Massey Ferguson 1740M Hydro: LOSS OF POWER when hot!

[TopSpeed1]

@FrankJG and others... Throughout this thread plus the mytractorforum thread, injectors have been mentioned several times including by myself, but we never had a definitive dealer conclusion. We kinda did, but that owner had two things done including injectors, so we never could pinpoint it, and to the fact that owner was apparently happy and never reported back. So that was a dead end basically, but left some hope I guess.

I think the driving of your tractor 15 miles (and then back home again I assume after) is pretty impressive from a owners perspective.

Crossing my fingers!

 

[FrankJG]

I work for an excavation company and they were supposed to took care of transport for me, finally too much last minute machinery move made transport impossible before dealer closing hour.

Didn't have much time left before warranty end so decide to road it saturday morning. 15 miles on secondary rural roads wasn't that bad took me about an hour and a half.

I told them to check the turbo too, since an other user on other forum mentionned that they changed it on his tractor.

I have close to 900 hours on the 1740 and loved it so far. Hoping everything going to get fixed but my trust on the machine dropped a lot.

 

[DarkBlack]

I wouldn’t have suspected injectors, as usually one is bad , not all 4 , or not even 3 of 4 at the exact same time. I also didn’t suspect injectors because you said it takes like 40 minutes of running to a full hot engine and coolant. I wouldn’t expect any major temperature change of injectors happening after running so long. Strange if they think all 4 injectors have the same temperature defect, and they all drop out at the same time. You’d think they would find 1 or 2 dropping out.
One ECU driving the injection would make sense, but all the individual injectors?
Interesting, if it proves correct

 

[TopSpeed1]

Ok, I get the fact that injectors and extended run times with heat is or was a reach....
BUT!, when I first contacted my dealer about the problem, I talked with the mechanic (right in the shop area) and the first words he said was "injectors I'm thinking, there is a recall on some MF models and power failure when hot is caused when the injector gets hot it doesn't compress or mist the fuel efficiently anymore". He also said that basically the fuel is being squirted vs. misted creating poor combustion.

Ok, sounded reasonable. He then said the recall is by model and serial number. So on my 1740M's visit back in the early Spring, either my serial number didn't match the recall, (and/or) they couldn't recreate the issue. The later I know is true because when they said they couldn't get the tractor to go into the lower power/ higher heat and work load mode.... he said they had the tractor on for like 30 minutes. Not even sure this was under a good load like mowing?. A dyno would of done the trick, but they do not have a dyno

So injectors was my dealers lead mechanics first intuition, way before even having the unit in front of him. Could it still be the Turbo or something else, sure! Just want to put out there my dealers mechanics first words when I told him the problem of losing power when extended and heated workloads.

PS; In these (Late October) 40F to 50F days, I can mow 2 hours (and more) with no power loss. Those prior hot summer days along with the Air Conditioner on is really what kicks this problem into motion (or lack of).

TWT, and I think I would have this solved already if my dealer just had a load dyno.

 

[FrankJG]

So my tractor is back from the dealer. Basically what they did is put the tractor on the dyno and observed a drop in engine power after the tractor reached higher temperature. PTO hp dropped from 30 to 20 hp.

They first changed both fuel filters put it on the dyno again, same results. Test injectors concluded they were the problem. Changed them and put the tractor on the dyno again with no dropped in hp this time.

I asked them if they changed the design of the injectors, they told me the part number didnt changed from the initial factory design. Therefore they put in the same injectors of before. Guy at the service told me theres a technical note on the part but couldn't really explained in detail what it was or mean.

I really liked the machine so far but i'll probably trade it for something else since a lot of other person had the same problems on here and other forums. They reinstall the same injectors design that were at problem with a technical note on them.

This repair would have cost me over 8000 $ CAD if done out of warranty. So I don't know if i'll take the risk to have the same problem in a few years. My tractor is an important equipment for my 35 acres lot (Snow removal, logging, firewood, sawmill, bushogging and a lot of dirt work). I bought it new to have a peace of mind and be in control of the maintenance from the start, which I did religiously, but it still failed on me.

 

[Yander]

Thanks a bunch for replying Frank, that's not good news but at least it is something to go off of. I will likely see about getting mine looked at this winter and if it is the same thing, I'll probably do exactly as you are. I'll be buying Yanmar if I get rid of the MF.

 

[TopSpeed1]

@FrankJG
Yes, Thank You for updating us on that. I'm interested that if in your real life usage (again) it really appears to be solved, so please keep us updated.

