logging winch

[6sunset6]

I think I started this before but cannot find it. whatever.
Want a way to pull logs out of the woods. I have a wet woodland with a woods road , 6 " of fill on geotextile, that I have started around the perimeter. I cannot drive off the road bed , permanent trenches everywhere if I did. I could rig up a snatch block on a tree and pull down the road , but it is tedious with a lot of walking back and forth. I have a Warn 8000 # winch with a 12 vdc motor on it, only powered one way. Here is the plan.
7gpm at 2200 psi on a remote. bungy cord the handle back. Now I have flow.
Use a Vickers 12vdc double coil OC motor valve (see attached) to control a hyd motor on the winch . ( still a challange) . Use a two channel Muticode gate opener, 12vdc to control the Vickers ( see attached) Mount it all on a carry all. I sent a note off to Warn asking them what the rpm and developed torque is on the motor. ( see attached). I bought the unit in 1970, be interesting to see what they say. I really only need to see the input rpm and I can turn it for a while and figuire it out. I pulled the motor today and the armature shaft is integral with a spur gear and bearing on the end. I am really annoyed because this is the second motor on this winch , having replaced it probably 25 years ago and threw out the old one , it was frozen solid. The gear is with in industry standards but not commercially available. Which leaves me with the option of cutting it out of a perfectly good motor assembly. Which I will never use but still. I can use a gas engine to SAE A adapter for the hyd motor and then make an adapter for the winch housing to hold the stub shaft in place. IT will be metric 25mm and the hyd motor will be 1" but Lovejoy makes both end and McMaster Carr carries them.
I ordered the multicode units to play with but will not order anything else till I figuie out what motor I need. It's all flow,psi and torque and how fast the wire comes in. Following post has Warn .pdf

 

[6sunset6]

The Vickers valve needs a base plate and connectors.
A lot of welding on the carry all of course. Ahh Warn .pdf exceeds 1 meg
I will try a .zip Save the .zip to open it

 

[rdbrumfield]

This what I put together. It has a koenig 8000lb unit. Is a bit slow with the large hyd motor though, but at least it pulls. I can pull several up, chain to hooks that are welded to the frame, pick up the ends and go.
You could use a milemarker, they use less gpm and have a high low gearing. To build another one that is the way I would go. I just happened to have this unit on hand.
The upper link is able to reach the ground to pick with the tongs, or remove the tongs and put a pulley on to run the winch line through as it will help rairlead the cable onto the winch. This part can be removed and you can see the other attachment for the top link of the tractor. It also has the hitch reciever at the bottom for a ball, hook, pintle, to be used as needed. A good addition to any tractor.

 

[MossRoad]

I could rig up a snatch block on a tree and pull down the road , but it is tedious with a lot of walking back and forth. I have a Warn 8000 # winch ...

Interesting project. I have a few comments. Not being negative or critical, just throwing them out to ponder.

You want to convert your electric winch to a hydraulic winch and then use a gate opener to control it. The problem with a gate opener is it sends one momentary signal to the motor to open it. You push the button, it sends the signal, then it runs and runs until the gate either hits a limit switch or over torques the motor, then it stops. So, if you start your winch, it will continue to run until you stop it. What happens when your battery croaks after you hit send? What happens when your leg gets caught on a log and you drop the remote? What happens if you simply get out of range and it cannot receive the stop signal? See what I'm getting at?

You need to figure in some sort of DEAD MAN CONTROL that only allows the winch to operate as long as you hold down a button. It needs to stop if it loses the continuous signal from the remote.

You will still have to walk into the woods to attach the cable to the logs and you will still have to walk out of the woods to detach the logs. So why not just stand next to the tractor and operate the winch from there?

 

[Treemonkey1000]

I agree with Mossroad that you need to be able to shut things down in a hurry. Using a garage remote would work but it would take some dialing it in to get a safe system. You might do a Google on used Hydraulic winches like this site.Marine Hydraulics, Hydraulic Deck Machinery, Used Equipment, Winches & Capstans.
If you can rig up a large enough drum with cable you can make longer hauls. Skidding logs can grab and bind into the ground which can break things. If you are pulling from one area set up a pulley on a pole or tree to lift them up a bit. Hydraulic will beat out a DC winch pretty much hands down once you get it connected.
Sitting in the seat of your tractor winching in logs isn't a safe idea either if a cable breaks.. So there you would need a very strong screen on the back. Or better yet don't be in the same direction as the log being pulled. In other words go through a pulley at 90 degrees from the log.

