Loading issues on Dump Trailer

   / Loading issues on Dump Trailer #81  
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
4
Location
North of Ferndale WA
Tractor
New Holland TC30
I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?
IMHO Your struggle with this is just you proving to yourself you don't have enough truck under that trailer. I have a 6X10 10k deckover on a F350 and I don't like anything past 4.5k lb in it. 3 tons is a lot of load for a car with a 4x8 shopping basket behind the seat! If you put load cells under every tire truck and trailer and load it with a coffee cup, planning where every pound is placed your still going to feel like jelly on the road with 7 to 8k in tow. That may be fine if the rig stays off the interstate at or under 30 mph but at 60 and a need for even mild corrective action, the trailer will be in control! Good luck stay safe and go get an old 1 ton. You will suddenly be very happy to feel the "forward bias" That the guy in the wheel loader knows you need!
 
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   / Loading issues on Dump Trailer #82  

billypumper

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
49
Location
Greendale, In.
Tractor
JD 2950, JD 1023e
I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?
The trailer is to big for the truck, should trade down to a 7k trailer then you can still haul almost 3 tons but the tongue weight would be around 700 and wouldn't have to worry about cheap paid operators who could care less how it's loaded.
 
   / Loading issues on Dump Trailer #83  

sandman2234

Super Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2005
Messages
5,316
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
Tractor
JD2555 and a few Allis Chalmers and now one Kubota
The way the trailer's geometry is setup, because the center of the bed is ahead of the center of the axles, you are guaranteed a front bias if you load the bed evenly. If they could do that everything would be fine. But when they load the bed with a front bias on top of the front bias of the trailer geometry, it's too much tongue weight.

To me this is simple, you can see that in the basic physics of the trailer layout and I could verify it with the scale data. This should not be complicated to understand.
I am pretty sure I understand how trailers are set up, most of the time, since I have been known to build or heavily modify them to suit my particulars.
My "ugly dump trailer" started life as a 45 foot triple axle gooseneck commercial boat hauler with a twisted neck. It is now a 20 foot flatbed with a 12.5' dump section using a scissor lift at the rear.
I built a 33' flatbed with a 10' dovetail to haul vans out of Ocala years ago. Last time I saw it, it was on it's 3rd truck, the 1st two at half a million miles each.
David from jax
 
   / Loading issues on Dump Trailer #84  

Bob Rooks

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
3,610
Location
47.6445° N, 122.6949° W (In Washington state)
Tractor
Dozer, Excavator, Skid steer, Dual Dozer, Hydraulic flail mower, Rotary trail cutter, DIY debris blower..
A half-ton pickup is barely more than a grocery-getter. Move on up to a serious truck or have your product delivered.

20160331_142240.jpg
 
   / Loading issues on Dump Trailer #85  

klink

Bronze Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
96
Location
Ohio
Tractor
Ford 660,JD 4110 Hydro - JD 670 gear - 48 Farmall Cub - 51 Farmall H - John Deere 50 - JD X540 JD X580 AC 917 WH 81 Cub Cadet 1541 & 70
I didn't read all the posts, but I will add a little info. I have been to a lot of quarries or bulk loading docks where they have rules that the driver must stay in the truck at all times. That may work for the big dump trucks with automated tarps and such. but I like to do a walk around making sure everything is ok and no stones or other debris is on the outside of the trailer. In short they don't want residential customers in their quarry. So as I got older, I just pay the delivery charges and save my rig for lesser duty fun jobs, such as hauling free horse manure for my large garden. I also haul my classic tractors legally. I try to haul a legal load all the times. I like sandman2234's quote ( A serious accident is one that money won't fix ) that quote is one I will remember.
Thank You Sandman2234
 
   / Loading issues on Dump Trailer #86  

nikerret

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
725
Location
Kansas
Tractor
Kubota BX25D-1
It’s not just local rules. Most quarries are under regulations overseen by the Mine Safety & Health Administration. Part of their regulations determine what is required to be out of a vehicle, in the areas where loading may occur. Hard hat, steel toed boots, and reflective vest are an industry-accepted minimum. Even then, there are only a few select times the driver is allowed out of the vehicle. Getting caught not following the rules can mean huge fines, for everyone, even site closure. Not to mention the physical safety aspect.

Here is just some of the regulations the MSHA enforces:


A little on the MSHA:

Every mine and quarry should have a sign indicating when you are required to stay in the vehicle (unless specifically directed to get out, under one of the few requirements). They will also have a dedicated tarp area that no overhead lifting is allowed by. It is usually between the scale house and the external entrance. When in doubt, look for the portable toilet. The portable toilet will be in an area that doesn’t require a hard hat, though, some companies may have internal policies to the contrary.
 
   / Loading issues on Dump Trailer #87  

sandman2234

Super Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2005
Messages
5,316
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
Tractor
JD2555 and a few Allis Chalmers and now one Kubota
I didn't read all the posts, but I will add a little info. I have been to a lot of quarries or bulk loading docks where they have rules that the driver must stay in the truck at all times. That may work for the big dump trucks with automated tarps and such. but I like to do a walk around making sure everything is ok and no stones or other debris is on the outside of the trailer. ( A serious accident is one that money won't fix ) that quote is one I will remember.
Thank You Sandman2234
Thanks! As far as the quote... I overheard the terminal manager of a trucking company say that when he came to the scene of a truck versus train accident. One of the VERY FEW of those types where nobody was killed, however the railroad employee jumped off the train, fell down and said he needed an ambulance. Turned out all of his "conditions" were pre-existing... he was on his 3rd strike with the r/r and will be terminated if he ever returns.


The other part, If the dump truck drivers got out of the truck a little more often, they wouldn't need to put "Keep back 200 feet, not responsible for broken windshields" signs on the back of their trucks. I was in the lane next to one when a stone bounced off the back of the rear lip and cracked my windshield. I called the company and they said they weren't responsible for items coming up from the road. I told them I had video they might get to see in court if they refused to pay for it (as in I am heading for a windshield shop NOW). I also suggested they call the driver and have him brush off the rear lip, before they had to buy even more windshields. They paid for it, no questions asked, but did want me to send the video to them so they could bill the driver. Apparently a requirement for them to sweep off all loose rocks.
David from jax
 
   / Loading issues on Dump Trailer #88  

nikerret

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
725
Location
Kansas
Tractor
Kubota BX25D-1
Apparently a requirement for them to sweep off all loose rocks.

It‘s law under “load securement”. Thus the reason every quarry should (unless they are disregarding the regulations) have a dedicated “tarp” area. They can’t make you stay in your truck and make you responsible for loose rocks.
 
   / Loading issues on Dump Trailer #89  

hacksaw11111

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
4
Tractor
Deere 2520
I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?
Why don't you use the dump feature and shift the load back over the axles?
 
   / Loading issues on Dump Trailer #90  

nikerret

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
725
Location
Kansas
Tractor
Kubota BX25D-1
Just an example of one of the quarries I frequent. I can make a few others, if it’s useful or there’s interest. There are five I frequent, all set up differently, and a few more I don’t go to very often.

Forgot to label the entrance, it’s the driveway on the left.
6545BE94-FA10-485B-A073-99E79267006F.jpeg
 
 
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