Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[DirtHauler]

View attachment 332386View attachment 332388I could use a bit of advice from you Caroni owners out there. Took delivery of my TM1900 last week...have mowed about 12 hours with it (just grass, hay field regrowth, no brush) and find that the roller is not always turning due to scrapper bar. In fact, there is one strip about 5/8" wide, running the full length of the roller that looks like chrome from dragging so much.

Anyone else run into this problem?

Have you Caroni owners modified your scrapper bar so it doesn't ride directly on the roller? If so, what did you do.

Oh, before someone asks, I greased bearings before use, and again after 5 hours. If scrapper is lifted up, roller spins like a top.

I just removed my scraper bar because my roller gets pretty beat up banging over rocks etc. and the mower works fine without it! But keep it on if you're mowing wet grass. The other thing about the scraper bar is if you look at each end you'll notice it rides on the end cap weld seams, you can wait till it wears in or, like I did, notch the bar ends to clear the welds and it will ride flat on the roller.

 

[Hill Billy Bob]

Dirthauler,
Since my original post, I've secured the scraper bar in a full raised position with two tie down straps. Have mowed an additional 30 hours in this manner with great results. Don't get those occasional clumps of grass that build up, on and around the scraper, then fall off...much cleaner looking job when finished. When this season is over, like you, I will be removing it completely...Bob

 

[esbwn]

Hello Flail Nation. Im trying to join your ranks. Ive found a ford flail that i can afford but cant find much info on it. Anyone know where i should look? Also, what should i check for when i inspect it? The owner says he replace the belt and its a 5' mower. Thanks all!

 

[JustBob]

Does anyone know how to tell which bearings I have on the cutter shaft without taking the bearings out? Due to a back injury Saturday is the only day I will have help to take it apart and put it back together again. I was told by FlailMaster to take the bearings out before I ordered replacements, to see if I had the old style or the new style bearings.


Here are a few pics if it helps, I do have the old style gearbox...









The bearing plate is the same for both sides...

 

[Reg]

Does anyone know how to tell which bearings I have on the cutter shaft without taking the bearings out? Due to a back injury Saturday is the only day I will have help to take it apart and put it back together again. I was told by FlailMaster to take the bearings out before I ordered replacements, to see if I had the old style or the new style bearings.

As a sweeping generalization...
Where it matters manufacturers often change things like this with a step in serial (or model) numbers, or at least record the number above which the new part was used.
I would get back to them with the question; "Can you tell by serial number being above/below a particular number ?" and quote them my serial & model numbers.

Where it doesn't matter, e.g. just a product improvement or cost reduction, might as well use the newer part anyway.

BTW, have they told you that new part won't fit or won't work in place of old part ?

 

[IslandTractor]

How about ordering both old and new replacement bearings and just return the ones you don't need?

 

[JustBob]

As a sweeping generalization...
Where it matters manufacturers often change things like this with a step in serial (or model) numbers, or at least record the number above which the new part was used.
I would get back to them with the question; "Can you tell by serial number being above/below a particular number ?" and quote them my serial & model numbers.

Where it doesn't matter, e.g. just a product improvement or cost reduction, might as well use the newer part anyway.

BTW, have they told you that new part won't fit or won't work in place of old part ?

How about ordering both old and new replacement bearings and just return the ones you don't need?

Problem resolved itself, found a crack in the outside flange so I ordered new flanges with the bearings. Wish I had seen that earlier...

