant and creating a hostile environment, Fitzgerald said in an affidavit.

Fitzgerald was a deputy superintendent who headed internal affairs. He had two assistant deputy superintendents under him and seven inspectors who covered the whole state.

Valvo was one of the inspectors. By 1997, he had worked internal affairs for five years. A couple of years earlier, he was one of the inspectors selected to investigate what may be the agencyç—´ biggest scandal the evidence-tampering case in the Southern Tier that ended with six troopers being charged with planting evidence.

Valvo said he壇 never before been stopped in the middle of an investigation and was never told he was too harsh.

The inspector working with him that day, Joseph Loszynski, also said recently that the administrators interruption of the interviews was unheard of. The commanders should致e expected tough questions, said Loszynski, who went on to head the state police internal affairs division.

å…¸here was no browbeating, but there were tough questions being asked, Loszynski said recently. 溺ajor Parmley was a little upset with the line of questioning and the tenor of the interviews, but my response to that is, å¡‘ouæ±*e a troop commander. If youæ±*e asked tough questions, we expect an appropriate and honest response.樗

Wayne Bennett, the first deputy superintendent at the time, said heç—´ never heard of another time that the chief inspector halted an internal affairs interview.

å…¸he job of the staff inspector and anybody in internal affairs is to get to the truth, said Bennett, who later became state police superintendent. æ·»ou have to ask the appropriate questions. You have to be very specific about what youæ±*e asking because youæ±*e not going to be able to make an intelligent conclusion unless you have the answers to the difficult questions.

Both Loszynski and Bennett vouched for Valvoç—´ credibility.

禅hey were brutalized

To this day, Valvo is bitter over how his bosses responded to his inquiry in the days following the arrests. He calls it a whitewash by the agency he壇 worked for over 27 years.

的 was getting dynamite stuff in my interviews, Valvo said. 滴eads should致e rolled.

No one was disciplined over the arrests, according to him and other state police officials. Parmley lost two vacation days and received a letter of censure over the arrest of a television news cameraman at the scene, he said in a deposition.

Valvo retired that year, after he sued the state police and his bosses transferred him to an office job administering records. The lawsuit claimed state police administrators violated his freedom of speech by restricting his investigations. A judge threw it out on the grounds that Valvoç—´ bosses were immune from claims over a decision about one of their employees.

Valvo, 65, who lives in a suburb of Buffalo, maintains that the state police mistreated the Indians that day.

å…¸hey were brutalized, he said. å…¸heir rights were violated. Falsely arrested. What were these guys thinking?

Of the 24 protesters arrested, 23 had the charges dismissed. One took his case to trial and was acquitted.

A state police report at the time, produced by officers working for Valvo痴 replacement, casts the troopers conduct in a different light. The report, revealed in the Indians civil rights lawsuit, called the state police痴 actions 渡ecessary and appropriate to reopen I-81 after the protesters had gone onto the highway and slowed traffic.

Another protest in mind

The protest was initially over the leadership of the Onondagas but ended up including a demonstration against a deal with the state to require sales taxes on cigarettes sold to non-Indians at smokeshops on Indian land.

In the weeks leading up to the Onondaga protest, Indian protesters in Western New York had confronted troopers with violence and blocked highways, the state police report said. Twelve troopers were injured in those clashes, including two seriously, the report said.

Two-thirds of the protesters arrested in the Onondaga protest were from other tribes, state police said. The Onondaga chiefs had told state police they wanted protesters arrested for trespassing, the report said.

å…¸he chiefs made it clear they did not support the actions of the protesters and would sign trespass complaints against any individuals who interfered with traffic or otherwise acted unlawfully, the report said.

The report did fault state police for having no plan about what to do if the protesters left the highway and returned to the Onondagas property, which is what they ended up doing.

展hile the troopers understood what they were to do if the protesters were on the road and refused to leave it, they did not have specific instructions for other contingencies that might have developed, the report said.

The protesters did leave the highway when they were told, said Hoffmann, one of the protesters lawyer.

In a memo Beach wrote afterward, he said the plan was to arrest anyone who did not get out of the road.

Valvo claims the state police cover-up began even before he started his interviews. A high-ranking internal affairs office met with one of the targets the day before and gave him pointers on what to say, Valvo said.

å…¸hatç—´ not how itç—´ supposed to work, Valvo said.

In a deposition for his lawsuit, he contended there was �isconduct on the part of members that I was not allowed to pursue.

He recalled something he told Fitzgerald a few days after being removed as head of the internal affairs investigation.

æ·»ou embarrassed me in front of all my colleagues, Valvo said in the deposition. æ·»ou have conveyed to people like Parmley that he, who is the target of an investigation, can turn that around and focus the attention back on those who investigate misconduct.
 
