M59 hydraulics got slow and weak.

[TBarD]

Finally got around to removing the backhoe today; used the grading scraper on the 3pt to level some ground. Works great except that it does not like rocks! Maybe I will be able to justify that rock bucket after all.

This thread has been an education for me. One of the things I wonder is if all our M59s work about the same and the difference is just in expectations? Or is there a real difference in the swings?

I think my swing strength and rate is about right for our machine; others could use more. But is the difference real or perception? I wonder if there is a simple way to compare swings? The Operator's Manual for the Kubota BT1200 Backhoe says to run the hoe with the engine at between 75% and full rated RPM after the oil is up to temperature... and to run at 50% before then. Frankly I run mine at about 50% or maybe less most of the time. The manual also says that swing cycle time is 2.1 seconds measured from 90 degrees to center. I'll measure mine if I can figure out an easy way to do it.
rScotty

Ok it does sound like there is some actual problem. I had about convinced myself that the swing was just a poor machine design but on mine it takes way more than 2 seconds to swing the hoe 90 deg (more like 10 or more), and no way can it push a large rock or swing the back end of the tractor over a trench like it should. So this gives me incentive to look for a real fix. Maybe it will be better once I mount the hoe back on the tractor and cycle everything, we will see.

I am still working the high pressure moly grease into one of my swing bearings. As you say, I try to load it in various directions and force some more in. It is gradually improving. Have to try it again with the hoe off, as there should be little force on the swing bearings with it resting on the ground

I am running SUDT2 in mine since I serviced it last fall. No problems aside from the swing, although it does rattle a bit when cold, for 30sec or so. I suspect the swing problem is something else.

Re removing the backhoe - turned out to be pretty easy. I had to do it on the ground though, so we will see how hard it is to reconnect. What took all the time was not removing the backhoe, but removing the 3pt hitch from the stow position on the side of the tractor! This took most of the afternoon. It had no doubt not been touched since the tractor was new, the pins were tight and there was some rust. It is ok now, but no way will I stow it back on the tractor when I reinstall the hoe.

 

[TBarD]

Ok it does sound like there is some actual problem. I had about convinced myself that the swing was just a poor machine design but on mine it takes way more than 2 seconds to swing the hoe 90 deg (more like 10 or more), and no way can it push a large rock or swing the back end of the tractor over a trench like it should. So this gives me incentive to look for a real fix. Maybe it will be better once I mount the hoe back on the tractor and cycle everything, we will see.

Success!! After removing and reinstalling the backhoe the swing is what I would expect! It now moves fast, and has real hydraulic force; I can lift the back of the tractor and reposition the whole tractor with the hoe (throw it around for that matter if I am not careful). I suspect the problem was the directional lever which switches the swing circuit between the 3pt and backhoe positions. With the hoe off I worked the two levers back and forth a number of times and made especially sure that the one for the swing was fully pushed in. Probably the directional valve for the swing was not fully actuated and leaking a bit, dumping flow to the return.

Reinstalling the backhoe is easy enough, once one gets things lined up.

So now the M59 is back to being the near perfect all-around TLB, powerful enough for what one needs to do, but still light enough to tow. I have not had any problems with SUDT2 foaming or whatever, at least so far with my machine. After a couple of hours of use the cylinders are hot to the touch, but only maybe 110 or so.

 

[rScotty]

Success!! After removing and reinstalling the backhoe the swing is what I would expect! It now moves fast, and has real hydraulic force; I can lift the back of the tractor and reposition the whole tractor with the hoe (throw it around for that matter if I am not careful). I suspect the problem was the directional lever which switches the swing circuit between the 3pt and backhoe positions.

Hooray! That is great! Now be careful with that swing, now TbarD....since it sounds like it is working as designed, that means it's got some serious force and speed. These M59s sure have a strong backhoe.
Sometimes when I've got the bucket hooked on something sturdy it feels like the hoe just might be able to lift the whole tractor up in the air. Just like the story of Strong Muldoon who would put his finger in a knot hole and just hold himself out at arm's length like a flag in the wind.....

I now think that moving the directional lever is what had to have fixed mine last week. Can't think of what else it could have been. There was a mysterious day when it would only swing in one direction, and then after I inspected everything and pushed and pulled on things and bounced it around it suddenly started working again. If I somehow bumped the directional lever, that's three of us now in the last month who have had M59 swing problems fixed by simply repositioning the directional levers.

Can't ask for much better than that.
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

BTW, after posting that long oil rant yesterday I got to thinking that it wasn't helping anyone to keep beating the same drum and singing the same songs, so I gave that posting a severe edit... it's civilized now.

And along that line, maybe we ought to start a new M59 thread about what's RIGHT with our machines.
Matter of fact, I'll do that right now.
rScotty

 

[mike69440]

Re: M59 hydraulics got slow and weak. Now My L39 is doing same after fire?

Success!! After removing and reinstalling the backhoe the swing is what I would expect! It now moves fast, and has real hydraulic force; I can lift the back of the tractor and reposition the whole tractor with the hoe (throw it around for that matter if I am not careful). I suspect the problem was the directional lever which switches the swing circuit between the 3pt and backhoe positions. With the hoe off I worked the two levers back and forth a number of times and made especially sure that the one for the swing was fully pushed in. Probably the directional valve for the swing was not fully actuated and leaking a bit, dumping flow to the return.