 

[Thomabear]

Well I just spent 2 days off and on reading this very informative thread and enjoyed every minute of it. Thanks to everyone who contributed. :thumbsup:

Just to shift gears a little I would like some opinions on an idea I've been pondering for some time. What I would like to experiment with is installing a "quick change" flail blade system on a Caroni TM1600 with the F (finish) rotor. About once a season I'm in need of dethatching and over seeding pasture with annual rye. What I would like to do is remove all the flail hanger bolts and install a continuous rod through all station covering one complete row per rod. This will save the time of removing several nuts and bolts everytime I switch blades. I don't foresee a rotor balance issue due to rows having the same length rod at 12-3-6-9 o'clock and being installed nearly against the rotor. The four rods would be grade 8 installed via a small access hole drilled on the opposite side of the belt train and in alignment with the hangers. Once slid into place the rods would be pinned or fastened with a castle nut and cotter pin. Also of note, this is clean obstacle free pasture and the distances between flail stations are real close allowing excellent rod strength between the hanger stations. If this idea doesn't prove to be a beneficial option it's always easy to switch back. Any thoughts?

 

[GinNB]

I have no experience with the Caroni but have three Vrisimo flails that use a slide-out rod to hold on a row of hoops that their d-rings attach to. There is no problem with the rods working their way out sideways under use with no retention mechanism. I'm on my phone at the moment but I'm sure Google can bring up images of their cuttershaft system somehow.

 

[IslandTractor]

Well I just spent 2 days off and on reading this very informative thread and enjoyed every minute of it. Thanks to everyone who contributed. :thumbsup:

Just to shift gears a little I would like some opinions on an idea I've been pondering for some time. What I would like to experiment with is installing a "quick change" flail blade system on a Caroni TM1600 with the F (finish) rotor. About once a season I'm in need of dethatching and over seeding pasture with annual rye. What I would like to do is remove all the flail hanger bolts and install a continuous rod through all station covering one complete row per rod. This will save the time of removing several nuts and bolts everytime I switch blades. I don't foresee a rotor balance issue due to rows having the same length rod at 12-3-6-9 o'clock and being installed nearly against the rotor. The four rods would be grade 8 installed via a small access hole drilled on the opposite side of the belt train and in alignment with the hangers. Once slid into place the rods would be pinned or fastened with a castle nut and cotter pin. Also of note, this is clean obstacle free pasture and the distances between flail stations are real close allowing excellent rod strength between the hanger stations. If this idea doesn't prove to be a beneficial option it's always easy to switch back. Any thoughts?

Sounds like a reasonable idea. So long as the balance is OK, which it should be, and that the ends are appropriately secured (hard to imagine a castle nut on such a small rod) it should be fine. I am not sure it will save a lot of time compared to using a powered wrench to work the bolts on the original system but it might. Make sure you let us know how it goes.

 

[Thomabear]

Sounds like a reasonable idea. So long as the balance is OK, which it should be, and that the ends are appropriately secured (hard to imagine a castle nut on such a small rod) it should be fine. I am not sure it will save a lot of time compared to using a powered wrench to work the bolts on the original system but it might. Make sure you let us know how it goes.

My F rotor has 48 stations so even with the impact wrench then re-torqing I'm looking at much more time verses breaking 4 nuts, sliding the rods out and letting all the hardware fall to the ground. I'm looking at swapping knives once a year so that will be a good time to dress up the cutting edges. You are right concerning the castle nut. I'm now thinking it might be best to use a nylock grade 8 nut instead. It will receive just enough torque to snug things up pulling between the outboard tabs. If retention becomes a problem (which I think it shouldn't) I could always drill the shaft and install the cotter pin. I'll likely use red thread locker on the opposite end or just weld the nut in place. I've already sourced the 12MM (4140) rods and die at McMaster Carr. Right now I'm just collecting opinions before going forward and looking for some time to get er done. I will definitely let everyone know how it goes.:thumbsup:

 

[IslandTractor]

My F rotor has 48 stations so even with the impact wrench then re-torqing I'm looking at much more time verses breaking 4 nuts, sliding the rods out and letting all the hardware fall to the ground. I'm looking at swapping knives once a year so that will be a good time to dress up the cutting edges. You are right concerning the castle nut. I'm now thinking it might be best to use a nylock grade 8 nut instead. It will receive just enough torque to snug things up pulling between the outboard tabs. If retention becomes a problem (which I think it shouldn't) I could always drill the shaft and install the cotter pin. I'll likely use red thread locker on the opposite end or just weld the nut in place. I've already sourced the 12MM (4140) rods and die at McMaster Carr. Right now I'm just collecting opinions before going forward and looking for some time to get er done. I will definitely let everyone know how it goes.:thumbsup:

I don't think I'd worry if you have a nylock nut on one end, you could even double lock it. The other end could be welded for total security. But, I'd personally be happy with the nylock nuts. Not much other than random vibration to worry about.