My warranty is now out, but, this issue was documented (and in shop) while still in warranty and they did or could not resolve and fix it. So this should be a carry over issue with my tractor.

I think my biggest gripe besides the same injectors for the replacement as you mentioned, would be the fact that this is now broad spread (enpough) that Agco/MF isn't addressing it as a recall, at least net yet. So as my mechanic told me early on when I first met with him about this issue; just before early Spring of '24, he stated right away "might be the injectors and I think there is a recall by model and serial number". He went on telling me that (when hot working load temps) the fuel doesn't get vaporized or misted into the cylinders in an efficient manor to make the top end HP of the engine.

-KJ Miller

 

[JWR]

So my tractor is back from the dealer. Basically what they did is put the tractor on the dyno and observed a drop in engine power after the tractor reached higher temperature. PTO hp dropped from 30 to 20 hp.

They first changed both fuel filters put it on the dyno again, same results. Test injectors concluded they were the problem. Changed them and put the tractor on the dyno again with no dropped in hp this time.

I asked them if they changed the design of the injectors, they told me the part number didnt changed from the initial factory design. Therefore they put in the same injectors of before. Guy at the service told me theres a technical note on the part but couldn't really explained in detail what it was or mean.

I really liked the machine so far but i'll probably trade it for something else since a lot of other person had the same problems on here and other forums. They reinstall the same injectors design that were at problem with a technical note on them.

This repair would have cost me over 8000 $ CAD if done out of warranty. So I don't know if i'll take the risk to have the same problem in a few years. My tractor is an important equipment for my 35 acres lot (Snow removal, logging, firewood, sawmill, bushogging and a lot of dirt work). I bought it new to have a peace of mind and be in control of the maintenance from the start, which I did religiously, but it still failed on me.

Seems to me this injector issue has finally been nailed as THE problem. Having heard the same symptoms on multiple brands of tractors I wonder if the common culprit is the injectors AND are these injectors from a common source for multiple brands? Frank, being an injector issue not the tractor or tractor brand per se, I would not be switching horses to some other brand just yet. Surely much more will come out over time. This has to be an industry issue rather than a tractor brand issue and must be a big topic in several company boardrooms.

 

[FrankJG]

I don't know if these injectors are from a common source for multiple brands of tractors. Maybe it's just mental, but having a black cloud in my mind of a possible 8k repair in 4-5 years bugs me a bit.

@TopSpeed1
I don't know if colder temperature will offset a possible issue, but from now to end of the year i'll work the tractor quite a bit with my logging winch. I will give update if something happen. After that will be snowblowing season.

 

[Soto]

hello everyone, about 3 weeks ago I found out that my tractor was still under warranty so I took it to a dealer shop here in Georgia. They called me today to let me know 1 injector was bad but they ended up replacing all 3 injectors and injector lines. All I have to pay is about $600 for new fuel filters and labor for replacing the filters, everything else is covered by the warranty. For those that don’t know the warranty of the tractors is transferable and is for 5 years, I am the second owner of my tractor and I didn’t know the warranty until I called the dealer. I hope you found this information helpful.

 

[ning]

hello everyone, about 3 weeks ago I found out that my tractor was still under warranty so I took it to a dealer shop here in Georgia. They called me today to let me know 1 injector was bad but they ended up replacing all 3 injectors and injector lines. All I have to pay is about $600 for new fuel filters and labor for replacing the filters, everything else is covered by the warranty. For those that don’t know the warranty of the tractors is transferable and is for 5 years, I am the second owner of my tractor and I didn’t know the warranty until I called the dealer. I hope you found this information helpful.

Seems like anyone potentially affected should take their tractor in for a pre-warranty-expiration checkup *ahem* a "my tractor seems down on power can you check the injectors please"

 

[Highwayman64]

Hello, New to the party here! I just seen all of the threads on this loss of power thing going on and I have been experiencing the same issue too. I have a 2016 MF 1740 M with the shuttle shift and 500 hours. I service my tractor very meticulously with all service done as it should be. I never had one issue with my gem until this summer brush hogging and it was a very hot and humid day.
I have not took it back to dealer yet as I have been using it pretty regularly especially this winter blowing snow here in WNY. I will note that I have not had the issue since summer and have really been pushing it hard clearing snow so I agree it's a summer issue while hot. All the symptoms align with your fellow posters here in this thread. I have tried loosening the fuel cap, changing fuel and all filters too. Thanks everyone for the info shared here, I really appreciate it and will be following along here for any updates.

 

[TopSpeed1]

I can push snow all day long, no issues. Change to July heat and mowing for an entirely different story. Told repeatedly above.

