I have acquired an older home made log splitter that has a 9 hp B&S engine, 6 inch cylinder (3.5 in ram) w/ about 16 inches travel, 4 gpm single stage pump, and single valve. It limits pressure at 800 psi according to the pressure guage and boggs the engine down at that point. My question is will a two stage 16 gpm pump fix the pressure limit problem, not counting cycle time improvements, or is there something else that is causing that? I do not see an adjustment on the control valve to raise the pressure. The valve is an Energy brand.
Log Splitter Pressure
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J_J
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It takes about 8 HP to pump 4 GPM, at 3000 psi. It would only take about 2 HP to pump 4 GPM at 800 psi. What we don't know here is the pressure limits on the pump. A relief valve could be relieving a lot of the pressure.
You must have put a gage on it to say that it had 800 psi.
Is the valve connected correctly. Maybe it is reversed.
This pump, a 16 GPM two stage only requires about an 8 HP engine.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-1390&catname=hydraulic
There was a member on here a while back talking about the Energy valves, and they were setting the relief valve above the normal setting to get the extra pressure to raise the splitting force.
You must have put a gage on it to say that it had 800 psi.
Is the valve connected correctly. Maybe it is reversed.
This pump, a 16 GPM two stage only requires about an 8 HP engine.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-1390&catname=hydraulic
There was a member on here a while back talking about the Energy valves, and they were setting the relief valve above the normal setting to get the extra pressure to raise the splitting force.
J_J
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I found the other post about Energy valves.
Old 03-04-2011, 05:14 PM #18 (permalink)
shansen
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Default Re: 3 1/2 in bore cylinder on wood splitter
Energy sells 2 valves to SPEECO and have for years. One has the internal system relief valve set at 3200 PSI and the other at 3400 PSI. SPEECO has been buying a knockoff of the valve from China for several years now. Energy valves have always had ENERGY cast in the valve body between the two cylinder work ports and stamped in the end of the spring cover. If the valve says anything else, including "SPEECO", it is the valve from China.
NOTE: You can not install a directional control valve downstream from the existing directional control valve in series. The additional valve must be upstream in series for a loglift. This is due to the internal pilot feature of the directional control valve running the splitting cylinder.
Hope this helps.
Steve Hansen
Applications Engineer
Energy Manufacturing Co., Inc.
(319)-465-3537 X-402
(319)-465-5279 FAX
shansen@energymfg.com
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:14 PM #18 (permalink)
shansen
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Default Re: 3 1/2 in bore cylinder on wood splitter
Energy sells 2 valves to SPEECO and have for years. One has the internal system relief valve set at 3200 PSI and the other at 3400 PSI. SPEECO has been buying a knockoff of the valve from China for several years now. Energy valves have always had ENERGY cast in the valve body between the two cylinder work ports and stamped in the end of the spring cover. If the valve says anything else, including "SPEECO", it is the valve from China.
NOTE: You can not install a directional control valve downstream from the existing directional control valve in series. The additional valve must be upstream in series for a loglift. This is due to the internal pilot feature of the directional control valve running the splitting cylinder.
Hope this helps.
Steve Hansen
Applications Engineer
Energy Manufacturing Co., Inc.
(319)-465-3537 X-402
(319)-465-5279 FAX
shansen@energymfg.com
shansen is offline Report Post Reply With Quote
Thank you for your help. The engine is a B&S Model 9 Serial 77804 Type 201023. I had a shop go through it because it was full of dirt dobbers and had been sitting for several years. They told me it was 9 hp. Anyway, it already had the guage and everything set up and together. It will extend and retract super slow and when it bottoms out the guage will hit 800 psi and then the engine boggs. It does the same splitting wood. Split anything until 800 psi is reached and then just stops. The engine does not bog until the 800 psi mark but the pressure will not go past that. Its like the limit of the valve, pump, or something it set there. The guage is a Vickers, 3000 psi, and attached on the pump side of the valve.
J_J
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Did you verify that the pump output was going to the valve IN port?
Is it also a log splitter valve, with auto kick back to neutral?