 

[leonz]

The issue is more one of what are you going to do with the thatch?

If you can tolerate the thatch being left on the ground and overseeding
at a much heavier rate as the thatch will keep some of the seed
from geminating.

The thatching blade will have to be longer than the side slicers length
to slit the sod and dig out the thatch at least an inch deep.

 

[Thomabear]

Thanks for the replies. I think I was a little misleading when I said dethatch. Yes I will be lightly dethatching but not to the extent where I will wind up with a pile of chaff on the ground. For this operation the side cutters would be removed and replaced with only straight blades. The idea is to cut shallow slits into the ground about every 1-1/2" apart. It will be experimental but I'm thinking the chaff left on the ground should be minimal since the field isn't very thick. The roller would serve the tamping mechanism through the process. I'm thinking a little chaff will be good to cover the seeds to retain moisture. What do you guys think? Also, do you think it would be best to spread the seed before or after running the straight cutters? Before would allow the removed dirt to cover the seeds while after would provide slits for the seeds to fall in. Maybe 1/2 and 1/2 would be a good approach. I will likely add 50% extra seed to the requirement for the 1st year to see how it goes.

 

[leonz]

About your dethatching quest:

you will need a lawn sweeper or vacuum if you want to do this right.


WHEN you dethatch,

you are slitting the sod to break the thatch layer
which is at the surface of theground under the growing
grass.

Properly adjusted, the flail mowers rotor allows the thatching blades
do slit the ground one inch deep. I have the worn ones to prove it.


The issue with the Caroni is the smaller diameter rotor which WILL
require more energy to spin the THATCHING KNIVES in the sod
at the proper depth.



NOW you will have to be be in the lowest creeper gear to dethatch and reduce your
blade wear as the dethatching knives will simply bounce over the ground if you are
traveling at too fast a ground speed.

Be sure you have purchased hardened dethatching knives as well


In my case the larger diameter rotor using the three inch dethatching
blades allows me to operate at a slower RPM.

The Caroni will need four inch knives if I remember correctly to
operate properly and dethatch to the proper depth.

IF you have ever seen or used a dethatching rake you will see the high number of
blades on the rake and when you pull in the ground it creates ahuge amount of
resistance pulling up the thatch layer.

It is also recommended that the dethatching job done by dethatching the area at a right angle
to the originakl direction SO if you were dethatching in a north south direction you should also
dethatchat at an east west direction as well to open the sod to make a better seed bed for you
new grass seed.


I would rather see you use a high quality grass seed from TSC or another retailer rather than
rye grass as you wil be fighting a losong battle.

I only want to help you not hinder you.

 

[leonz]

I forgot to ask;

How far are you from Franklin, Belle Isle or Cote Blanche?

 

[Thomabear]

About your dethatching quest:

you will need a lawn sweeper or vacuum if you want to do this right.


WHEN you dethatch,

you are slitting the sod to break the thatch layer
which is at the surface of theground under the growing
grass.

Properly adjusted, the flail mowers rotor allows the thatching blades
do slit the ground one inch deep. I have the worn ones to prove it.


The issue with the Caroni is the smaller diameter rotor which WILL
require more energy to spin the THATCHING KNIVES in the sod
at the proper depth.



NOW you will have to be be in the lowest creeper gear to dethatch and reduce your
blade wear as the dethatching knives will simply bounce over the ground if you are
traveling at too fast a ground speed.