Sad it's been this long with no real answer.

 

[JWR]

So did you ever eliminate the injectors as the source of the problem?

 

[TopSpeed1]

So did you ever eliminate the injectors as the source of the problem?

So at this point and time and as much as this has been baffling (to not only myself), I would not eliminate injectors. I can order a set of 3 for about 4G, and if I knew this was definitely going to solve the problem, I would do so. But what a waste if it did not fix the issue and I have 3 injectors (that once installed) cannot be returned. A few have returned blasé posts that this did solve the issue, a few have said it was the turbo.

 

[TopSpeed1]

I should report to the public, I have been in extensive contact (messaging) with a few members of this and other tractor forums. This info in reality should of been posted (instead of private messaging) as some may have learned from this banter.

In a nutshell...
-- I tested the possible fuel tank air-lock and surface wise this was posted. Ruled; This is not the problem.
-- Re-installed new upper and lower fuel filters now 3x within 41 hrs.
-- Changed entire Hydro oil and filter system (shuttle shift owners have also reported this power loss issue) so this was done mainly maintenance wise.
-- I used a laser temp gun and shot extensive heat temps on the diesel fuel and the poly tank. Almost 3 weeks of hard usage in hot temps. The theory was possibly the diesel (fuel) getting too hot to getting compressed inefficiently. BTW, my reads were all 78F-92F ambient temp days- I got 150-160F on the fuel readings; shooting downward in the tank fill hole (cup strainer removed). The outside of the poly fuel tank was quite hot to the touch but read ~140-150F. I did not think this was extravagant, of course I could be wrong as always!
-- I shot temps on the engine block in varying areas including the rail pump, the highest I could get was ~220F. The tractors LCD gauge reads normal 3 bars. The turbo (since this has been noted as to the problem) read on the hot (exhaust) side mostly high 300's, I saw 400F on a few shoots immediately stopping and on the 95F days.
-- I can't find my (field) paper note on the bottom of the oil crankcase. I can remember it as close to the block temps, nothing stood out so I may have just crumpled up that note, sorry.

Anything else I will be happy to test (within my scope). Being a still newish tractor, I'm not willing to rip apart complex parts, I apologize for that, but I also have a life besides a tractor. Peace out and I want to thank everyone so far for all the input and possible theories.

-KJ

 

[JWR]

So at this point and time and as much as this has been baffling (to not only myself), I would not eliminate injectors. I can order a set of 3 for about 4G, and if I knew this was definitely going to solve the problem, I would do so. But what a waste if it did not fix the issue and I have 3 injectors (that once installed) cannot be returned. A few have returned blasé posts that this did solve the issue, a few have said it was the turbo.

Has to be incredibly frustrating! I have not priced injectors but no matter what they do, $4000 for 3 is beyond absurd. I'd think some one has the ability to test the injectors. I'm skeptical that the turbo is at fault given your overall description of the symptoms -- like running the AC in the cab shortens the time to when loss of power occurs. That can't be the turbo. Re-reading your comments it seems that the name of the issue "Loss of power after long run-time" more so than it is heating... as everyone has said, very strange. I'm not so sure that a repair shop/dealer having a dyno would get to the root of the problem (as you have sometimes thought it would.) What makes this one so tough is that it takes so long to produce the symptoms.

I may have said this before (and am too lazy to hunt through 176 posted comments) but I have yet to see a serious issue with a MF tractor that AGCO would not get to the bottom of...I've had a bunch a few years back. The regional service rep is/should be a huge help. And he works for someone to whom the problem can be appealed. In your shoes I'd make myself a permanent nuisance in the AGCO chain demanding that they be involved and find the cause. You have a world of documentation and evidence that you have done far more than due diligence up to this point.

 

[TopSpeed1]

Since this is and has been so puzzling, I would not rule out the turbo, although I do favor injector(s) as my current finger pointer. This is not just a lengthy (time to occur) situation, it is heat related. So as to not cruise through many posts; it does not happen when on the tractor is in the middle of winter when plowing heavy snow, no matter what time or working period. July however is another story, then with a working load, time kicks in this fault as to the related "how soon the power-loss kicks in").

So a turbo being the hottest working part of the tractor, theoretically should not be ruled out. Heat creates friction and metal expansion/contraction so for this part, I will keep it as a possible cause. I agree it's not likely however.

 

[LouNY]

I don't recall has any one relocated or added a fan to cool the ECU.

 

[TopSpeed1]

So Lou, you're thinking the ECU is heating up and possibly kicking in a "limp mode" ?

Does this series tractor even have a limp mode?