Is it also a log splitter valve, with auto kick back to neutral?
The hose from the pump is connected to the "in" port on the valve. The valve is spring loaded in both directions back to neutral. If I do not hold it either way it stays in the neutral position. I do not know if it is specific for a log splitter.
J_J
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If the valve does not detent in the retract mode, and return to neutral, it is not a log splitter valve.
Have you done anything with the relief setting? Even with a gage in the system, it only indicates what the pressure is at that time. I can not see that 800 psi would bog down the engine.
It appears that when enough resistance is met, for what ever reason, splitting a log, or holding the lever in full extend or retract, the pump is causing the engine to stall.
It really dose not make much sense where the engine stalls when the pressure gets to 800 psi. A good pump will continue to pump, until it exceeds the limits of the pump. What should happen is the relief in the valve if set correctly, will relieve the excess pressure, and the gage will show the usable pressure.
Did you or someone else turn the relief screw? Does the valve even have a relief valve. Can you take a close up picture of the valve, all sides. Is there a name or model number on the valve?
If the pump is worn, the designed pressure will not be met.
I had a worn pump, and could only lift half or the rated weight. Checked out the valve, and the external relief valve, then changed out the pump, and everything works as advertised.
If you only knew the designed pump pressure.
Have you done anything with the relief setting? Even with a gage in the system, it only indicates what the pressure is at that time. I can not see that 800 psi would bog down the engine.
It appears that when enough resistance is met, for what ever reason, splitting a log, or holding the lever in full extend or retract, the pump is causing the engine to stall.
It really dose not make much sense where the engine stalls when the pressure gets to 800 psi. A good pump will continue to pump, until it exceeds the limits of the pump. What should happen is the relief in the valve if set correctly, will relieve the excess pressure, and the gage will show the usable pressure.
Did you or someone else turn the relief screw? Does the valve even have a relief valve. Can you take a close up picture of the valve, all sides. Is there a name or model number on the valve?
If the pump is worn, the designed pressure will not be met.
I had a worn pump, and could only lift half or the rated weight. Checked out the valve, and the external relief valve, then changed out the pump, and everything works as advertised.
If you only knew the designed pump pressure.
glastron23
Silver Member
several questions... does the engine governor kick in when the engine starts to bog down?? if the motor has been sitting they have a habit of seizing up.
Next .. is the pressure gauge working properly??
Third ... is the PR working???
like you said, it doesn't make since that 800 psi brings down the engine and that the unit is so slow, even at 800 psi with no load it should be up to speed
Next .. is the pressure gauge working properly??
Third ... is the PR working???
like you said, it doesn't make since that 800 psi brings down the engine and that the unit is so slow, even at 800 psi with no load it should be up to speed
Brad_Blazer
Veteran Member
Sounds like you want a different pump anyhow. Here's another source for the 16gpm pump JJ linked to. They will ship to the nearest store for free.
Haldex Hydraulic Pump — 16 GPM, 2-Stage, Model# 1001507 | Pumps | Northern Tool + Equipment
Haldex Hydraulic Pump — 16 GPM, 2-Stage, Model# 1001507 | Pumps | Northern Tool + Equipment
Thanks guys, ya'll are great. I put up some pictures of the unit for reference. I do not know if the pressure release works or not. I have never changed any settings only installed filter, cleaned and filled hyd. tank, had a shop go through the motor, and had the cylinder redone because it was pouring fluid out on the return stroke. The pump is rated for 2500 psi. Here it is:
Amazon.com: Parker D22AA2A 0.522 4.1 Gpm Sae Aa Parker Gear Pump-D Series: Industrial & Scientific
The CVA-200 Energy valve is as close as I could find. I did not take it off to see any numbers on the bottom side but it looks the same.
http://www.energymfg.com/pdf/16445x.pdf
I have not been able to take the so called plug out that is above the return port to see if there is an adjustment inside. I can't get it to turn. If the pressure release is not working, or does'nt have one, would that cause the cylinder to stop at 800 psi?