/ Law Enforcement
  • Thread Starter
#97  
State police investigator probing brutality at Indian nation says he was muzzled
Published: Sunday, August 05, 2012, 6:15 AM Updated: Sunday, August 05, 2012, 6:28 AM
By John O'Brien, The Post-Standard
Stephen D. Cannerelli / The Post-StandardSalvatore Valvo, then an internal affairs inspector for the state police, found what he considered troubling information about the department's handling of a protest at the Onondaga Nation in 1997.
When the state police were accused of roughing up Native Americans during a protest south of Syracuse in 1997, the department began an internal investigation.

Salvatore Valvo, then the agency痴 most senior internal affairs inspector, saw things he didn稚 like.

Just one example!

How could some of the 24 arrested protesters be charged with trespassing when they were on their own land? Why did the troopers remove their name tags from their uniforms, in violation of state police policy, before marching into the protesters?

Did the troopers use excessive force on protesters who weren稚 fighting them? Why weren稚 the protesters given an order to disperse before troopers moved in?

But Valvo never finished as the head of the investigation.

His bosses called him in the middle of his interview with the commander of the state police痴 Troop D, who had headed the protest operation. The top state police internal affairs officer said he壇 received complaints from the officers being interviewed that Valvo was being too harsh.

Deputy Superintendent James Fitzgerald, the head of internal affairs, told Valvo to temporarily halt the two-day-old investigation to allow for a cooling-off period, according to Fitzgeraldç—´ deposition.

Valvo was allowed to stay on as an inspector, but another officer was immediately promoted and put in charge. That officer told Valvo he wanted the team to 都lant this investigation, Valvo said.

Valvo protested, but it went nowhere.

Now, 15 years later, a lawyer for many of the Indians says Valvo痴 revelations helped convince the state to offer a $3 million settlement of the protesters lawsuit against the state. The settlement won稚 be final until all 98 of the plaintiffs sign it.

The Indians accused troopers of using excessive force and of overstepping their bounds by breaking up a peaceful protest on sovereign Onondaga Nation territory next to Interstate 81. The Indians claim of a state police cover-up is based largely on information from Valvo, said Terrance Hoffmann, one of the lawyers bringing the lawsuit.

Valvo has never before told his full story on what happened that day in May 1997 and in the aftermath: The officers in charge of the operation had seen firsthand how violent the Indian protests could become, because they壇 witnessed a dozen troopers being assaulted in protests in Western New York a few weeks earlier.

Retaliation seems to be the only explanation for why the officers would violate state police policy, make illegal arrests, use excessive force and å…Žndanger the lives of the protesters and the troopers, Valvo said.


View full sizeStephen D. Cannerelli / The Post-StandardState Police, in riot gear, arrest protesters at the Onondaga Indian Reservation in 1997.
Under the proposed settlement of the lawsuit, the state would admit no wrongdoing. Lawyers for the state police declined to comment.

But Valvo said the settlement amount confirms his allegations of misconduct and cover-up.

的f these guys did nothing wrong, why do we the taxpayers have to give the Indians $3 million? he asked.

禅ough questions

The commander of the operation at the time, then-Maj. James Parmley, recently declined to talk specifically about Valvoç—´ accusations. Parmley was the commander Valvo was interviewing when the call came from headquarters to back off.

å¾¹bviously, I disagree with what he said, said Parmley, who is retired. æ»´eç—´ not really a credible person for you to be interviewing.

In a deposition, Parmley said he thought Valvoç—´ é›»emeanor was less than professional during the interview that lasted more than three hours.

Parmleyç—´ second-in-command at the time, Capt. George Beach, could not be reached for comment. Fitzgerald did not return phone messages.

In affidavits and depositions, state police commanders don稚 dispute Valvo痴 claim that he was ordered to back off because he was too aggressive in his interviews. Fitzgerald said in an affidavit that the troopers union had complained that Valvo and another inspector browbeat Parmley and Beach. The union threatened to have lawyers attend the interviews, Fitzgerald said.

Fitzgerald had heard from his officers that Valvo was being ç”°ondescending and arrogant and creating a hostile environment, Fitzgerald said in an affidavit.

Fitzgerald was a deputy superintendent who headed internal affairs. He had two assistant deputy superintendents under him and seven inspectors who covered the whole state.

Valvo was one of the inspectors. By 1997, he had worked internal affairs for five years. A couple of years earlier, he was one of the inspectors selected to investigate what may be the agencyç—´ biggest scandal the evidence-tampering case in the Southern Tier that ended with six troopers being charged with planting evidence.

Valvo said he壇 never before been stopped in the middle of an investigation and was never told he was too harsh.