 

[MossRoad]

Don't some of the logging winches have ropes to control the hydraulics? You stand off to the side at an angle and operate the valves by pulling the ropes. You are out of the cable path if it snaps.

 

[6sunset6]

I am only using the receiver part of the gate opener . Hold the button down and the relay closes, let it go and the relay opens. one button for spool in and the other for spool out. The vickers valve draws 3.5 amps and the tractor engine has to run for the hydraulics. So the amp draw is not even a headlight. Stand off to the side when running it. These tranmitters/ receivers seem to work at 150 ft suppossed to be line of sight only . I can't see my winch line being longer than that. A kill switch would be a good idea and releasing the bungy cord would do that or turning off the tractor.
I think the 7gpm is a little low. Worst comes to worst I will put the dc motor back in the winch and run the winch and see how fast it goes , measure the current loaded and unloaded and work it backwards to the hydraulic motor. I cannot run the DC motor on the bench the bearing by the spur gear locates the shaft end when it is all assembled. All comments appreciated, don't worry about that. I am trying to keep this below $500.
My wife , who really likes me ,said how much are real ones?

 

[Dead Horse]

yes, even the big Farmi's are built that way with both the clutch and brake control on lanyards off to the side of the tractor.

When I have to do a pull that is 90 degrees from the angle of the winch base, I chain a slider to a tree (nearly) straight back from the winch base, or use a large open sided block to affect the same result. The key is to avoid kinking the cable.

Walking to and from the pull site is a fact of life, especially when pulling through woods, around stumps, large rocks.

Running a winch remotely sounds risky to me. My farmi is strong enough to pull my tractor over sideways (which is why you should always rig to pull straight back). Plus pulling through the woods can bring down "widow makers". I don't want to be any where except a couple of feet from my tractor when doing a pull

When I start a pull, I watch the cable at the winch head........... not the piece I am pulling. You need to react quickly to a hang up..... watching the cable gets you there faster.

Just my 2 cents, from plenty of pulls out of the forest.

 

[jimgerken]

I can't help with your project but have a couple questions since we seem to have a few experienced winch operators "on the line". Are the Farmi winches PTO operated? It seems to me that the easiest and most efficient way to get pulling power is use PTO shaft power, add a clutch to engage when I pull a rope from 10 feet away and to the side of the tractor, when clutch is released (spring loaded), the spool goes into free-wheel mode so I can pull out the cable to hook it up to the log. The way I am imagining it (for all I know about it), it is an all-mechanical system with no conversion to hydraulics, electrcal controls involvement, etc.
I am using 45 feet of chain to rescue logs and large branches now, and have dreamed of a simple winch system, but don't want to spend any money on it so would want to put something together from parts. Silo unloaders had a couple hundred foot spool of cable on a hand-run winch.

 

[6sunset6]

Dead Horse makes some good comments and a lot of sense. I am also having a big problem with cutting up a perfectly good electric winch to get the motor drive gear. I should just sell the whole thing and buy a hydraulic winch. I can run it standing along side the tractor for all the safety reasons.
Mile marker has a good one for $1100 6000# 2 speed, that would run well at 7gpm. I thought I could sell mine for $500 but then I saw Mile Marker had a brand new one for that.
Guess I need to find a buyer who does not have internet.
Yes running something off the PTO would be the best way , just like the commercial ones but fairly complicated to build from scrap parts. Hard to make it safe. But then again it all depends on the scrap pile and what you are good at.

 

[Dead Horse]

The Fransgarrd and Farmi winches are exactly as you describe.

I use a 12,500 # winch and it is an ANIMAL!

The Hesston 100 90 it runs off of is 22.000#

1,500 rpms is more than enough and the winch cannot stall the big Italian beast! What a pair of working machines!

 

[6sunset6]

Given I would have to chop up a perfectly good electric winch motor I thought about the option of just driving down the road with the cable running through a snatch block for direction, as someone suggested. With some fancy dodads for just winding up the cable. like a hyd motor to wind ,say a tire rim, and a pin to lock it. Pull, un pin , back up and spool in, pin and drive. Issue is the weight of the tractor . mine is a little over 3000#. I think I would spin the tires on the pull. Unless I cut the logs shorter if it happened. Hmm This may be a really low cost solution. Still using my remote set up and the vickers valve allows me to unspool amd walk out with the line. rolling it up while backing down keeps from driving over it pinning the tire rim allows repull.
I think I would gat a length of Amsteel blue for the winch line.
What do you guys think of this.