Amazon.com: Parker D22AA2A 0.522 4.1 Gpm Sae Aa Parker Gear Pump-D Series: Industrial & Scientific
The CVA-200 Energy valve is as close as I could find. I did not take it off to see any numbers on the bottom side but it looks the same.
http://www.energymfg.com/pdf/16445x.pdf
I have not been able to take the so called plug out that is above the return port to see if there is an adjustment inside. I can't get it to turn. If the pressure release is not working, or does'nt have one, would that cause the cylinder to stop at 800 psi?
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J_J
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If the pressure relief is set to 800 psi, any pressure over that is relieved to tank.
You have so many unknowns, that is rather hard to jump on a cause. It is the wrong valve for a log splitter anyway.
You have so many unknowns, that is rather hard to jump on a cause. It is the wrong valve for a log splitter anyway.
J_J
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What is the letter stamped above the port with the slotted plug? If it is a T, then that is your tank port. The slotted port might be a relief valve, but a PRV is normally close to the IN port. I also see that you are using a galvanized fitting for the tee for the gage. That is not recommended. But then again, this might be a low pressure log splitter.
Picture #7
Looking closer at what I thought was a slot, looks like a crack in the plug and port. Anybody else see this?
Picture #7
Looking closer at what I thought was a slot, looks like a crack in the plug and port. Anybody else see this?
Leejohn
Elite Member
The pump looks newer then the rest and I would make sure you are turning it at the right RPM. Some of those oil engines with the oil sumps different then the engine, the out put shaft didn't turn the same as the engine. Make sure it's 1 to 1 and the RPM is 2000 +. If the reliel valve spring is broke, I think I would just another valve and not chock down the intake & return. It looks like someone has tried to get to the relief valve apart before.
You could work 1/2 day just getting the plug out and still might not get a spring for it. The pump if you can get a seal kit for it. Take it apart and lap in the face plates, if the gears are good and I bet they are. You might have to lap a little on the gear faces.
You could work 1/2 day just getting the plug out and still might not get a spring for it. The pump if you can get a seal kit for it. Take it apart and lap in the face plates, if the gears are good and I bet they are. You might have to lap a little on the gear faces.
J_J
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After look at the pdf of the valve, that is a relief valve. I believe the body of the valve is cracked, including the relief seat, and most of the fluid is bypassing internally. I am surprised that the valve is not leaking externally. The pictorial in the pdf shows a bolt for the relief, and your valve has a flat face plug.The relief is factory set to 2000 psi, but can be adjusted
Can you clean the valve off and take a picture from the top of the valve.
Can you clean the valve off and take a picture from the top of the valve.
I attached more pictures of the valve with it cleaned with a wire brush. The water is from rain. The "crack" that you see is a flat faced plug that has a slit across the diameter of the plug the same as a flat headed type screw. The valve is not leaking anywhere from the body or connections. I do not have anything thin enough, and wide enough, that will turn the plug without twisting. WD-40 has not helped. If the relief under the plug, according to the pdf diagram, is not functioning properly then a new valve will be on the way.
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J_J
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The PRV adjustment is 400 to 2500 psi, so yes, someone could have set it to 800 psi. If you can't get to the relief, Your only option is to replace the valve with a $69.95 log splitter valve from Surplus Hydraulics , that has detent on thr return stroke.
You might can take a Dremel tool and deepen the slot on the plug, and soak it in penetrating oil, or use a screw driver and tap on the perimeter of the plug and see if it will loosen. That is just a cap screw, so you could perhaps drill it out. If you look at the parts break down, you can see what is under the cap
You might can take a Dremel tool and deepen the slot on the plug, and soak it in penetrating oil, or use a screw driver and tap on the perimeter of the plug and see if it will loosen. That is just a cap screw, so you could perhaps drill it out. If you look at the parts break down, you can see what is under the cap
SPYDERLK
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Yes. Make a divit on the perimeter of the plug somewhere away from the slot. Use a drift punch in the divit to drive it CCW [punch delivers much more impulse force than a screwdriver]. I say this because you might split the plug by forcing it using the slot.
larry
Leejohn
Elite Member
Try a impact driver with a big flat blade screwdive bit.