The inspector working with him that day, Joseph Loszynski, also said recently that the administrators interruption of the interviews was unheard of. The commanders should致e expected tough questions, said Loszynski, who went on to head the state police internal affairs division.

å…¸here was no browbeating, but there were tough questions being asked, Loszynski said recently. 溺ajor Parmley was a little upset with the line of questioning and the tenor of the interviews, but my response to that is, å¡‘ouæ±*e a troop commander. If youæ±*e asked tough questions, we expect an appropriate and honest response.樗

Wayne Bennett, the first deputy superintendent at the time, said heç—´ never heard of another time that the chief inspector halted an internal affairs interview.

å…¸he job of the staff inspector and anybody in internal affairs is to get to the truth, said Bennett, who later became state police superintendent. æ·»ou have to ask the appropriate questions. You have to be very specific about what youæ±*e asking because youæ±*e not going to be able to make an intelligent conclusion unless you have the answers to the difficult questions.

Both Loszynski and Bennett vouched for Valvoç—´ credibility.

禅hey were brutalized

To this day, Valvo is bitter over how his bosses responded to his inquiry in the days following the arrests. He calls it a whitewash by the agency he壇 worked for over 27 years.

的 was getting dynamite stuff in my interviews, Valvo said. 滴eads should致e rolled.

No one was disciplined over the arrests, according to him and other state police officials. Parmley lost two vacation days and received a letter of censure over the arrest of a television news cameraman at the scene, he said in a deposition.

Valvo retired that year, after he sued the state police and his bosses transferred him to an office job administering records. The lawsuit claimed state police administrators violated his freedom of speech by restricting his investigations. A judge threw it out on the grounds that Valvoç—´ bosses were immune from claims over a decision about one of their employees.

Valvo, 65, who lives in a suburb of Buffalo, maintains that the state police mistreated the Indians that day.

å…¸hey were brutalized, he said. å…¸heir rights were violated. Falsely arrested. What were these guys thinking?

Of the 24 protesters arrested, 23 had the charges dismissed. One took his case to trial and was acquitted.

A state police report at the time, produced by officers working for Valvo痴 replacement, casts the troopers conduct in a different light. The report, revealed in the Indians civil rights lawsuit, called the state police痴 actions 渡ecessary and appropriate to reopen I-81 after the protesters had gone onto the highway and slowed traffic.

Another protest in mind

The protest was initially over the leadership of the Onondagas but ended up including a demonstration against a deal with the state to require sales taxes on cigarettes sold to non-Indians at smokeshops on Indian land.

In the weeks leading up to the Onondaga protest, Indian protesters in Western New York had confronted troopers with violence and blocked highways, the state police report said. Twelve troopers were injured in those clashes, including two seriously, the report said.

Two-thirds of the protesters arrested in the Onondaga protest were from other tribes, state police said. The Onondaga chiefs had told state police they wanted protesters arrested for trespassing, the report said.

å…¸he chiefs made it clear they did not support the actions of the protesters and would sign trespass complaints against any individuals who interfered with traffic or otherwise acted unlawfully, the report said.

The report did fault state police for having no plan about what to do if the protesters left the highway and returned to the Onondagas property, which is what they ended up doing.

展hile the troopers understood what they were to do if the protesters were on the road and refused to leave it, they did not have specific instructions for other contingencies that might have developed, the report said.

The protesters did leave the highway when they were told, said Hoffmann, one of the protesters lawyer.

In a memo Beach wrote afterward, he said the plan was to arrest anyone who did not get out of the road.

Valvo claims the state police cover-up began even before he started his interviews. A high-ranking internal affairs office met with one of the targets the day before and gave him pointers on what to say, Valvo said.

å…¸hatç—´ not how itç—´ supposed to work, Valvo said.

In a deposition for his lawsuit, he contended there was �isconduct on the part of members that I was not allowed to pursue.

He recalled something he told Fitzgerald a few days after being removed as head of the internal affairs investigation.

æ·»ou embarrassed me in front of all my colleagues, Valvo said in the deposition. æ·»ou have conveyed to people like Parmley that he, who is the target of an investigation, can turn that around and focus the attention back on those who investigate misconduct.
_____________________________________________________________________
If my memory serves the protest was over taxes. The state of NY wanted taxes on the millions of cartoons of cigarettes being sold on Indian Reservations. The Indians did not want to pay or collect taxes. They blocked a Federal funded highway, Interstate 81 that runs through the reservation.


23 Indians Arrested In Protest Over Taxes

Published: May 19, 1997


New York State Police troopers in riot gear arrested 23 members of the Onondaga Nation after the Indians blocked the northbound lanes of Interstate 81, which runs through the reservation.