Reinstalling the backhoe is easy enough, once one gets things lined up.

So now the M59 is back to being the near perfect all-around TLB, powerful enough for what one needs to do, but still light enough to tow. I have not had any problems with SUDT2 foaming or whatever, at least so far with my machine. After a couple of hours of use the cylinders are hot to the touch, but only maybe 110 or so.

I got my L39 back after the fire.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/247095-l39-electrical-fire-bad-but.html

After repair,
Fuel gage reads 3/4 full with full tank,

MPH/KPH does not indicate speed.

But the worst thing is my once relatively mighty L39 swing is acting just like your M59's symptoms, i.e. Slow & very weak force in the swing.
Where is this directional lever? I never had my BH off.

 

[TBarD]

Re: M59 hydraulics got slow and weak. Now My L39 is doing same after fire?

I got my L39 back after the fire.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/247095-l39-electrical-fire-bad-but.html

After repair,
Fuel gage reads 3/4 full with full tank,

MPH/KPH does not indicate speed.

But the worst thing is my once relatively mighty L39 swing is acting just like your M59's symptoms, i.e. Slow & very weak force in the swing.
Where is this directional lever? I never had my BH off.

Hi - Bummer about these things not reading right. Given the bundle of wires I saw I am not surprised of anyone outside of the factory would have a hard time getting it all wired back up correctly. Given the shop manual it might be possible to fix these things, although since they are fairly minor it may not be worth it.

The L39 also has these directional levers (I have the operators manual for the L39 as well as for the M59). If you look behind the seat there should be a platform (where your feet go with the seat reversed) which swings up. Below you will see the 3pt hitch, pto, and three quick disconnects for the backhoe to the right. Above all this there are two levers, left and right, with a 90 degree bend in them pointing down. These need to be pushed in fully for the backhoe. The one on the left is for the swing. There should probably be instructions printed on the tractor housing explaining this, at least I think there are on mine. Just exercise at least the left one a few times, in and out, and leave it fully pushed in. That worked for me at least!

 

[rScotty]

Re: M59 hydraulics got slow and weak. Now My L39 is doing same after fire?

here are two levers, left and right, with a 90 degree bend in them pointing down. These need to be pushed in fully for the backhoe. The one on the left is for the swing. There should probably be instructions printed on the tractor housing explaining this, at least I think there are on mine. Just exercise at least the left one a few times, in and out, and leave it fully pushed in. That worked for me at least!

Great description. I'll add that exercising and pushing them in also worked for mine. Glad you got the L39 back operating. These big Kubotas continue to be a sort of little known "cult" machine. As TbarD says, they are light enough to tow (just), and big enough to do real work.
Only thing I would add is that the oem factory workshop manuals have a way of not being available forever. Expensive, but nice to have.
rScotty

 

[mike69440]

As I lose things like manuals, I learned to make a .pdf and right there on page 46 if I remember correctly are the two levers.

All they have to be is pulled out a 1/4" and the BH functions go down the toilet. Anyway Pushing in those pesky levers got the BH all fixed and the dealer will pick up tractor next week to get the Intellipanel functions looked at. The self leveler lever is stuck too; probably rusted sitting outside at the dealer for 2 Months.

PS I could use at least a M59 for this work.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-worlds-strongest-kubota-bucket-custom-2.html

 

[TBarD]

As I lose things like manuals, I learned to make a .pdf and right there on page 46 if I remember correctly are the two levers.

All they have to be is pulled out a 1/4" and the BH functions go down the toilet. Anyway Pushing in those pesky levers got the BH all fixed and the dealer will pick up tractor next week to get the Intellipanel functions looked at. The self leveler lever is stuck too; probably rusted sitting outside at the dealer for 2 Months.

PS I could use at least a M59 for this work.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-worlds-strongest-kubota-bucket-custom-2.html

Well after at least three of us had this problem, the first thing to check if there are problems with the backhoe hydraulics will be the directional levers (although it doesn't sound like this was the problem Hersheyfarm was having at the start of this thread - I would check though, it could be related!).

I haven't had a problem with the self leveler lever yet, but the loader hydraulic master disconnect lever/switch is stuck (on, fortunately), and the front aux on/off push button is also stuck in the on position. Since it is all on, everything works and I will wait until the off season to fix these things. It appears that the loader lever controls need some regular maintenance and probably need to be kept covered if possible during storage.

That is a big rock you have in the bucket! I can confirm that the M59 can handle a full pallet of block which is probably even a bit heavier. I just had 35 pallets of block delivered for a retaining wall. They are about 3K lbs each. The M59 has no problem lifting and moving them, although it is a bit light in the back even with the backhoe on. I could spin the rear tires on a grade when carrying a pallet, making it necessary to engage the front axle.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Is there anyway to keep the m59 hydro oil from being infused with air? I think its a big problem of mine. My tractor starts off digging good but loses power after it is worked(still!) So I took a small sample of fluid after being used and put it in a clear plastic container. It was milky with air. After it set a couple of days it was normal looking, no air. So the foaming has to be bad. I am running the new synthetic Kubota fluid. Maybe change to new fluid?