 

[Dead Horse]

Risky as ****, unless the cable can handle ALL of the power of your tractor. You get a hang up and snap a cable and you are in for the experience of your (short) life. Either use chains and your loader with chain hooks welded on or get a real logging winch... You can also weld chain hooks to a tow bar slung between your lower links and do your pulls that way........

all of these methods are vastly safer than the rigs you are conjuring up!

 

[6sunset6]

I can't buy a real one . Rick Wallace mentioned he had a small one for $2999 He is probably 2 hrs from me but it is still too much for once in a while logging. I have decided to go with the Mile Marker H9000. Hydraulic 2 speed. I found one for $620 including shipping. Weighs 88#. There are tradeoffs of course Comes with 100ft of 3/8 aircraft wire. Probably ok but if I want to go longer I can use Amsteel 5/16 min working load is 12,300# .150ft will fit on the drum. I will build my own controls , I got the gate opener unit the other day and after going through the usual disconnect between hardware and translated down level docs, it works exactly as it is supposed to. Hold one button down and a relay contact closes until you let it up. Hold the other button down and the other relay closes until you let that one go. Receiver runs on 12vdc and realy contacts are rated for 10a even though they spec in the literature 5a.
I heard the comments about staying near the tractor or in it when winching. Makes sense to me. I will also add a saftey screen to the rig. I think I can keep the whole thing under $1000.

 

[6sunset6]

Mile Marker winch will be here Monday. Assuming I like what I see I will order a vickers 12vdc motor valve and base plate from Burden as well as a double cushion valve and a flow control valve. . A back up alarm to go with winching in. 1500 psi and 3.5 gpm are the operating limits for the winch. 2 speed winch.
I will modify a carry all for winch /controls mounting, drag anchor, slot bar for drag chains and a couple of tool boxes for chain saw, chains , snatch block,etc.
If I get it done before the frost is out of the ground I will be winching next years firewood out of the woods.

 

[GRNMAPLE]

I am also considering a logging winch, but i am leaning toward a PTO powered 3 PT hitch.
I have looked at FARMI, Norse, &Wallenstein, does anyone have any input about any of these winches?
I plan on doing lot clearing and woods mantainiance.

 

[Chilly807]

I'm saving my pennies until I can get a proper logging winch, they're designed to do the job as safely as possible. A Norse 290 is about $2300 CDN brand spanking new, with cable, chokers, etc.

20 years down the road, I'll sell it for about half what I paid for it, maybe more by then. To me, having the use of it for that long is worth the money.

Until then I'll do what I've done in the past, rig a snatch block up in a tree roadside, and drive down the road with either the ATV or tractor. The walking does me good actually, and it isn't much. Once the log is out where I can get at it, you just back up straddling the rope or cable, unhook the log, and walk back in to hook up the next one. Unless you're cutting a lot of wood, or really big stuff, this works just fine.

Chilly

 

[eanjay]

I am also considering a logging winch, but i am leaning toward a PTO powered 3 PT hitch.
I have looked at FARMI, Norse, &Wallenstein, does anyone have any input about any of these winches?
I plan on doing lot clearing and woods mantainiance.

I have a small Farmi on a MF1523and it works great. With a 3 ton pull and a 160ft of cable I have pulled the whole tree to roadside, or with sliders and choke chains, gathered-up 3-4 logs at a time and hauled those out. A snatch-block makes it easy to pull logs out from behind stumps, or pull round corners or out of gullies etc.

Works just as advertised - a real 'slick rig'.

EanJay

 

[SFish]

GRNMAPLE:

Like eanjay I have the small Farmi, but on a JD 3320, and have had similar good experiences with it. It pulls much faster than most electric winches and the dozer design makes the tractor self belaying. The remote rope operated clutch is adjusted to slip under maximum pull so it can't be overloaded. I have done a lot of work with it.

Steve

 

[Chilly807]

Anybody have the 290 Norse? I've been wishful of one of those for a while.

Chilly