Those arrested were protesting the taxes that some State Government officials want to impose on the cigarettes and gasoline that Indians can now sell tax-free on their land, said Robert Heath, a spokesman at the North Syracuse Barracks.

The Indians were charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct, unlawful assembly, resisting arrest and second-degree assault, Mr. Heath said. The officers donned helmets and carried large batons to break up the protest, which closed a small stretch of the highway for 90 minutes, Mr. Heath said. Two troopers suffered minor injuries.

Several investigations, Federal, State and Local were conducted over the conduct of the Police. To my knowledge only the State Police investigation resulted in controversy.

Several investigation have also been conducted over cigarette sales avoiding state taxes in the state of NY. These investigations disclosed millions of cartoons of cigarettes are being sold annually without taxes being collected.
http://www.tax.ny.gov/enforcement/criminal_enforcement/senate_testimony_appendix_a_102609.pdf

In may of 2011 I think it was a Federal Court ruled against the Indians on cigarette sales, stating taxes must be collected. RJR (Reynolds Tobacco) was also caught in the cigarette investigations and paid a fine of 15 million in 1998. RJR Nabisco. Northern Brands agreed to pay $15 million in fines and forfeitures for failing to pay U.S. excise taxes on 26 truckloads of cigarettes in 1994 and 1995. Federal prosecutors said that more than $2.5 million in excise taxes were evaded as a result of the scheme. It is part of an ongoing investigation into the smuggling of tobacco and liquor products from the United States into Canada through the St. Regis Mohawk Indian Reservation in Northern New York. There already have been 20 felony convictions of individuals involved in the smuggling.

I think the Indian Nations have now moved cigarette manufacturing facilities onto the reservations. I look for the battles and protests to continue.

Canada must have some reserved feeling about the US being a good neighbor.
 
/ Law Enforcement #98  
My objective in posting the article was to illustrate the effectiveness of the Thin Blue LIne and the corruption that it fosters. Did you read the paragraph about the troopers that fabricated the evidence in the other case? Was a robbery,arson, and quadruple murder of a family. The murderer was shot and killed by the police during his capture. The creeps mother had used the families credit card after the murder. The troopers apparently thought they did not have the evidence,so they fabricated some and got caught.
The woman is now living high on the hog someplace,I think in SC, after winning 3 million in either a law suit or settlement from the state.
The arrogance of these so called protecters also caused 20 to 30 felony sentences to be vacated,and the crimnals retried,at my expense.
Thing is,is that feelings on this case were running high and this woman more than likely would have been convicted as an accessary.
Would she have walked, maybe,our system is not perfect,but when the sheepdog is as bloodthirsty as the wolf,something is wrong.
I am real happy for all you folks who have law enforcement that is honest and upright,but somehow I think it is because you don't want to see the system within the ranks for what it is.
 
/ Law Enforcement
  • Thread Starter
#99  
My objective in posting the article was to illustrate the effectiveness of the Thin Blue LIne and the corruption that it fosters. Did you read the paragraph about the troopers that fabricated the evidence in the other case? Was a robbery,arson, and quadruple murder of a family. The murderer was shot and killed by the police during his capture. The creeps mother had used the families credit card after the murder. The troopers apparently thought they did not have the evidence,so they fabricated some and got caught.
The woman is now living high on the hog someplace,I think in SC, after winning 3 million in either a law suit or settlement from the state.
The arrogance of these so called protecters also caused 20 to 30 felony sentences to be vacated,and the crimnals retried,at my expense.
Thing is,is that feelings on this case were running high and this woman more than likely would have been convicted as an accessary.
Would she have walked, maybe,our system is not perfect,but when the sheepdog is as bloodthirsty as the wolf,something is wrong.
I am real happy for all you folks who have law enforcement that is honest and upright,but somehow I think it is because you don't want to see the system within the ranks for what it is.

All professions have bad apples. Look at the scandals rocking the religious community. Does that mean because a couple of the apples spoiled we categorize all apples as bad.

Police Officers are, "From the People and For the People". You are not going to take an individual who has misguided loyalties, values and a preconceived notion of what is right and what is wrong, put a police uniform on him/her and instantly have an individual interested in the pursuit of justice.

Overall I think law enforcement does and has done a fairly good job on weeding out and bring those guilty of misconduct before the courts to answer for their crimes.

The bottom line is, any time you hear or read about misconduct or the trial of someone who was in law enforcement, a law enforcement officer conducted the investigation and charged the individual. The same cannot be said of other professions. Other professions let them resign, or transfer them somewhere else so they can continue on their merry way.

Law Enforcement Officers I know take their oath of office and public trust responsibilities very serious. They have very little tolerance for someone involved or engaged in illegal activities.
 
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