Be sure you have purchased hardened dethatching knives as well


In my case the larger diameter rotor using the three inch dethatching
blades allows me to operate at a slower RPM.

The Caroni will need four inch knives if I remember correctly to
operate properly and dethatch to the proper depth.

IF you have ever seen or used a dethatching rake you will see the high number of
blades on the rake and when you pull in the ground it creates ahuge amount of
resistance pulling up the thatch layer.

It is also recommended that the dethatching job done by dethatching the area at a right angle
to the originakl direction SO if you were dethatching in a north south direction you should also
dethatchat at an east west direction as well to open the sod to make a better seed bed for you
new grass seed.


I would rather see you use a high quality grass seed from TSC or another retailer rather than
rye grass as you wil be fighting a losong battle.

I only want to help you not hinder you.

Good information Leonz, thanks!

Around 100 miles ESE of Franklin and Cote Blanche is where I hang my hat.

The property in question is located about 50 miles to the West of Brookhaven, MS.
Basically I'm using the annual rye as a winter over seeded crop as that's what was recommended for grazing, wildlife forage and erosion on slopes. So far it's been doing quite well and it's really cheap verses alternative winter crops. I appreciate the recommendation on the knives. Since reading your reply I have located some 4" dethatching knives that should fit the bill just right. They are .15 thick and 1.75 wide and heat treated. I think for the most part this project will be trial and error based on the ground hardness and rainfall. One added plus is that the ground is real workable. (Mostly loam for the first 3-4 inches deep and without rocks) Like I stated previously this will be an annual process so thatch should be very minimal once the ground is worked and over seeded a couple of times. If it becomes more of a project than anticipated for the 1st year I can always use the hay rake to wind row the excess and pile it up with the FEL to use as future fertilizer. I will only be planting about 5 acres this year but if this works out I will invest in a wider mower and plant a max of about 10 acres.

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[leonz]

Good information Leonz, thanks!

Around 100 miles ESE of Franklin and Cote Blanche is where I hang my hat.

The property in question is located about 50 miles to the West of Brookhaven, MS.
Basically I'm using the annual rye as a winter over seeded crop as that's what was recommended for grazing, wildlife forage and erosion on slopes. So far it's been doing quite well and it's really cheap verses alternative winter crops. I appreciate the recommendation on the knives. Since reading your reply I have located some 4" dethatching knives that should fit the bill just right. They are .15 thick and 1.75 wide and heat treated. I think for the most part this project will be trial and error based on the ground hardness and rainfall. One added plus is that the ground is real workable. (Mostly loam for the first 3-4 inches deep and without rocks) Like I stated previously this will be an annual process so thatch should be very minimal once the ground is worked and over seeded a couple of times. If it becomes more of a project than anticipated for the 1st year I can always use the hay rake to wind row the excess and pile it up with the FEL to use as future fertilizer. I will only be planting about 5 acres this year but if this works out I will invest in a wider mower and plant a max of about 10 acres.

Thanks for all the advice!

Hey Thomabear,

I have just returned from my snow blower retrieval mission
and I found your reply.

Do you work underground at Cote blanche Coastal Minerals? I have close friend
that retired from Goderich who was the mines mechanical engineer

IF you do I would like you to send me your e-mail via the PM box

 

[Thomabear]

Hey Thomabear,

I have just returned from my snow blower retrieval mission
and I found your reply.

Do you work underground at Cote blanche Coastal Minerals? I have close friend
that retired from Goderich who was the mines mechanical engineer

IF you do I would like you to send me your e-mail via the PM box

Actually I'm not familiar with Coastal Minerals. I've been in the petroleum industry for the last 32 years, but like your friend I'm hoping to retire soon.

 

[diggerd]

I'm in the market for a new flail mower. I'd like to get one wit an offset. Anyone have any experience with Maschio